Gun care sequel - you need to read this

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ohbythebay

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Mod's - please leave this available a bit..people need to see this warning

well special thanks to DIY_guy for the awesome testing. As such, based on the results I decided to get the Hornady One Shot HD-Extreme. I think its important to have these separate reviews and you will find out later in this :Be careful what you ask for...you might get more than you expect".

Overview
I set out to completely clean and lube 3 guns. They were

  • Bersa Thunder 380
  • Glock 19 Gen 4
  • S&W M&P 15 .223
By clean and lube I mean a complete strip down, firing pins, ejectors, etc. All the usual tools but the only cleaning and lubing product was the Hornady's.

The process
Every piece I could got soaked in the stuff and cleaned. Then recleaned and left as a lube. It goes on as an aerosol spray and evaporates sort of like lacquer thinner. What is left behind feels clean and smooth like graphite, not oil.

The good news
As a cleaner, it works VERY well.

As a lube, if you are used to and like a slight oily feel, don't buy this product. There is nothing oily in any way. Everything just feels smooth and when finished, the actions feel very easy and crisp. Like a brand new gun. Nice feeling.

What remains to be seen is how it holds up to shooting and if there is any wear. That's all the good news.

The bad news
Not too bad but it took 3/4's of a can to do 3 guns. Not so bad if you really like it but can be pricey.

The really bad news is come to find out it is toxic and flammable as hell.
Most aerosol type cleaners are flammable and I can live with that.

Many cleaning products can be toxic but this is up there with PCB's and Mercury.


The main ingredient is n-hexane (check the link) which is some REALLY bad stuff. I don't wear gloves to clean (or a gas mask) and turns out I should have worn both. *see footnote

Even the can warns of many things and sounds like one of those commercials that say you can get allergy relief but may suffer itching, rash, blindness, infertility, explosive diarrhea, organ failure and rectal bleeding.

While I see how the formulation works as an intensive cleaner, I do not see lubricant ingredients where I should see some dry material that is suspended in the formulation - the other is

CAS-68476-86-6
Petroleum gases,liquefied, sweetened

Anyway...still researching that one...I think I may stick with lots of cleaning and petroleum products. Mobile 1 has not killed anyone yet. :D

The moral is - check the stuff out before you buy. Gun care is important but you health matters more.


Footnote
The acute toxicity of n-hexane is rather low. However, it has been reported to be the most highly toxic member of the alkanes. When n-hexane is ingested, it causes nausea, vertigo, bronchial irritation, intestinal irritation and CNS effects. It has been reported that ~ 50 g of n-hexane may be fatal to humans. Furthermore, n-hexane is biotransformed to 2-hexanol and further to 2,5-hexanediol by cytochrome P450 mixed function oxidases by omega oxidation. 2,5-Hexanediol may be further oxidized to 2,5-hexanedione, which is neurotoxic and produces a polyneuropathy.[8]

n-Hexane is also used as a solvent in the extraction of oil from seeds (soybean, cottonseed, flaxseed, safflower seed, and others). It is sometimes used as a denaturant for alcohol, and as a cleaning agent in the textile, furniture, and leather industries. It is slowly being replaced with other less toxic solvents.[8]

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended exposure limit is 50 ppm (180 mg m−3), expressed as an 8 h time-weighted average (TWA).[8] A peer reviewed study found that inhalation of n-Hexane at 5000 ppm for 10 minutes produces marked vertigo; 2500-1000 ppm for 12 hours produces drowsiness, fatigue, loss of appetite, paresthesia in distal extremities; 2500-500 ppm produces muscle weakness, cold pulsation in extremities, blurred vision, headache and anorexia.[9]
 
And...

The moral is - check the stuff out before you buy. Gun care is important but you health matters more.

Mercury for example might do wonders for your barrel. But I don't want to handle it.
 
While the time you spent writing this is appreciated, wouldn't it have been easier to say, don't eat cleaning chemicals or use without gloves.

ill stick to my rem oil and hoppes.
 
True...BUT

1) You would not know how well it worked
2) You would not know the details of the toxicity

Windex can be toxic and so can 409...but handling it and breathing it won't cause nerve damage. Its not about don't drink chemicals. Its about how toxic a particular chemical is and if I have to wear gloves and a mask, I am not too keen on the product even if it cleans well.
 
