Great Plains bullets, TC Hawken, and paper bag patched round balls.

[Ugly Sauce]

I picked up a free TC Hawken a while back. "Free", until I had to buy an ebay barrel for it. I've never seen a barrel as trashed, inside, as was the one that was on it.

Barrel didn't seem to like round ball, only shot "okay". Did a little batter with the 240 grain Hornady PA conical, but not "great". (although my Plains Pistol LOVES that bullet) So I got some "Great Plains 385 grain bullets, ($$$$$) but just got around shooting them. Today.

"1" Groups at 100 yards it says on the box. Okay, not holding my breath on that. However, they did very well over 80 grains of 3f. I didn't have to shoot groups to sight the rifle in, was able to "walk" them in. One shot, adjust sight, another shot, adjust sight, etc. I think they are doing a solid 3" or a little better at 100.

So, I had some of my ".50-60" round ball cartridges for my Plains Pistol, and thought I'd see how they would work in the rifle. You know, fast reloads for when the wolf pack is closing in on me. The Great Plains bullet is a bit hard to load, not a great option for rapid fire. Short started required for sure. To my surprise, even though the .50-60 ball cartridges are accurate in the pistol, I didn't expect them to shoot so well in the rifle. I shot from 50 yards, because that is where I would actually use them, or closer. But they held real tight at fifty, I think they would stay on the paper plate at 100. And, they just kept ramming down easy shot after shot.

Try some, you'll like them I think, if you want some emergency fast loads. For the wolf pack. Or aliens. Or whatever. Just make a tube, out of sammich, or lunch bag paper, make it so the ball is a press-fit into it, add powder, fold the end over, small spot of glue or not, (depending on your "tail" folding abilities) and then dip the ball end in some melted bee's wax. I use pure wax, no added lubes, tallows, sour owl snot or anything else.

To load, tear off end, pour in powder, and then ram the whole mess down. Then cap with a capper. I rip off the excess paper, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference. Sure wouldn't at 20 yards!

 

[glockgod]

Paper bag for RB patch? Did you try .495 ball and .015 patching? Factory 50 Hawken barrels had a 1-48 twist. Too fast for round ball and too slow for sabots or conicals. A 1-66 barrel is standard for round ball but sometimes a 1-48 barrel will do well with some load tweaking. If you can find some Lee REAL conicals try them. Lee makes a mold if you want to cast your own.I got a Hawken .50 for $175 last fall but haven't shot it yet. You've given me the itch to try it out!

 

[Armorer 101]

A couple questions for you guys that have a TC Hawken 50 gun. Is the nipple set screw a 6-48 standard screw? Is the breach plug a RT hand thread?

I was asked to clean up a rifle for a guy, then what he brings in is a TC Hawken, that had been rode hard, shot multiple times and put up as shot, for years. The rust is pretty bad, neither lock nor trigger worked, etc. It is unloaded. I have heated the breach end of the barrel itself with a torch and the plug nor set screw will break free so far. Every screw was red Locktighted, had to use a fine point torch to get all of the other screws out.

Track of the Wolf had the barrel assemblies, now BO or OS, but at $260 is probably beyond this guy’s real interest. I just hate to see a nice old gun turned into trash.
Not to steal the post, at all, but this is the first reference to a TC Hawken 50 repair I have seen.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Steal away, doesn't hurt my feelings when a thread/post takes a more interesting turn. I am not familiar with the thread pitch's, but other are. This one I have was certainly rode hard, put up wet, etc. The stock was nice, and the furniture, but the lock required some work. Really didn't "need" the rifle as I have much better ones, but finally found a cheap ebay barrel, and now I'm happy with the rifle. Like you, just couldn't let an old gun turn to trash.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Paper bag for RB patch? Did you try .495 ball and .015 patching? Factory 50 Hawken barrels had a 1-48 twist. Too fast for round ball and too slow for sabots or conicals. A 1-66 barrel is standard for round ball but sometimes a 1-48 barrel will do well with some load tweaking. If you can find some Lee REAL conicals try them. Lee makes a mold if you want to cast your own.I got a Hawken .50 for $175 last fall but haven't shot it yet. You've given me the itch to try it out!

Shoot that sucker! In the past I was never a fan of the TC Hawken, but I'm growing to like it a lot.

Yes I tried regular cloth patching, and a 240 grain slug. I'm totally pleased with the "Great Plains" 385 grain bullet. It shoots great. 3" or better at 100 yards is totally acceptable to me for a hunting load. I won't be wasting any more time or powder looking for something that will shoot better. What I will use this rifle for is a spare, or "back up" rifle for when I go on hunting trips, in case my primary/regular were to get damaged. Also, I hunt with flintlocks, which I can keep running in the rain, but sometimes I get lazy, and like to have a cap-gun in camp, and use it in very wet conditions. I was using my 1861 Springfield for that purpose, and will again, but damn that's a big old heavy hunk or a rifle. I love it, but she's heavy.

