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Gun Club Sued

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by win71, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. win71

    win71 Member

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    I'm not personally going to comment on this for a couple reasons. One, I lived in the community and two, I was a member of the club. Since I was nine miles out to sea fishing for salmon at the time of the incident I have no other information.
    It is fairly common for Cal Fire to bill a responsibility party in any fire they respond to if negligent or illegal activity is the proximate cause. Lawn mower blades hitting rocks causing sparks, dozer blades scrapping rocks, safety chains dragging on the highway, you name it.
    For those reasons this action is not out of the normal operating procedures for that agency.
     
  2. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    Get ahold of the NRA maybe they can help. start a fund raiser.
     
  3. ltetmhs

    ltetmhs Member

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    Hope they didn't scuff up his house with their jackboots.

    Sounds like Kali is just trying to blame gun owners for all their problems. Next they'll say fires were started by hunters (they'll make sure and stress that part), or maybe they'll blame it on global warming or suv's (they'll sue chevy/ford). My money is on one of Pelosi's farts :D. If a tracer/incindiery round caused the fire, then wouldn't it have started right then?
     
  4. BillyBothHands

    BillyBothHands Member

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    ok maybe its too late and my brain isn't snapping properly, but what would FMJ have to do with starting a brush fire?
     
  5. CRITGIT

    CRITGIT member

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    Typical nonsense from those who are anything but objective about CA and the matter of fire. We've had several fires which started at ranges during our summer months. Most BLM and responsible local ranges close areas to shooting which are in explosive fire areas.
    Unlike Georgia or other regions of the country we don't get rain in the summer months. Temps just this week reached 114 and little or no humidity. This year the last appreciable rain was in April. Our forest including the area referenced have been on fire since mid June leaving many homeless and ruined financially. Hospitals throughout N CA have been jambed young and old alike due to their inescapably smoke. As recently as the Tues before last a firefighting helicopter went down killing 9 of the firefighters and injuring others. These deaths are not the first of our fire season nor will they be the last I'm afraid.
    Responsible gun enthusiast don't need to be told when it's irresponsible to shoot in these areas with the current conditions.
    BTW, most of the dead were from other states frantically working to contain these fires. If you start a fire here, whether it be intentional or just plain irresponsible behavior the best that can happen to you is to be sued and/or incarcerated. The other possibility is rather ugly!

    May those who gave their lives for us know everlasting peace!

    GRITGIT
     
  6. ltetmhs

    ltetmhs Member

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    First and foremost I cannot agree more that the firefighters are truly heroes. And the victims of the fire have my utmost sympathies.

    If it was tracers / or incindiery's then it was indeeed irresponsible, and the person that shot them should be held responsible for their actions. Why would Cal gov't go after the gun club instead of the shooter? That's like going after a landlord because one of his tenant's left and candle lit. The landlord can tell them not to have open flames, but he can't keep people from being irresponsible.
     
  7. Majic

    Majic Member

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    Why go after the manufactor instead of the individual committing the crime with the gun? Take a guess at who potentially has the most money?
     
  8. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    If they know where the fire started, then they should be able to produce the round that started it.

    It always works on TV right?
     
  9. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Lawnmower blade hitting rocks?

    Like anything California does, it does it to extremes.

    If you choose to live and build in the forest, then you'll have to deal with fires just as those who choose to live and build next to a river deal with floods.

    Next the California cops will be billing people for comming to the house to investigate a breakin and finding a window was left open, the homeowner will be made to pay.

    The reason why there are so many fires is the brush is not allowed to burn off from natural fires because of people living there.

    Just another way to shut down the range or make the insurance company pay.
     
  10. Steve N

    Steve N Member

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    I can see how a tracer round can start a fire, but how can a FMJ create a spark? Is there enough friction when a copper-jacketed bullet hits a rock to shave off the jacket, and cause the copper to ignite? If a bullet hit a steel plate, I could see some steel shavings flaking off, and possibly igniting.
     
