Gotta get it off my chest AR-15 vs. Mini-14

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My good friend is dying for a new AR.

Could somebody point him in the direction to get a NIB .223/5.56 AR with front and reasr sights and a mag in the $600 price range.
 
So you are comparing stories from Vietnam to today's mini? What went wrong with your logic portion of your brain?
 
In Vietnam soldiers complained of the M-16s butt stock busting off when they had to go into close quarters.
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I'm fairly certain that materials technology has advanced somewhat in the intervening years. As I said, I've not had issues with breaking stocks, nor seen it happen. Not to say they're indestructible, as anything can and will break if abused. But I've yet to have a problem, and I certainly don't baby my guns.

You are quoting what others do to defend your position, how come I cannot?
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???

The M1 Garand first saw service in 1936 and is still in use in various countries all over the world in some form. The M-16 first saw service in 1964.
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And to what circumstances to you attribute some nations still issuing M1 Garands to their troops? What nations? What troops? What sort of units? What sort of numbers?

I also love the AR folks that say they shoot 2" groups at 250 yards with iron sights.
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If AR's are not accurate, why are they overwhelmingly the choice of all of the people who shoot centerfire rifles competitively? From Service Rifle to National Match to 3Gun and other practical shooting sports, the AR15 is the dominant choice of competitors in every competition where the design is allowed to play.
 
Could somebody point him in the direction to get a NIB .223/5.56 AR with front and reasr sights and a mag in the $600 price range.
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AR's cost more than a Mini. If cost is your primary or only concern, then get a Mini. Otherwise, just realize you're going to have to save your pennies for a bit longer to buy an AR.

You get what you pay for.
 
after I fire 100 rounds in my Mini the bolt and bolt carrier are still clean.
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Where's the bolt carrier on the Mini?

I have both rifles, love both. I'd bet my life on either one. I wish mini mags were $10 though...
 
Hey folks,

Let me jump in on this and tick everyone off. I have hated the M-16/AR-15 since the M-16 replaced the M-14. I had no problem with our going from the Garand's 30-06 to the M-14's .308 Winchester, but when they went to the .22 caliber little toy rifle, that tore the rag off the bush for me. I would rather stick with the M-14 any day.

Now having said that, let me admit that I do not have an M-14 (or civilian variant), but I do have two AR-15s that are both heavy barrel target rifles. I bought both of them during the Clinton war on assault rifles. One is the regular sissy .223 caliber, and the other one has a 7.62X39 Russian caliber upper. I much prefer the .30 caliber rifle, but I had to buy the .223 also just to miff the Clinton folks.

I have been to some hi power shooting events where those heavy target barrel ARs obviously are capable of some fine accuracy. Certainly far better than I am able to do with mine, but my eyes are old, and I never was the best of shooters.

While I do not have a Mini 14, I do have a Ruger Mini 30 in stainless, and I like it just fine. It was a lot less expensive thant the ARs I bought, and while I cannot shoot groups with it as small as the groups from my heavy barrel target ARs, it works just fine for me. And besides, it has a "real" wood stock instead of that Matel plastic stuff on the ARs. I suspect that I am a bit like Stchman in that I just don't like the whole black plastic gun mentality.

I would advise Stchman that I bought a bunch of both plastic and steel magazines for my Mini 30 that work perfectly. I bought them maybe fifteen years ago, and I forget the brand names without looking at them. I also bought a bunch of big magazines for the two ARs at the same time, and they also work perfectly.

I also have several Russian SKS rifles to add to the 7.62X39 mix. Did I mention I like the .30 caliber cartridge? As much as I like the Mini 30, if I had to choose just one of all these rifles, I guess it might be the .30 caliber AR.

I would not, however, argue with the Stchman from MO that the Mini is not a great gun in its own right. For the AR folks who look down on the Ruger Mini, I could remind them there are a lot of other folks with Bushmasters and the like who think Colt ARs are beneath them.

Since I bought the ugly black Colt ARs, I guess I have to like them too, but I still like the brown wood stocked Mini 30, and I still like those Russian rifles.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
 
I also love the AR folks that say they shoot 2" groups at 250 yards with iron sights.
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...... That's actually very possible good reloads, actually there were upper brands that were tested with silver state ammo over at ar15.com...

