Graduating College - Graduation Gift = Rifle from Cabela's, help me choose!

[Phoenix_III]

My situation - I am graduating from college and I have somehow talked my parent in buying me a rifle as a graduation gift. I currently own about 21 differents arms (9 of which are handguns). She wanted to get me a tooth implant (need one in the way back), but I sold her on getting me something I would love and keep forever.

I would like something in a medium caliber [I think], in .30's (.308, .30cal, etc), but I am not sure. I've always wanted a Remington PSS (though I'd buy a 5r online and have it shipped most likely) in 308, but I had the chance to shoot a Remington LTR (Lightweight Tactical Rifle) in .308 and it was very unpleasant. The recoil wasn't bad, but however the optics were set up, I was getting popped in the eye doing what I thought was long distance shooting (200 yards). The rifle was too light or perhaps I was not holding it to the bench (bags) well.

Now I already have the following and enjoy (posting what is relevent)

7.62x39 AK variant with Ultimak and toys. It's my fun SHTF gun.
.22lr CZ452 Youth Model (bought it for my girlfriend, she claimed the following was too heavy, and it is mighty accurate, of which I have not tested the upper limits)
Winchester 69a (.22lr bolt) - Full size bolt action .22
Ruger 10/22 - fully done up by me, it also has not been tested for max accuracy as the optics (no irons on this one) were the limiting factor at 50 yards.
Mosin Nagant in an M44 and M91/30 variety in 762x54R. I haven't shot them yet, but they are just neat to have, will shoot soon.
Yugo 8mm Mauser - Also not fired yet, neat to have... what an action!!

I think those are the relevent rifles (I have shotguns covered no need for another).

Well? Maybe a Remington 700 in .223? But I was wondering the question of 'If I have the $ and want to, I should be able to get a semi-auto up to bolt action accuracy'. However, they are also picky about being clean for function, do I need a kick in the mud battle rifle with good accuracy like an m1a? What about the FAL and Cetme platforms? Doesn't my AK pretty much cover these, except the AK is more handy where the others are more, well, solid/slightly more accurate?

I had an AR15 but had to sell it to finance handguns when I became of age... I do miss it... Bushmaster XM15 E2S... never missed a beat and was very, very accurate with average ammo.

However, this gun will be coming home to NJ with me temporarily and should be NJ legal, so keep that in mind...

Make a suggestion/recommendation/ask questions, I'd like to just shoot the breeze and roll some ideas around with you gents.

Cheers,

p3

 

[Dienekes]

Springfield Armory M1A. Somewhat pricey, but definitely a lifetime companion. It will do for just about anything including highpower competition down the road. The standard grade will suffice and can be upgraded as needed if you wish.

No idea of whether or not it is politically correct in NJ. Being a hell of a good weapon, some gelded bureaucrat may object strenously. Which, if you think of it, is a fine reason to own one.

 

[dakotasin]

if the 308 was popping ya, the scope either had insufficient eye relief, or you just had a real bad hold on it. either way, if you like the ltr in 308, it is a good one - and i'd say you should pursue it.

also would reccomend you check out a 700 vls in 308, and if a 22 is your style, a 700 lvsf in 22-250 or 221 fireball might just be the ticket.

 

[Phoenix_III]

The M1A is okay in NJ, just not the Polytech M14S (banned by name).

I think the eye relief on the LTR I was shooting was AWEFUL, now that I am thinking about it! I had to get too damn close to see.

I was also thinking of a classic like the M1 Garand (would like it in .308 so I can afford to shoot it a little more), and Springfield Armory currently produces that.

dakotasin, how does the 22-250 and 221 fireball compare to the .223 cartridge? I still have a number of those left and would like to keep my calibers down to the basics (well, what I consider the basics)
.308 [7.62x51]
7.62x39
7.62x54R
.45
9mm
.380 (girlfriends)
.22lr
and maybe .22 magnum or a 17 in the future.
.50bmg once I have some extra $ to do nothing with. =)

 

[dakotasin]

the 22-250 generates considerably more velocity than the 223. the reason i mentioned it is because of the scope. the leupold varmint reticle was designed around a 22-250's ballistics.

the 221 fireball is based on the 222. originally designed as a handgun cartridge (xp-100), it has developed a pretty tight following in rifles. it runs just a touch less than 223 in velocity.

still, i would pursue the ltr in 308, and pop for a leupold 4.5-14 or bigger...