The reason I'm tickled that my Plains Pistol cartridges work so well in this rifle is that last October we had our first wolf attack on a human. The whole darn pack went after a guy, but he had a rifle. Wolves lost, man lived to tell the tale. Where I hunt they have become quite thick. And bold, I see them all the time now, or, often. The cartridges are fast-loads. Not a primary load I would hunt with. Originally, I would have been pleased with half-way decent accuracy at 20 yards with them, but they proved almost as accurate as a regular cloth patched ball in my pistol.

Now in the rifle it's much the same. At fifty yards they are VERY accurate, and shoot to point-of-aim. That's a very good thing. I can start to "discourage" at that range, and not wait until the "enemy" is closing at 20 yards, and even get some repeat shots off. Then I either pull my pistol, or start whistling Dixie. They are purely a defensive load, not for target shooting or hunting. (maybe a wabbit?) They reload VERY fast. Tear-pour-ram-cap-boom.

Yeah the ebay-barrel I got is an old one, does not have any of the "warnings" on it, or even "black powder only". Probably 1/48. But, it's shooting the "Great Plains" bullet really nice, so we are GOOD! YEAH BABY!!!

 

[glockgod]

Beautiful! Glad it worked out well. For wolf pack attacks a Glock 17 with the 31 round "big stick" would come in REAL handy!

 

[brewer12345]

Yeah, when I hunt bear and cougar territory with a muzzleloader or a rimfire I generally pack a 357 or a 45.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I used to, but recently I've moved more towards black powder side arms. With the rifles I use, .58 and 62 caliber, or my Brown Bess, which is .75" I feel pretty "comfortable" with that as my main defense. The .50", with the 385 grain slug I trust, with 80 grains it should outshine a .45-70-400, but that's why I wasn't really wanting to use round ball in it. Thought that was a little on the light side for hunting in a grizzly recovery area.

My Plains Pistol, with the 240 grain slug and 60 grains of 3f I trust for defense. Yeah, only one shot, but I think that knowing one has only one shot, helps to make that one shot count, rather than spraying bullets randomly as fast as one can pull the trigger. Or not, but I believe that. When I carry a Cap-N-Ball revolver, it's mostly for small game, coup-de-grass, Wolf repellent, or whatever. For bear, I'd pull my K-bar before pulling a .36", if I flubbed my one shot with the rifle or musket. !!

When I go trekking, practice map and compass, or exploring (all the same?) with my Little Badger, indeed I then carry my .44 magnum Revolver, or the El Patron in .45".

 

[windini]

For bear, I'd pull my K-bar before pulling a .36", if I flubbed my one shot with the rifle or musket. !!

My current read is "The Revenant"; you remind me of Hugh Glass! 'Cept he didn't flub his 1 shot... it just took a bit to settle in.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

There in lies the rub...a good shot from just about any rifle or pistol can take a little bit to settle in. And with a charging bear, even with a repeater, one shot is probably all one is going to get. !!!!

But considering my chances of getting snuffed out in a traffic accident, on my way up North or back, are far far far greater than getting mauled by that there bar, I'm actually not much concerned. Prepared for sure, but no worries. And I'll take dying in the woods, over being road-kill. !!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

A couple questions for you guys that have a TC Hawken 50 gun. Is the nipple set screw a 6-48 standard screw? Is the breach plug a RT hand thread?

I was asked to clean up a rifle for a guy, then what he brings in is a TC Hawken, that had been rode hard, shot multiple times and put up as shot, for years. The rust is pretty bad, neither lock nor trigger worked, etc. It is unloaded. I have heated the breach end of the barrel itself with a torch and the plug nor set screw will break free so far. Every screw was red Locktighted, had to use a fine point torch to get all of the other screws out.

Track of the Wolf had the barrel assemblies, now BO or OS, but at $260 is probably beyond this guy’s real interest. I just hate to see a nice old gun turned into trash.
Not to steal the post, at all, but this is the first reference to a TC Hawken 50 repair I have seen.

I think I paid $140 for the barrel I got on ebay. It has a good bore, although it looked not so great on the outside. (but I like it...looks "antique"!) At that time, which was only four-five months ago, there seemed to be TC barrels popping up quite often, and mostly under $200. I started out looking for a .54, but those were hard to find, for what I was willing to pay. Seemed to be plenty of .50's around.

Have you put the breech end of that barrel in a bucket of gas and trans fluid, or kerosene and oil, diesel fuel, or a combination of all of the above, or whatever you pick of piezzen is, and let it soak for a couple of days??

 

[Armorer 101]

I poured liquid wrench down the bore, about an ounce and left it for a week, upright, still no go, then heated it with the torch, and still no go. I am going to try an action wrench with the jaws reversed with two flats. But I will need to get the nipple out to get to the full flats of the plug. The set screw head had about 1/2 pf one side break off, so I recut the slot and heated it, then put liquid wrench around it. I has been soaking about 3 days.

I can do some diesel and gas mixed as I use the mixture for starting fires in the drip lighters here on the farm. As a matter of fact, the old pump action with a tight patch might help a bit. I will give that a try.