Noveske
MSTN
WOA
ASI(wssm)
Dtech(wssm)

All of which out to 650 yard could shoot 7-8 inches.. and they were only 16" barrels. Within 350 yards most were sub moa not even reloads.. either. Some varmint uppers will shoot 2" groups at 300 yard..
 
the AR15 is the dominant choice of competitors in every competition where the design is allowed to play.
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Only where semiauto is a necessity or an advantage. The AR can be extremely accurate for a semiauto. It also has extensive parts availability, and it's unique among semiautos in the ease with which the barrel can be floated, with no moving stuff running along the barrel.

The DI design is great for accuracy as well as maintenance, since it's the closest thing to a bolt action that isn't a bolt action.

Anyone who says an AR isn't accurate either can't shoot or has a lemon for a rifle.

The magazines are readily available, and it's easy to get good ones for cheap.

That said, from personal experience, I trust the Mini-14 action to go bang, eject, and feed, particularly when neglected, over the AR. The bullet may only go in the general direction the barrel is pointing, but it will go...:D

That assumes good magazines, and of course that's a BIG fudge...

I guess now Ruger sells mags of various capacities, and I have some, but until recently, I got as many bad-to-mediocre Mini magazines as good ones. Meanwhile, every AR mag I have stuck in the thing has worked perfectly. Unless Ruger gets a big military contract, the Mini won't be able to compete for price, availability and reliability of magazines.

And the way the Ruger mags insert really sucks compared to the STANAG magwell -- another reason for competitive use of the AR. Who wants to fool with the Ruger system under stress?

Competition guns aren't always the best measure of a rifle's field-worthiness either way, though. On the one hand, competitors are seldom far from their range boxes full of tools and lube. On the other, match guns sometimes sacrifice all-out reliability for accuracy, so match guns can be more finicky than their utilitarian counterparts.

One more thing... I think the AR will beat the Mini pretty handily when it comes to longevity. Put 10,000 rounds of 5.56 through both, and I'm betting the AR will be the gun that still works without repairs (as long as it's lubed).:)

I like my Mini for what it does well (handles like a real carbine, points naturally and goes bang even when neglected). But I sure wouldn't want the US military to be issued the things in Iraq or anything. I like my AR for what it does well: hit the target with accuracy sufficient to make shooting it fun, not overheat in 5 rounds, and offer infinite configuration options, should I want them.
 
David, if you prefer a particular rifle just because it's what appeals to you, that's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that.

However, where stchman went wrong is in making a bunch of claims about the AR platform that are demonstrably false, or at least generalities that are blown completely out of proportion.
 
On the one hand, competitors are seldom far from their range boxes full of tools and lube.
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I didn't do any maintenance to my rifle at Rocky Mountain 3 Gun this year, and anyone who was there knows there was a lot of wind whipping up a ridiculous amount of fine-grain grit. My rifle had no jams.

On the other, match guns sometimes sacrifice all-out reliability for accuracy, so match guns can be more finicky than their utilitarian counterparts.
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This is a broad-based generalization. Match guns may not run all forms of ammo as reliably, but it's disingenuous to claim that they have less reliability, at least with their given load. While some forms of competition offer alibi strings to make up for malfunctions, it's a truism that most competitors will not shoot an alibi string as well as a regular string. It's in the competitor's best interest to have a weapon that is completely reliable.

Other forms of competition do not even offer the option of an alibi. At a lot of 3Gun type matches, if your gun breaks, you either fix it on the clock or walk off the line with the stage incomplete and the penalties that go along with it.
 
If you prefer a particular rifle just because it's what appeals to you, that's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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If I could get a Mini-14 that took STANAG magazines, was as accurate as a basic AR, and that I thought would last through tens of thousands of rounds, I'd like it.

As it stands, I can't like it much.:)

All I was saying is that the Mini actually does have its merits. AR fanatics may not acknowledge that fact. The problem is that the whole package is lacking. The AR has its flaws, but the whole package adds up to a very desirable rifle.
 
All I was saying is that the Mini actually does have its merits. AR fanatics may not acknowledge that fact. The problem is that the whole package is lacking. The AR has its flaws, but the whole package adds up to a very desirable rifle.
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If the Mini-14 does what you need it to do, then what else can you ask for?
 
it's disingenuous to claim that they have less reliability, at least with their given load.
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I wasn't claiming that at all. That wasn't my point.