 

[Phoenix_III]

Dakotasin, when I originally dreamed of the Remington 700, I wanted to put it in a green AICS 1.0 stock. I really like the detachable magazine option, though the Remington made DM models are not the best functioning with the detachable magazine. I recently learned that the AICS is no longer made or imported and now commands an even higher price than before! I'm wondering about a 700 in .223... I guess I would really need to figure out 'what do I want this rifle for', etc. Does Remington even make DM models anymore, or has perhaps made them more reliable?

edit . CZ 527 is a detachable mag .223 that seems to be great out of the box... hmmmm

 

[Art Eatman]

The world is plumb full of really neat rifles of all sorts, with all kinds of prices.

So: What do you think you'll use it for, mostly? Informal paper punching? Hunting? Serious rifle competition? Also, not just this year or next, but later on, several years from now, maybe?

If you run through these sorts of questions, lotsa stuff drops out of the equation, and the choices become much simpler.

, Art

 

[Phoenix_III]

I do not believe I will be competing, and I do not believe I need a serious SHTF rifle (I will be doing a good AK build up for that, though a .308 battle rifle such as the M1a that could also double for some competition is nice). I think I would like this particular rifle to remain mostly stock, I do not want to experiment on it. I would like it to be a favorite to shoot, so no exotic or expensive calibers, and something practical. I am liking the CZ 527 in .223. It is very accurate out of the box, especially with the right ammo (what isn't), priced well, a good cart, and has irons and glass options to boot. I'm giving that a good hard look as well as the oodles of M1A options there are. It will also boil down to what Cabela's has at the time, too.

=)

 

[Billmanweh]

if you already have 21 guns, you might reconsider getting the tooth

 

[El Rojo]

Why Cabelas? Are they local to your area or something? I only ask this because I am in the PRK and we only have the Catalog Cabelas and in which case I wouldn't be buying a rifle from them.

I don't know if you have given us enough information to go off of. Are you going to be hunting varmints? Then get a .223 or a .22-250 or something. Are you going to be hunting bigger game? Get something bigger. Are you just going to be punching paper with it at various yards? Get a Remington PSS or VS in .308 (can also be used for varminting).

I personally like the idea of the M1A or the Garand. Get a Garand from the CMP for $515! You can't go wrong there. Or since the old folks are paying, get an M1A since you can scope it too even though I would just recommend keeping the irons.

If you weren't going back to NJ, I would say get your AR-15 back! With the ability to get as many uppers as you want, a good AR-15 lower and upper can easily grow into numberous rifles.

 

[Mugsy90/10]

Remington 700 in .308

or

M1A (also .308)

Get my vote

 

[Phoenix_III]

Cabelas because my parent really like the store (very well set up with taxidermied animals and whatnot) and it is close enough that A) I would like to go B) They are supposedly decent in terms of selection/price.

Their catalog does not feature anything but black powder unfortunately.

As for hunting, well, I do not hunt currently. I do have the occassional varmint hunt (Squirrel, crow, or if I go West to visit my father on his ranch, coyote or various other varmints)... Mostly for punching paper and the occassional SHTF feel good rifle...

I guess I need to choose between something practical (CZ 527 in .223 for great accuracy, irons and optics, bolt action paper and varmint work), or something more towards power and SHTF (M1A comes to mind), M1 Garand I would want in .308 but should get after the M1A I would think...

I keep oscilating between an M1A and the CZ... for now. =)

As for the AR15, yes, I wish I wasn't going to have in NJ for a while, though I may be moving to PA (or becoming LEO in NJ) so I'll have to wait and see.

=)

*edit*
[sorry for my disjointed, unproofread posts, it's the last week of classes coming up then finals and I have waaaay to much work] =\

 

[dakotasin]

cabela's is a very classy store.

their new rifle prices are as good as anybody's. their used rifle prices are sky-high, but as long as you a) don't buy used, and b) haggle a little, and c) recognize you're gonna get rooked, you'll be fine.

but, as i said, cabela's prices their nib guns as well as anybody, and they do have an outstanding selection.

 

[Phoenix_III]

Sounds great... I'm reading up on the CZ 527 Kevlar Varmint and all the different Springfield M1A variants.

Looks like I could use more than M1A (Different roles, super accuracy, etc)...