Hexane isn't particularly hazardous as long as you use good ventilation and you don't heat it. It is orders of magnitude less toxic than Mercury (about 300x) so hyperbolic references to them go too far in making the point that precautions like gloves and ventilation should be followed. References to drinking, or any other form of exposure not relevant to use undermine the argument.

Overstating a hazard is the surest way to have people who can read an MSDS discount the valid point that we should always understand what we're using, use any solvent in good ventilation, know whether there's a contact notation motivating us to use gloves, and keep the safety glasses over our eyes instead of on the bench.
 
Not to argue with a mod

That can be toxic also...lol

but n-hexane IS very toxic. No, not as toxic as Mercury but not 300x less so. Its toxicity is measured in PPM (parts per million) *see footnote

My entire point was it seems to be a very good cleaner but much like using dry cleaning fluid comes with a price in terms of how caustic it is to you. so maybe I would try Frog lube or one of the other top 5 from the tests that are less toxic.

I clean my guns often (two to 3 time a week depending on range time) and don't want a product requiring gloves, mask, goggles...

So isn't that worth sharing ?


* The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended exposure limit is 50 ppm (180 mg m−3), expressed as an 8 h time-weighted average (TWA).[8] A peer reviewed study found that inhalation of n-Hexane at 5000 ppm for 10 minutes produces marked vertigo; 2500-1000 ppm for 12 hours produces drowsiness, fatigue, loss of appetite, paresthesia in distal extremities; 2500-500 ppm produces muscle weakness, cold pulsation in extremities, blurred vision, headache and anorexia
 
Okay I surrender

I guess you guys don't understand what a neurotoxin is..so due diligence has been served and I guess we can close this out.

*Nerotoxins are poisons that act on the nervous system. They inhibit the function of neurons, which are the cells in the nervous system. Neurotoxins are an underlying cause of disease and have been undiagnosed by medical community. Neurotoxins are absorbed through the nerve endings then travel inside the neuron to the cell body. The body tries to get rid of them through usual elimination. Some examples of neurotoxin sources include heavy metals, food preservatives, mercury, aspartame, and food colorings
 
ohbythebay said:
Mod's - please leave this available a bit..people need to see this warning



Anyway...still researching that one...I think I may stick with lots of cleaning and petroleum products. Mobile 1 has not killed anyone yet. :D

The moral is - check the stuff out before you buy. Gun care is important but you health matters more.


Footnote
The acute toxicity of n-hexane is rather low. However, it has been reported to be the most highly toxic member of the alkanes. When n-hexane is ingested, it causes nausea, vertigo, bronchial irritation, intestinal irritation and CNS effects. It has been reported that ~ 50 g of n-hexane may be fatal to humans. Furthermore, n-hexane is biotransformed to 2-hexanol and further to 2,5-hexanediol by cytochrome P450 mixed function oxidases by omega oxidation. 2,5-Hexanediol may be further oxidized to 2,5-hexanedione, which is neurotoxic and produces a polyneuropathy.[8]

n-Hexane is also used as a solvent in the extraction of oil from seeds (soybean, cottonseed, flaxseed, safflower seed, and others). It is sometimes used as a denaturant for alcohol, and as a cleaning agent in the textile, furniture, and leather industries. It is slowly being replaced with other less toxic solvents.[8]

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended exposure limit is 50 ppm (180 mg m−3), expressed as an 8 h time-weighted average (TWA).[8] A peer reviewed study found that inhalation of n-Hexane at 5000 ppm for 10 minutes produces marked vertigo; 2500-1000 ppm for 12 hours produces drowsiness, fatigue, loss of appetite, paresthesia in distal extremities; 2500-500 ppm produces muscle weakness, cold pulsation in extremities, blurred vision, headache and anorexia.[9]
Click to expand...

So? Don't drink it! Or huff it. Gasoline is rather bad for you if you drink it, or huff it also.

Almost everything in a great enough quantity is poisonous at some level. Have you ever heard of "dihydrogen monoxide" poisoning?

Actually dihydogen monoxide (DHMO) is just water, but water poisoning is real. Too much will upset the electrolyte levels in your body and can result in death, as one unfortunate Radio Station found out during a promotional contest. The dose is the poison!

While I appreciate the effort and good intentions, I see no reason to avoid the use of this product as long as appropriately used.
 
Jorge...

I didn't think the folks here wanted to wade through this
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp113.pdf

ATSDR is the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

I evaluated the product. I liked the results. I simply pointed out its pretty toxic. Period. If no one wants to take that serious, oh well. I don't feel bad for pointing it out but as I can see...No good deed goes unpunished

By the way, http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/hp.asp is not an acupuncture clinic...not sure where you are getting that our just being facetious.
 