This barrel is a real mess, everything is pretty much welded together by rust and lock-tight. Sort of a what one should never to do to a muzzle loader kind of story.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Wow, yeah, there ought to be a law. !! Well that sucks. What a waste. So, the bore must look "serviceable". ? Otherwise I assume you'd not be struggling to get the breech off. ? If the breech is going to be replaced, could you get it red-hot without hurting the breech end of the barrel? The nipple being frozen sucks, but I'd not be afraid of getting that sucker red-hot and giving it a twist with the nipple wrench. ?

 

[DocRock]

Paper bag cartridges. Love it!

 

[MutinousDoug]

Where did my post go?
The site says I'm still logged in?

***?

 

[Walkalong]

Sure you hit the "Post Reply" button? I've done that before, forget to hit the button.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Wow, yeah, there ought to be a law. !! Well that sucks. What a waste. So, the bore must look "serviceable". ? Otherwise I assume you'd not be struggling to get the breech off. ? If the breech is going to be replaced, could you get it red-hot without hurting the breech end of the barrel? The nipple being frozen sucks, but I'd not be afraid of getting that sucker red-hot and giving it a twist with the nipple wrench. ?

Just about got all your bullets finished and ill be sending to ya soon sir! Sorry for the delay...had to clean some of the roofing lead and then make it into clean ingots

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Roofing/Flash lead is gooooooood stuff. That stuff is dead-soft. Yeah! Oh boy, going to be a lot of gunfire around here when they arrive. But no worries. Thanks!

 

[AJumbo]

Double-tap, deleted.

 

[AJumbo]

A couple questions for you guys that have a TC Hawken 50 gun. Is the nipple set screw a 6-48 standard screw? Is the breach plug a RT hand thread?

I was asked to clean up a rifle for a guy, then what he brings in is a TC Hawken, that had been rode hard, shot multiple times and put up as shot, for years. The rust is pretty bad, neither lock nor trigger worked, etc. It is unloaded. I have heated the breach end of the barrel itself with a torch and the plug nor set screw will break free so far. Every screw was red Locktighted, had to use a fine point torch to get all of the other screws out.

Track of the Wolf had the barrel assemblies, now BO or OS, but at $260 is probably beyond this guy’s real interest. I just hate to see a nice old gun turned into trash.
Not to steal the post, at all, but this is the first reference to a TC Hawken 50 repair I have seen.

@Armorer101-

That isn't a nipple set screw. It's more of a cleanout screw, and I've never felt moved to remove any of mine. I think it's TC's solution for plugging the hole after boring the flash channel. If the nipple is is stuck, it isn't because of that screw. Those screws always tended to be brittle, but I guess you found that out.

I wouldn't try heating the nipple; rather, get some dry ice and cool it off a bunch. I see you tried soaking it with penetrant, and that's good. Give it another soak, pack the nipple with dry ice, or maybe just put the barrel in the chest freezer for a while, and try to turn the nipple out. Make sure your nipple wrench is a dead slip fit. You might even want to invest in a heavy-duty "bench" nipple wrench. The tool will be cheaper than the repair job if your "bag" nipple wrench rounds the flats on the nipple or breaks it off in the nipple seat.

 

[robhof]

Paper bag for RB patch? Did you try .495 ball and .015 patching? Factory 50 Hawken barrels had a 1-48 twist. Too fast for round ball and too slow for sabots or conicals. A 1-66 barrel is standard for round ball but sometimes a 1-48 barrel will do well with some load tweaking. If you can find some Lee REAL conicals try them. Lee makes a mold if you want to cast your own.I got a Hawken .50 for $175 last fall but haven't shot it yet. You've given me the itch to try it out!

I second the REAL Lee bullets, they work great in all my smoke poles, I've got them in 54, 50 and 45.

 

[ThomasT]

I'll third the Lee REAL bullets. And with the 1/48 twist I would start with the 250gr bullet. I have the 320gr mold and it shoots fine in my 50 calibers with a 1/48 twist and also shoots good enough for hunting in my Lyman GPR with a 1/60 twist. One poster here named frontiergander IIRC likes the 250 REAL with a felt wad below it. He also runs this website for BP guns.

https://www.frontiermuzzleloader.com/forums/traditional-muzzleloading.8/

I had a TC Hawken that I built from a kit and with a .490 ball and .018 pillow ticking patch and 50grs of 3F would shoot 50 yard groups that were just a ragged hole if I didn't screw up my end of the deal. A 1/48 twist will shoot better than some would have you think. And remember, the Hawken brothers rifled everything with a 1/48 twist

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Been shooting the REAL's forever, out of various .58's I own and have owned. They work great, and it's not easy to get anything to shoot good out of that shallow three-groove 1-in-five miles rifling twist of the .58 caliber military rifles. But, I like the results I'm getting with the GP bullet in the TC, so will stick with that. They are pricey, but I won't be shooting this rifle that much.

I love round-ball, and that's all I shoot in my main-squeeze, my .62 Jeager, which is rifled for ball. But for hunting around grizz, (not hunting FOR grizz) I think a .50" ball is on the light side. Yes I know, the .50 has done it all, and can do it all, but I'm just not comfortable with it around grizz. With a slug, and 80 to 90 grains of pixie dust, the .50 then transforms into a whole different animal, and will outclass the old .50-70, which is what Buffalo Bill shot most of his buffalo with, back in the day.