Gratuitous 38/44 Picture Thread!

[Peter M. Eick]

SaxonPig started a great thread on the old 38/44 round and duplicating the old standard loads. With that in mind, I could not resist starting a 38/44 picture thread.

So!!!!!

Our guest of honor!

Two of the oldest known 38/44's in existence. The bottom one is the lowest found serial number (only one lower out there) and the top one is a first weeks production.

Here are some old long action 38/44's.

Here are the 3 common barrel lengths in the long action format. The 4" and 6.5" pre-war are reasonably to quite rare. I vaguely remember reading that there are 24 known 4" prewars made, but I could be wrong on that. The 6.5" prewar is also pretty rare.

Here is my collection as it stands today.

This is 50 shots, of hot 38/44's at 15 yards offhand in a 1939 customized target Heavy Duty.

This is a 1950 Outdoorsman with 50 shots of hot 38/44's at 15 yards offhand.

This is an April 1930 Heavy Duty with 50 shots of hot 38/44's at 15 yards offhand.

One of the neat features of the pre-wars is the hold open latch that keeps the cylinder open so you can do things like this and not have it slam shut. Try that with a modern revolver! (by the way, it is a 1939 Registered Magnum)

Never let it be said that the 38/44 was not an accurate powerful round, and fun to shoot!

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Here is the box that a 1939 Outdoorsman would come it.

They also would come with a target tagged to the gun.

To bad I could not do as well, 50 shots, 15 yards, hot 38/44's but then again it was my first time out.

As a comparison, here is a prewar Outdoorsman on the bottom to two post war Outdoorsman's on the top. The middle one is my shooter and the top one has never been fired to the best I can tell. The only turn line is from me, the idiot who when he got it, immediately did a safety inspection of the gun before I accepted it and never even considered it was unfired. Oh, well live and learn.

 

[19-3Ben]

Droooooooool.................

 

[Bullet Bob]

Here's a '52 Heavy Duty. The nickle is in good shape, and the darn thing looked unfired when I bought it; however, someone has had the trigger & hammer replaced with target types, and put on diamond target grips/stocks/handles. I think it is factory nickled; the cylinder star is blued, as it should be. There's no rework star or other mark on the grip frame to indicate it was sent back to S&W to be refinished. All the numbers are in the right places, and match. All markings are crisp. Quien sabe?



I some times take it out to the field in this Milt Sparks holster, and feel like a lucky American:




Sadly, Mr. Eick, it's my only example of the breed. Have you seen the thread on the S&W forum about the early, near-mint example? It's in the pre-1945 section:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/540103904/m/4701002132/p/1

I figure you have, but maybe some of the folks here haven't. Anyway, darn fun, and interesting guns. You have an excellent collection.

 

[SaxonPig]

Unlike Peter who has a fabulous collection of significant guns, I have but the single example and it's not rare, or pristine, or special except to me. The serial would be from 1956 but it letters as not shipped until 1960. The 5 screw frame and lack of a model number confirms its pre-1957 manufacture and shows how slow these were selling at that point and this one sat in inventory for four years.

It was sent to a dealer near Dallas and my Texas friends tell me this shop sold a lot of guns to cops so it's likely this was a duty weapon. Shows a lot of holster wear but is very slick and shoots great. I took top spot at a combat match with it. I bought it for $195 in 1999 from a dealer at a Denver gun show.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Another evidence of slow sales is that front sight. If I remember correctly (and boy there's no guarantee of that), S&W did away with the "half moon" front sight in 1951 in favor of a ramped version. You can see M&P's (always a fast seller) with half moons if made in '51, and ramped if made in 1952. But they must have had a few pre-52 barrel/sight combinations for the Heavy Duty laying around that they continued to use for many years.

 

[Will5A1]

Oh man you guys know how to make a man jealous - wish I had one.

 

[tipoc]

An old beater of an Outdoorsman, shipped Dec. 11 1931.

tipoc

 

[yhtomit]

1) Would someone mind adding to these excellent photos of pistols (and one of the headstamp on the cartridge) a shot of the cartridge itself (side view)? I've never heard of it before, and I haven't yet sprung for "Cartridges of the World"

Since I'm not familiar with it, I'm curious why it seems to (just based on this thread) have such a devoted following.

