Ground Shipping handgun

[dashootist]

What is the cheapest way to legally ship a handgun from Texas to Florida. My Taurus needs repair again. Probably my last Taurus.

 

[CraigC]

It's "legal" to ship ground by UPS or FedEx, although against company policy. They won't pay an insurance claim on lost items if you don't declare the contents to be a firearm. Second cheapest is for your friendly local dealer to send it by USPS. Third cheapest is to bite the bullet and send it UPS or FedEx overnight saver service. Which will cost you $50-$75. If you don't have a local dealer who will mail it, I would suggest going to the local UPS or FedEx counter, declaring the contents and then asking them what the cheapest method would be. You've effectively covered your rear, in writing and if the countermonkey does not know it's supposed to go overnight, it's on them.

 

[withdrawn34]

Why won't Taurus pick up the tab? Try asking nicely.

 

[dogtown tom]

CraigC ....I would suggest going to the local UPS or FedEx counter, declaring the contents and then asking them what the cheapest method would be. You've effectively covered your rear, in writing and if the countermonkey does not know it's supposed to go overnight, it's on them.

No, your not covering your rear as both FedEx & UPS shipping tariffs are explicit in how they require firearms (especially handguns) to be shipped. It doesn't matter one whit that the sixteen year old at the UPS Store cheerfully says "Sure, you can ship a pistol Ground...".
One, she isn't an employee of UPS,
Two, their tariffs do not allow UPS Store employees or any other third party retailer to alter their terms of carriage,
Thirdly, you would be battling UPS for your insurance claim.... not that sixteen year old that you tried to hoodwink.

 

[CraigC]

No, your not covering your rear as both FedEx & UPS shipping tariffs are explicit in how they require firearms (especially handguns) to be shipped. It doesn't matter one whit that the sixteen year old at the UPS Store cheerfully says "Sure, you can ship a pistol Ground...".
One, she isn't an employee of UPS,
Two, their tariffs do not allow UPS Store employees or any other third party retailer to alter their terms of carriage,
Thirdly, you would be battling UPS for your insurance claim.... not that sixteen year old that you tried to hoodwink.

Firstly, nobody said a single word about a UPS Store. I explicitly said "UPS Counter", which is where UPS requires firearms to be shipped from and they ARE UPS employees. Secondly, nobody is "hoodwinking" anybody. If you declare "FIREARM" on your packing slip, you have covered your rear and it is in writing.

 

[cwp3420]

I've shipped all of my firearms at the UPS counter, not the local stores. There have been no issues and the pistols have arrived where they are supposed to. No issues whatsoever except for cost!! Of course, I shipped my HK back to HK for a trigger job, and even though it cost me $65, I would have hated it had I tried to ship ground and lost a $1100 pistol!

 

[A-FIXER]

I just shipped a rifle getting some custom work done to it on monday and told them it was a rifle and when they got done with me it cost me A 122.65 TO SHIP IT.... I eked and man'd up and swallowed hard and paid for overnight, hazmat cost, insur, and what ever else they said I had to pay for......

 

[dashootist]

Yes, I shipped "ground" last time for about $11. I didn't know I wasn't suppose to, and I didn't declare it. Luckily, the gun got to Taurus safely.

I don't really care about insurance claim if the item is lost. P.O.J. Taurus.

I'm worry about is liability. What if UPS leave the package to some kid and the kid shoots himself or someelse with it? Is it equivalent to "leaving a firearm accessing by a minor", which is a crime?

 

[Harley Quinn]

Many responsibilities when owning a firearm... One of them is shipping it correctly

 

[dogtown tom]

CraigC Firstly, nobody said a single word about a UPS Store. I explicitly said "UPS Counter", which is where UPS requires firearms to be shipped from and they ARE UPS employees.

You said "local UPS counter".....and given that UPS uses the term "Customer Service Center in their tariff it is a 99% chance that one is NOT local to you. I live in a city of 250,000, yet the closest UPS Customer Service Center is 20+ miles away.......not many would consider that "local".

Again, UPS employees cannot change the tariffs.....no matter what you put on that label or what they tell you you are bound by that published tariff.

A-FIXER I just shipped a rifle getting some custom work done to it on monday and told them it was a rifle and when they got done with me it cost me A 122.65 TO SHIP IT.... I eked and man'd up and swallowed hard and paid for overnight, hazmat cost, insur, and what ever else they said I had to pay for......

You got took.
There is no UPS or FedEx requirement to ship a rifle overnight.
Firearms are NOT HazMat.

It pays (or in your case would have saved) to read the shipping policies of the carrier you choose.
UPShttp://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=handgun
FedExhttp://fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/index.html

 

[CraigC]

You said "local UPS counter".....and given that UPS uses the term "Customer Service Center in their tariff it is a 99% chance that one is NOT local to you. I live in a city of 250,000, yet the closest UPS Customer Service Center is 20+ miles away.......not many would consider that "local".

Now you're splittin' hairs for argument's sake. I recall them using the term "UPS Customer Counter". Mine is 40miles away but around here, that IS local.

Again, UPS employees cannot change the tariffs...

Of course not.

....no matter what you put on that label or what they tell you you are bound by that published tariff.

And they are required to know their own policies. If you've declared the package to contain a handgun, IT IS ON THEM IF THEY SHIP IT GROUND. Prove me wrong.

