Groups 25 yd 9mm 1911 with Titegroup powder

[chiltech500]

From the first shots of my Springfield Armory 1911 in 9mm, my sense was it was not very accurate at 25 yards. The purpose of buying it was twofold, curiosity about using a 9mm as the middle gun in Bullseye Pistol and if not successful, using it as the base for a 22 conversion for competition.

(PICS ARE BELOW)

Have been working varied OAL's,crimp, bullet types, and loads of Titegroup to acheive maximum accuracy. Lead was ruled out rather quickly and the best results have been using 124gr Berrys plated THP (target hollow point) and 124gr JHP's that were "pulled" from RPR. The pulled bullets are great for self defense purposes because they are in great shape with the only real signs of being loaded prior are rings from the original crimp (approx 1.070 if curious).

The 124gr Berrys THP has been the more accurate performer of the two. Possibly because it is taller which allows more of a bearing surface to be utilized.

I will be trying a few more combinations to find the optimal accuracy of Titegroup, between 4.0gr and 4.2gr and OAL's between 1.095 and 1.080 OAL's. The longest practical OAL that will feed is 1.095 though the barrel would take a longer OAL and the bullet is tall enough to allow it.

Below right I took a 6th shot because the rest moved, and on the low part of the target there are actually 2 bullet holes which are so close together they look like 1 larger hole.



Below photo 124 gr THP]s are on the left and JHP's on the right.

 

[LiveLife]

I would be happy with those shot groups at 25 yards.

I would do more practice to see if I could reduce the group size before ditching the pistol and load.

Have you done a trigger job on the pistol?

 

[huntershooter]

I've had a couple SA 9 mm's.
Check your slide stop pin to see if slide stop is bearing on the barrel lugs, or just riding the link. There will be obvious burnish/wear marks on the slide stop pin; one in the dead center if link is too long, two on either side of center if the pin is engaging the barrel lugs.
Both of my 9 mm SA's rode the link-with zero bearing on the barrel lugs.
In short; the link was too long.
I think SA does this because one of the first things a new "gun guy" learns is to press down on the barrel hood, while in battery, to see if there is movement--which kinda sorta indicates tight barrel lock up.
The long link gives the illusion of tight barrel lockup; but sure as hell isn't the way to fit a barrel and results in less than optimum accuracy (not to mention premature failure of the link).

 

[mboylan]

If you are loading for accuracy, invest in better bullets. It makes a big difference. Jacketed bullets are much more accurate than plated. Try Montana Gold or Sierra.

You can also try switching powders to Bullseye or VV N320. Loading a little bit below max tends to produce better accuracy.

 

[chiltech500]

Thanks for all the input. bds, these were shot from a Hyskore rest, so yes free hand I would be ok with that, except that I have shot better groups with a 45 freehand. The pistol has a 2 1/2 lb trigger job done by Chuck Warner, and huntershooter, this SA was to be used as the base for a 22 conversion. I am shooting the 9mm as a form of dry fire practice.

As mentioned prior, I've given up on 9mm as a Bullseye level round, and no one uses them in Bullseye because they never quite get accurate enough, and serious bullseye shooters have really given it a serious try.

Really I am just trying to get what accuracy I can with what is designated 9mm use for me. As to jacketed, you might notce the JHP's I'm using are NOT as accurate as the plated. I won't waste my better powders on 9mm as I will use them with .38 and .45, straight walled cases used for superior accuracy. Titegroup is a powder I had as backup during this shortage and it's dubbed the 9mm powder

Of interesting note to me, is after I used the rest for the 9mm groups in the 1st picture, I took out my stock Dan Wesson 45 and shot a better group freehand than using the rest for the 9's.

 

[Canuck-IL]

One of the serious Bullseye people - a commercial ammo loader that specializes in BE- posted the following notes about 9mm for BE.

"OK, so, now you want the secret load. I kept you waiting long enough. The load is a Hornady XTP 9-115 gr JHP bullet, sitting on top of 4.8 grs of VihtaVuori N330, a Winchester WSP primer, and a new case. The OAL is 1.08".

With a Sierra 9-115 FMJ RN or Winchester 9-115 FMJ HB bullet (buy them from Midway USA), for those of you that are looking for the ball load, the same formula as above, except the OAL is 1.130-1.140" (depending on your barrel throat and reamer), will hold under 1" at 50 yards.

That's it, now you have all of our research done for the last few years. Mr xxx [name redacted] has a pet load too that uses the 9-147 XTP (4.2 grains of VV330 w/147 Hornady XTP OAL 1.140" .Just a note; The AMI match ammo has an OAL of 1.120 with the 147 XTP), but our load out shot it.

OMT, the AMU, through Atlanta Arms, has developed an outstanding load using the Sierra 9-115 FMJ RN (#8115) and Winchester WSF (5.8-6.2) and an OAL of 1.30".

The WW manual uses WSF for 9mm 115 hp 5.2-5.7gr.,124 lrn 4.0-4.7, 147 lfp 3.7-4.1, 147 fmj 3.9-4.3, 147jhp 4.0-4.3.

WSF works very well in 9mm 115 g FMJ loads of the sort that you would use for CMP competitions. Mountain Competition [substituted name] recommends it as a standard load for the Mountain Competition modifications to the Beretta M9 /92 FS at 4.8 or 5.0 grains. Atlanta Arms has a 50 yd load using 5.2 grains.

Plated bullets are not even to be considered. If accuracy is the goal."
= = =
Step 1 for a serious BE 9mm load is a 24 or 32 twist barrel vs the 16 that is standard in the SA. Step 2 is skip the plated bullets. And 3 is - they like to move along pretty smartly!

/Bryan

 

[chiltech500]

Thanks Canuk, great info.

I do have Hornaday XTP 124gr JHP's and they are taller than the pulled JHP's used for these tests, I just remembered I had some last evening. The longer body shape of the XTP's would allow a greater bearing surface.

He raises an important point about the barrel on the SA 1911, which I have believed since receiving the pistol was inaccurate. New barrel and accurized this pistol would have a chance of doing better than it is now.