2) Is there a good website similar to world.guns.ru that is specifically about ammunition? I know that Max has an ammunition section, which I am not knocking, but I suspect there are some vast virtual museums online entirely devoted to ammo ...

timothy

 

[Bullet Bob]

It fires a "regular" .38 Special, hotrodded a bit since it was made for the heavy S&W "N" frame. Since it was developed in the mid-30's, there weren't that many really old .38 special revolvers around, and people back then were expected to exercise the sense God gave a Billy Goat and fire it only in the guns the box said it was for. People being people, I'm sure someone fired in a 1902 gun not designed for the pressure. However, if it blew up, that was their problem.

 

[SaxonPig]

Bob- The K frame guns got the new front sight in 52 but I think the N frames used the rounded one much longer. Seems like I saw a 20-2 made in 1962 and it had the round sight. Maybe the M58 in 1964 was the first fixed sight N frame with a ramp?

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Bullet Bob is exactly right. The only difference from a 38/44 and a 38 special is the head stamp. That is unless you find really old ammo with the large primer pocket like the original 357 Magnums.

That is the caveat for reloaders. You have to either make sure you don't fire the 38/44's in a Colt D frame or Smith K frame that was not 357 magnum capable or do like I do and buy lots of big N frame Smiths and shoot them.

I have yet to see a 38/44 that I did not want to buy. Most I have (and will continue to do so)! They are special guns!

 

[wcwhitey]

Very nice collection Peter. I love the long actions. Bill

 

[Stoney]

Here are a couple of mine.

 

[yhtomit]

Great pics, Stoney!

So, you could fire ordinary .38 Special ammo out of any of these guns as well as the 38/44 stuff?

timothy

 

[Bullet Bob]

Yup, and I usually do.

I'm no expert on anything, but I've read two reason why this gun/ammo combination was made. The good reason was that cops were complaining that they were undergunned against the gangsters of the day (sound familiar?), who had better ordinance, bullet resistant glass in their cars, and flak vests. The real reason was that Colt had come with the .38 Super auto, and S&W was afraid of losing sales to them. Of course, very soon afterwards S&W came out with the .357 magnum and rendered the whole point moot.

I admit to bleeding S&W Blue, especially K (medium) and N (large) frames. I like 'em all, old or new (don't even mind "the lock"!), but there's a certain charm to using the older ones that people of a certain age (cough) seem to really appreciate.

For me the Heavy Duty is just fun; it has that S&W feel, looks cool to me, is well made and accurate. What's not to like?

 

[tipoc]

The name "38/44" which S&W applied to the guns, came about because you had a 38 caliber round in a 44 frame. What we today call an N frame was than known as the 44 frame. Named that, IIRC, because it was first used in the New Century or Triple Lock which was in .44 Spl.

The first 38/44 to appear was the "Heavy Duty" fixed sight revolver. This was followed a couple of years later by the adjustable sighted "Outdoorsman".

tipoc

 

[BigG]

Beautiful guns, guys!

They were the guns that Elmer Keith used to hotrod prior to appearance of the .357 Magnum. They became fairly redundant once that was available. JMTC I would like to have one, too.

 

[Jubjub]

My uncle has a well worn 4 inch that I got to shoot once. It shot perfectly to point of aim for me, but a couple of inches to one side for him. I explained that it was obviously a left handed gun, and tried to talk him into selling, but had no luck.

 

[Stoney]

Thanks yhtomit, tipoc explained the ammo question, I shoot .38 specials of all types, from low powered target stuff up +p+ without problem. The 38/44 is an outstanding revolver and the prices for them are going up fast, snag one quick if you can.

 

[SaxonPig]

In the late 1920s crooks were in cars and wearing vests making the cop's 38s iffy at best. Colt brought out the .38 Super and it was big hit because of the round's capacity to penetrate. S&W responded with the 38/44 a few months later.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Those 38/44's are super cool.

The ONLY thing like them is a Colt New Service in 38 Special (they could handle the 38/44 loads too.)

I don't have either. Want both.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I agree. I have been on the hunt for the competitor (New Service 38 special) but have not seen one yet. Great gun I hear.

 

[jad0110]

You guys and your pictures are going to get my bank account into trouble :banghead: . Peter, I am stunned!

Here's to a 28 year old that is not interested in combat tupperware, but dreams of owning a 38/44, pre Model 10 M&P, a replica 1873 Single Action Army, a clone of the Winchester Model 1876, and maybe even a vintage M1911 Government Model, someday.

Come to think of it, can't you guys talk about what pieces of crap the 38/44s are ? Geez, I might actually want to find one someday before they are all bought up!

 

[Reddbecca]

Peter you lucky bastard.