Green Bay coach wants son's suicide ruled an accident

[Andrew Rothman]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4203226.html

Former Vikings coach wants son's death ruled accidental
Associated Press
Published November 10, 2003 SHER11

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- A Green Bay Packers assistant coach and his wife have filed a petition to have their 14-year-old son's death ruled an accident.

Ray Sherman Jr. died May 18 of a single gunshot wound to his head from his father's .38-caliber handgun. He was the son of Packers wide receivers coach Ray Sherman and his wife, Yvette.

Brown County Medical Examiner Al Klimek initially ruled the death a suicide but changed the manner of death last week to undetermined.

The Shermans filed a petition in Brown County Circuit Court that asked a judge to change the death certificate. The matter has not yet been scheduled in court.

``We will do whatever it takes to clear our son's name and fight for his honor,'' the senior Sherman said Sunday at a news conference.

The Shermans' lawyer, Avram Berk, paid two forensic scientists and a psychiatrist to review the case. They said they believed the incident was an accident.

``We have given the acting medical examiner every opportunity to do the right thing, and he continually refuses to do so,'' Berk said. ``We have been left with no choice but to file this petition.''

Klimek had said he ruled Ray Sherman Jr.'s death a suicide because the boy had to take deliberate, intentional steps - retrieving and loading the gun, disengaging safeties and placing it against his temple - before pulling the trigger.

Klimek said he changed his ruling because the teen displayed no signs of wanting to hurt himself.

The Shermans have maintained their son had no reason to commit suicide, calling him a happy teen who got along with his friends. Sherman was a offensive coordinator for the Vikings before taking the job in Green Bay.

It's very sad, folks, but face facts.

 

[semf]

Mary Tyler Moore had a similar issue with her son's suicide. I watched her in an interview try to explain that the gun had a hair trigger. It was really sad. And I mean that in a sincere way. As a parent I don't think I could accept the fact that my kid could commit suicide. I can't think of anything worse other than accepting that you child intentionally took someone else'e life.

 

[Bruce H]

Rule it an accident and then blame the firearm. This way there is no personal responsibility involved with either parents or children.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

'Klimek said he changed his ruling because the teen displayed no signs of wanting to hurt himself.'


There are countless stories of suicides in the past that never exhibited “suicidal†behavior previous to the act. Yes, sometimes attempted suicide is “a cry for help†and sometimes it’s the real deal and they want to end their lives. While managing an indoor range, I had the unfortunate luck to witness and deal with the aftermath, of three suicides. Those weren’t accidents, they were deliberate, purposeful acts.

As this sounds like. The family may never understand, as most families of suicides will never understand, but I just don’t see how you accidentally retrieve the firearm, load it, disengage the “safety†(whatever that means), put the muzzle against your temple and then accidentally pull the trigger.

Maybe he was just goofing off and a complete moron in regards to firearm safety, and he paid the price, but it was still a deliberate act.

 

[CZ-100]

Parents, Should NOT have to bury their Children

 

[Jeff White]

Several years ago a young man committed suicide with a pump shotgun here. He sat in a chair, placed the barrel under his chin and shot himself. His parents have never accepted that this is what's happened. They are insisting he was murdered.

They base their theory on the fact that he was found sitting in the chair with the shotgun propped upright between his legs. The slide had dropped down after he had fired the fatal shot. Of course it would do that naturally because there was nothing to hold it in place after the shot was fired. This was demonstrated for the parents by our detective and the coroner. Yet to this day they believe he was murdered and the killer was racking the shotgun for a followup shot when he/she realized their son was dead.

I would be hard pressed to think of a death of a loved one that would be harder to accept then a suicide.

Jeff

 

[MissileCop]

[cynicism on] Yep, I'll be the one to bring this up, and as crappy as it might sound.

Has anyone given thought to the fact that they may have an insurance policy on the boy, and with it being ruled a suicide, won't be able to collect on the policy? If it's ruled an accident, then they can collect. It sucks having to think like that, but that's one more possibility. [cynicism off/]

 

[outfieldjack]

Sadly, thats what I was thinking.....

 

[Kaylee]

Could be the insurance thing, but I think it's more likely just plain wishful thinking. When someone you love kills themselves, it's hard enough to believe. If people are willing to fuel those fantasies, well... it's just mighty tempting.

I think the parents at this point are just so wrapped up in grief and blame that they have to pin it on something, and it's easier to blame a faulty firearm than go through the whole "where did I go wrong as a parent, he looked so happy" routine.

Heck, I'd imagine a fair amount of "accidental" firearm death statistics are the result of the folks on scene not wanting to trouble a family further... seems to me I recall "shot himself while cleaning his gun" as a euphemism for suicide.