Just curious though, does anyone know off hand if the say Super National Match is LESS RELIABLE than say the Loaded or Standard because of the tuned gas system or Douglas or Krieger barrels?

Just curious.
=)

(For Graduation I would most likely go with a Standard or Loaded and keep it that way, and get another to upgrade/play with at a later date).

=)

 

[Art Eatman]

One thing for sure, the .223 gives more shooting for less money than other stuff.

Me being me, I'd probably go for the same amount of money for reloading gear, if you're not already "rolling your own".

Anybody with 21 guns oughta be reloading, anyway...

Art

 

[El Rojo]

Good point Art. Do you have a reloading set-up? You can buy surplus .308 for that M1A, but to get its full potential and save a buck or two, you need to reload.

With the further information you have given, I would go with the loaded M1A. Here is why.

SHTF: you are good to go. Get quite a few magazines for it and you are set.

Competiton: Not as good as an AR for national match highpower, but it works. It will punch some decent groups in paper, no doubt.

Varmints: If you reload your own, you can load some 110 gr. V-Max or some 125 gr. TNT HPs and put a scope on that puppy and you would be good to go. I shoot squirrels and coyotes using those loads out of my Remington 700 VS in .308 and it most certainly does the job. Just keep in mind, it does the job quite a few dollars more expensive than .223, but it does do the job.

A good M1A would be your versitile rifle. I say go for the loaded model. Stay away from standard if you can get a little bit better barrel and trigger, go for it!

I would say skip the M1 Garand in .308 at this time. I mean you can do whatever you want, but that is more of a specialized rifle. This makes no sense, but a man or woman should have a regular .30-06 Garand before they get a .308 Garand. I guess it is just the history behind the .30-06 Garand and there are so many better rifles out there that are in .308 (M1A, Saiga, FAL, Bushmaster).

 

[Phoenix_III]

I agree about the M1A versatility. Does the Loaded have a different barrel than the standard. I will go check Springfield right now... 'National Match' barrel in the loaded vs. unspecified in the standard. Good to know.

As for rolling my own, I've been a college student for the last 4 years, no time to buy those tools and have a set up for them. First house, I very well may. I am quite the searcher for good ammo deals. =)

Carrying on, does the M1A lose reliability when going from Standard to Loaded to National Match to Super Match? =)

Thank you for the info, I agree on the garand, I would like one in .30-06 too whynot. ; ). M1A wins this one (over the Garand for this particular purchase).

Cheers.

 

[El Rojo]

I used to think the same thing when I was in college about reloading. I didn't shoot enough and I didn't have enought time. I bought my Dillon the September after I graduated. I didn't even have my own house yet, but my parents lived 10 miles away and my dad didn't mind setting it up at their house. I used my reloader out there until I moved into my own house three years later. It was most certainly worth the investment. And think of it as a life long investment, the sooner you buy in, the more you save and the more you will get out of it. Seriously start thinking about reloading.

You are just about done having to worry about papers and school, you will have more time on your hands until you get married. That means more time to shoot and more time to reload. The other benefit of reloading is you can custom tailor your ammo to your gun, which with factory ammo you can't do.

 

[SJG26]

Go to Cabelas for "hands-on", but buy it elswhere........

"Cabelas because my parent really like the store (very well set up with taxidermied animals and whatnot) and it is close enough that A) I would like to go B) They are supposedly decent in terms of selection/price."

Great selection - YES
Prices - MSRP or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live within eyesight of Cabelas, and ALL their firearms are MSRP----------May I suggest Moyers Hardware - Walnutport or DNR Sports up in Nanticoke.

Or, Cabelas WILL price match, if a) Competitor is within "50 miles" and b) has firearm in stock.
Example #1:
I bought my Kahr PM9 last fall from Cabelas($700) after telling them DnR had it for $590 (DLC coat and nite-sites)...............it was worth the 60-mile drive to save $110 and their sale to lose........................they caved and sold it for $590.
Example #2:
In the market for a 223-------------Savage 10FP-LE2B to be exact-Cabelas quoted $659.00 - special order so no haggling.
Local shop tells me $560.00 - have it for me in a week-waiitng for the tax check to close the deal!!

 

[SUE ROVR]

The 26 or 24in barrel will be easier on you than the 20in of the LTR.

I have a 700 VS in 308 but the 5r is really cool and apparently easier to clean. I kind of wish I bought that instead.