 

[wow6599]

Tell them you are shipping machined parts (not untrue), insure it for whatever value you like and ship it ground..........

 

[dogtown tom]

CraigC: If you've declared the package to contain a handgun, IT IS ON THEM IF THEY SHIP IT GROUND. Prove me wrong.

UPS "Terms of Service" (the fine print you agree to accept when you contract with UPS to ship a package.
http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf

51. Incorporation of Terms; Waiver;
Future Changes
All shipments are subject to the terms and
conditions contained in the Terms.
UPS may engage subcontractors to
perform transportation and incidental
services. UPS contracts on its own behalf
and on behalf of its servants, agents, and
subcontractors, each of whom shall have
the benefit of these Terms. No such party
has authority to waive or vary any of these
terms and conditions.

Good enough?

wow6599 Tell them you are shipping machined parts (not untrue), insure it for whatever value you like and ship it ground..........

Lying isn't High Road. A firearm is a firearm, not "machine parts". If your package of "machine parts" is lost damaged or stolen you'll get nothing on an insurance claim because you failed to abide by the common carriers tariff which expressly defines handguns the same way ATF does.

 

[wow6599]

Hey dogtown tom, read a little closer........I said "machined" parts, not machine parts. If I take the firearm apart, it's a bunch of "machined" parts.......unless it was all built by hand.

 

[brickeyee]

.I said "machined" parts, not machine parts. If I take the firearm apart, it's a bunch of "machined" parts.......unless it was all built by hand.

And you are still in violation of the contract of carriage.

 

[withdrawn34]

Tell them you are shipping machined parts (not untrue), insure it for whatever value you like and ship it ground..........

You are required by Federal law to notify a common or contract carrier that your shipment contains a firearm. In addition, you must me mindful of the definition of a firearm. Just because you take it apart doesn't make it not a firearm, legally speaking.

According to the ATF, the relevant sections of law and code are the following: [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

 

[Steve H]

If it's a warranty repair make Taurus pay the tab. If it's not warranty have you local gunsmith work on it.

 

[brickeyee]

You are required by Federal law to notify a common or contract carrier that your shipment contains a firearm.

Not of it is going to an FFL.

Read the actual law, not eh incorrect BATFE FAQ answer.

The terms of carriage DO require notification though.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger
who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported
aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition
into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such
common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without
violating any provision of this part.
(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label,
tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or
other container contains a firearm.
(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or
receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
shipment under Customs laws and regulations.
(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975,
and amended by T.D. ATF-354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF-361, 60
FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]

\
Emphasis added.

Taurus is a "licensed manufacturer."

 

[Jim K]

A-fixer didn't say what carrier charged that much, but he could have shipped a long gun via USPS for a lot less than that.

I strongly recommend making friends with your local dealer and patronizing his/her store where at all possible. Then when you have a shipping problem, you do the wrapping and packing and the dealer takes care of shipping via USPS at a very reasonable rate.

Of course, if there is no local dealer or one who really is not friendly, or if you are the kind of person who just hates dealers and won't go anywhere near a gun shop, then you will pay the price.

Jim

 

[wow6599]

You are required by Federal law to notify a common or contract carrier that your shipment contains a firearm

Negative......

Back when I messed with Kel-Tec firearms (not bashing, either.....I like the PF-9 and want to like the PMR-30) I was constantly shipping back to Cocoa and
I would ship Fed Ex and when they asked what I was shipping........"machined parts". Why pay $100 to ship a $200 gun?

 

[CraigC]

You are required by Federal law to notify a common or contract carrier that your shipment contains a firearm. In addition, you must me mindful of the definition of a firearm. Just because you take it apart doesn't make it not a firearm, legally speaking.

Wrong, for reasons stated above. The ATF FAQ is very misleading in this regard. Read the actual statute.

 

[wgsigs]

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped

I'm no lawyer, but what the passage says to me is that a firearm must be shipped only to an FFL or licensed manufacturer AND the carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm.

Also, if you are quoting the ATF regulations, a firearm is also defined as the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

 

[MachIVshooter]

what the passage says to me is that a firearm must be shipped only to an FFL or licensed manufacturer AND the carrier must be notified that the package contains a firearm

You would be wrong.

Once again:

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped:

Since a non-FFL of one state cannot ship to a non-FFL in another state anyway, this is a non-issue.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Back when I messed with Kel-Tec firearms (not bashing, either.....I like the PF-9 and want to like the PMR-30) I was constantly shipping back to Cocoa and
I would ship Fed Ex and when they asked what I was shipping........"machined parts". Why pay $100 to ship a $200 gun?

Because identifying the goods shipped as "machined parts" (if actually a handgun) and shipping by ground breaches your contract with FedEx.

FedEx's (and any common carrier's) published tariffs are part of the contract of carriage, and you, as the shipper, are legally bound by the terms of those tariffs. By failing to advice FedEx that you were shipping a handgun and by shipping that gun via ground service, you violated your contract. As a consequence, if your shipment gets lost or damaged, FedEx can, and no doubt will, successfully avoid any liability therefor.

 

[Harley Quinn]

You can dance around it...

Sending to get it repaired, contact who you are sending to, follow instructions, if they tell you to lie, why would you send to them

Like mentioned, maybe a qualified Gunny is best, if close, no shipping, otherwise still same issue, shipping is not cheap Cheap firearms and discarding might be best???