-K

 

[hillbilly]

There's an EA Robinson poem about this....

http://www.medialab.chalmers.se/guitar/richard.cory.lyr.html


Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.
And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich - yes, richer than a king -
And admirably schooled in every grace;
In fine we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.


- Edwin Arlington Robinson -
" The Children Of The Night "

 

[Pilgrim]

Compromise: He accidentally committed suicide.

Pilgrim

 

[Matt G]

For 15 to 24 year-olds, suicide is the third leading cause of death (behind unitentional death and homicide).

For a parent to address the fact that his child took his own life is for a parent to have to face utter failure in the role of parent. That would tear more than I can imagine. How could a parent NOT sieze on the small thread of hope that such a shred of ambiguity would bring? I probably would in that position, too, God help me.


Don't judge the dad-- he's undoubtedly having a hard enough time just accepting that his son is gone.

Oh, and very few people take out life insurance on their kids.

 

[BluesBear]

Klimek said he changed his ruling because the teen displayed no signs of wanting to hurt himself.

OK then change it from intentional suicide to accidental suicide.

Of couse I m sure that this was the misunderstood youngsters very first cry for help/attention.

 

[semf]

Of couse I m sure that this was the misunderstood youngsters very first cry for help/attention

Sometimes it is

 

[feedthehogs]

My Mom's twin sister commited suicide when I was 14 by hanging herself in the bathroom. Her daughter found her after school. A year later my Mom attempted suicide by downing a bottle of pills. She spent 2 years in a Psyc hospital, came out and divorced my Dad. The Psychs blamed him for all her problems. My Mom had 12 brothers and Sisters. Half drank themselves to death either by drunkin driving accidents or alchoholism. I always wondered why all the problems and never got an answer until 40 years later this summer. In talking with my brother he revealed that my grandfather, who was a respected NY Times reporter had sexually abused the girls and beat the boys badly.
I say all this because maybe the parents can't handle the personal blame for ignoring signs or the cause of his demise.
There are always signs.
As a professional football coach maybe he had no time for his son, or his son was not living up to the tough standards that maybe his Dad set for him.
Guilt plays on the mind.

 

[Border]

This family is dealing with unimaginable pain! I can't for the life of me understand why it seems to be so important to some people that they "face facts!" Why?!! If a little denial offers even a modicum of relief right now, I say change the effin' certificate and do whatever you can to help this poor family feel even marginally better!! This reminds me of those self-righteous people who seem to feel the need to push a dying person through the "four stages of death" and try to force them to recognize that they will be dead soon, etc.! They really have no compassion and are there for themselves! They're the kind of people who will cruely hurt another person and then hide behind the sanctimonius BS of "Well, I'm just being honest!" Know the type? Honesty in these matters is vastly overated to put it mildly! I support whatever helps these families to live with the unliveable!! Now, IF they were to sue the gun manufacturer or some rock star for this tragedy-different story!

Suicide is not necessarily the parent's failure! Understandably, we all like to take credit in some way for a lot of the good things our kids do and how they turn out but to a significant degree kids are raised by themselves and their peers and parent's aren't always on the hook for their actions! It is a fallacy that everyone who kills themselves puts out signs. The suicidal will often be quite cheerful right up to their deaths as they have internally made the decision to die and feel quite happy and relieved that their internal suffering will be over.

No, no one in my family has ever comitted suicide thank God!

 

[PAshooter]

Rule it an accident and then blame the firearm. This way there is no personal responsibility involved with either parents or children.

There's a lot of truth to this statement. I truly feel for the parents, and can't begin to imagine the pain they must feel. My son, now 19, scared us with a threat (not an attempt) to end his life several years back. It wasn't sincere, but we had no way of knowing it at the time. So I've had a brief brush with what these parents must be going through. But as described this was not an accident, and fighting to have it ruled as such... to obtain a decision from the legal community that obviously runs counter to the reality of what happened, is to fight for outside support of their denial.

It's amazing what lengths people will go to in order to absolve themselves of guilt and deny painful realities. One tactic is to blame something or someone else... in this case an inanimate object. As gun owners we all too often come out on the short end of this kind of twisted reasoning. BTW - it says .38 caliber handgun... that would imply revolver to me... if so, what safeties did the child have to disengage before firing the gun?

Again, I feel for these parents... they need help and support in recognizing and accepting reality... not legal backing for a lie.

 

[Kaylee]

dynamics and origins of suicide OT.
valuable conversation to have, but not here.

closed.

-K

and hug somebody you love tonight.
life is more fragile than we like to believe.