That was just a warning to those who might judge a gun by trying someone's competition piece...

I shoot pistol matches. I can grab one of the High Masters' custom-built 1911s, put standard ammo in it and it might not feed worth crap. Some people think that means the gun is unreliable, but you and I know that it just means that the gun is built for accuracy first, and precisely tailored to work with someone's match load.
 
The only reason I made this thread was the fact that there are a lot of folks out there that make factless, baseless, highly generalized claims about the Mini-14.

I have actually had people at the range asking me why I didn't buy an AR because ARs are so much cooler. Whatever they spent more $$$ to fire .223 ammo.

As far as a previous poster after 10,000 rounds we are talking ORIGINAL parts? I mean AR folks swap out parts like babies need diaper changes.
 
If the Mini-14 does what you need it to do, then what else can you ask for?
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It really doesn't. .223 is a varmint round. I doubt I could trust the Mini-14 to hit a coyote past 75 yards.:D

That's why I haven't shot the thing in a long time, but the ARs get rounds through them.:)

I just can't bring myself to sell the Mini, because there are some things about it that are appealing...
 
That's actually very possible good reloads, actually there were upper brands that were tested with silver state ammo over at ar15.com...

Noveske
MSTN
WOA
ASI(wssm)
Dtech(wssm)

All of which out to 650 yard could shoot 7-8 inches.. and they were only 16" barrels. Within 350 yards most were sub moa not even reloads.. either. Some varmint uppers will shoot 2" groups at 300 yard..
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With open sights?
 
An AR CAN shoot 2" groups at 250 yards with iron sights. Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean that ARs can't. I'm going to say it out loud. You aren't a good enough shot to make the most of EITHER rifle. A Garand can do it. An M-14 can do it. Your Mini wasn't manufactured with the INTENT to have that kind of accuracy.

You are basing all of your assertions on things you have read and heard. Those of us Who have actually DONE it aren't going to believe you.

One afternoon I cranked through 500 straight rounds of Wolf in a Bushmaster M-4gery. The whole rifle was almost too hot to touch, I was wearing gloves. No failures. I have NEVER seen a Mini that could do that. And if it were up to those who designed the Mini, you would have to do it 4 rounds at a time.

I grew up with Minis. All the ranchers had them in their racks for general pest control. None of them use them anymore. They have all dropped them for ARs, because they're better, or SKSs, because they're cheaper and just as good.

A fellow soldier recently came to me for advice on customizing his mini to make it do everything his M-16 did. I went online with him and looked for rails, optics, accessories, and he just couldn't make it the same. I asked him why he got a Mini if he wanted it to be an AR. He said he really liked the Mini. I said, if you like it so much, why are you working so hard to change it? I gave him my Brownell's AR catalog, and the next week he sold his Mini. He said it was just too limited. With an AR, he could do anything with it, especially with multiple uppers.

The idea that the Mini is so superior means that all of the police and military agencies that use it are just stupid. They didn't do their homework when they picked the AR for their rifle, because if they had tried the Mini, they would have picked it. Or perhaps they saw the limitations of the platform, and the ease of use of the AR and decided to use the rifle that more personnel can easily use and learn quickly, which, by the way, has been the service rifle for the U.S. military longer than ANY other rifle in its history.

Perhaps you are right, and ALL of them are wrong. What you are REALLY saying is, that YOU LIKE the Mini more. You have absolutely no idea which rifle is better. You don't have the skill or training to know how to use either rifle correctly. You are basing your assertions on what your friends and uncles have told you.
 
The only reason I made this thread was the fact that there are a lot of folks out there that make factless, baseless, highly generalized claims about the
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Insert almost any weapon ever made. How many times have I been told that the FAL is a horribly inaccurate rifle even though my rifle has proven to be very accurate time and time again. That the FAL is this, that or other thing that makes it worse than a M1A or AR10. If the Mini works for you then that is great. Like I said I have a lot of fun with mine, but do not try to paint all AR owners with the same brush. And again I am not an AR owner. I like my FAL just fine thanks.
 
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