"Minimum/Potential Fatal Human Dose

Concentrations of about 50 g may be fatal to humans. ..."

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=8058#x321

Fwiw, 50 g is 1.76 ounces.

Isn't nitrobenzene a neurotoxin, too? I had my hands in that stuff off and on for 30 or more years - back when Hoppe's #9 contained it. Smells good, too. And it worked better, but that was 30 years ago. Actually, until quite recently #9 was still available with retailer-added nitrobenzene. Oh well, there's danger everywhere.

John

edited to add: Back in the late '50s my cousins' dentist in Charlottesville gave each kid a shiny dime if they behaved. I was visiting once and got one too - each dime had enough mercury on it to get a little drop off it. They were fun to play with. I probably bought a Coke with mine eventually.
 
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John

Would you rather argue to think your right or would you rather open your mind to the fact that in all cases, this stuff is toxic ?

1.76oz - fatal - How much to be toxic ? Much less. It passes the blood/brain barrier and causes neurological issues. It is absorbed through the skin and through the pulmonary tract to enter the body. It causes infertility and worse, causes damage to unborn babies. These are facts, not urban myths. Just because other products have side effects does not negate the danger of this.

This is what I can't understand. I post a warning (without bashing the product because it worked very well). No different than saying "The Glock 19 performs very well but be cautious because a) Its a gun b) no manual safety "

I prefer not to further expose myself, doesn't mean others can't use it but take precautions, yes ? Why the persistent rebuttals instead of "Thanks Bay for looking into the risks"...Sheesh
 
Exactly

At 54 years old I was looking for affirmation from total strangers who I don't know and will never see - NOT

This is inherent in so many boards. The lack of respect for others knowledge just because they are not part of the "club". I do not pretend to know ALOT about guns so I come here to learn and have gleaned quite a bit, it is appreciated.

But out of respect, I would never disparage something someone wrote or make light of it like the person doesn't know what they are talking about. You don't know me. You don't know if I am a biochemist or a sanitation worker. Yet, the information was treated as if I cried wolf.

Like I said before, no good deed goes unpunished and if that is the caliber of the members of this board, I think I will promote myself to lurker and reader as opposed to participant.

Look at my signature line...are you living up to what your dog thinks of you ?
 
I appreciate the review and warning. I will stick to the Hoppes and CLP. That stuff has always worked well for me and don't see a need to try any new pricey super duper stuff...especially aerosol. Plus, after personal familial history with neurotoxicity related illness, I try my best to stay away from chemicals and fumes as much as humanly possible, regardless of how benign or minute concentration it is.
 
By the way, http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/hp.asp is not an acupuncture clinic...not sure where you are getting that our just being facetious.
Click to expand...
Your definition of neurotoxins was verbatim from the ask.com page I cited, including the misspelling of neurotoxins. The reference for that answer is http://healingpartnership.com/ which is the site I linked and is an acupuncture clinic. They also provide services such as Energy Psychotherapy and Quantum Neurology Rehabilitation.

While there certainly is danger involved with some of these chemicals, I'd certainly prefer to have the actual scientific studies rather than someone bolding and underlining something copied from a questionable source.
 
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I've read somewhere that lead is bad for you... especially in concentrations of 230 grains... but even as little as 30-40 grains can ruin your day!
 
CWL I saw a man once who was dying of lead poisoning, he had 6 holes that dotted his midsection, just appeared out of nowhere.
 
ohbythebay said:
Like I said before, no good deed goes unpunished and if that is the caliber of the members of this board, I think I will promote myself to lurker and reader as opposed to participant.

Look at my signature line...are you living up to what your dog thinks of you ?
Click to expand...

Don't do that ohbythebay. Some of us appreciate your sincerity in attempting to give a warning we don't necessarily agree is needed. Thank you for showing concern. Try to remember that some dogs no matter how politely fed will sometimes bite the hand that feeds them. Most however, appreciate the offer of food even it they find it unpalatable. Don't let a few trivial bites keep you from howling with the pack.
 
Nom.de_forum

Thanks ...I have a pretty thick skin and can certainly dish as well as get. I tend to avoid that on boards so as not to get a bad rep as a PITA

I can howl with the best (My 47 years in NY) but have tempered it with the last 7 years in the PNW...rounded edges my wife calls it...LOL
 
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