  11. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    From what you know of the physical circumstances of the club, its members, and the operations, how strong or weak a case do you think Cal Fire has?

    You aren't a member anymore? Why is that?
     
  12. dalepres

    dalepres Member

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    Perhaps they can sue Billy Graham for the lightning started fires?
     
  13. Bushwhacker

    Bushwhacker Member

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    One more reason I'll never set foot in kali-land
     
  14. win71

    win71 Member

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    Fcfc

    It's a small club. For years it was open for anybody to shoot. No gates, no people. There are two trap fields with almost no growth, dead or green, and covered with so many broken targets you couldn't get a fire going with a road flare. There are 5 or so covered benches at the rifle range . Shooting is up a dug out portion of a natural draw and is clean to mineral earth. The backstop is mostly dirt with some small stones. Behind that is several thousand acres of growth common to the elevation, 2500' approximately. It's a mountain and rises over 1000'. That range is 100 yards. There is one target up on the hillside on an improved pad at 200 yards with a dirt road up to it. Shots fired while standing at targets closer than 50 yards will cause ground ricochets to end up on the mountain somewhere.
    Membership is $10 per year and like most small clubs it's like pulling teeth to get people out there on clean-up day. It's a rural area, some members live 30-40 miles away.
    I'm not a member now because I moved to an adjacent town approximately 60 miles away and joined the local club. Believe it or not I moved partially because of the fires over the years. I had a wooden house with a shake roof, 2 story. I was evacuated twice in 15 years. Fires burned right up to the town of Weaverville more than once.

    I don't know any more than what's in this article but I do know something about evidence and prosecution. On the surface it doesn't look like Cal Fire has got much. Past experience with these types of things, i.e. lawn mower strikes etc. indicates the case is usually satisfied with whatever amount the guilty parties homeowners policy covers.

    In defense of Cal Fire and the state I think it's somewhat financial caused. The state is about broke and always is. These fires are expensive to fight. If someone does something to cause one they will go after the money.

    Incidentally, the USFS enforcement officers shoot there regularly and I would guess a large percentage of the club members are volunteer firemen so it's not like there were a bunch of naive firebugs running around with guns for the past 50 or 60 years at that range.
     
  15. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    I'm thinkin' that there are more facts and evidence that will come out and only the jury will hear it all. They will have to be the decision maker on whether or not the suit has merit. We are working with partial evidence and biased statements by the various parties.
    I agree with several of the posters that the gun club should seek help from the NRA and/or have fund raisers to pay for the legal defence which is inevitable.
     
  16. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    First of all, tracers ain't illegal, are they? They are legal here.

    Second, what's FMJ got to do with anything? That doesn't start fires.

    Third, if the sherrif's deputies shoot there, then I assume the county is named as a defendant in the lawsuit too?

    Last, if there's negligence, there's negligence. Fire is a big problem, and if some idgits start a fire by shooting into dry brush with tracers, knowing full well of the danger, then maybe they should pay up (or more specifically, their insurance carrier). Our gun club has a specific rule against tracers for this very reason (fire), and unlike Calif, we don't have really any problem with perpetual drought and fire seasons. Sounds like it may have been quite foreseeable to me. Whether there was indeed negligence on the part of the RO in failing to supervise is up to the jury.
     
  17. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    "Hope they didn't scuff up his house with their jackboots."

    Or shoot his dogs.
     
  18. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Thanks for the insights and additional info, win71. It's a little more fleshed out now.
     
  19. azhunter122

    azhunter122 Member

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    Wow that's screwed up. I also thought that guns starting fires was a myth. Guess I learned something today.
     
  20. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Here in Arkansas the OFGC had to instituted a rule banning incendiary and tracer bullets due to a fire being started by them a couple years back.
     
  21. CRITGIT

    CRITGIT member

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    No more calls! We have a winner. Another unbiased opinion of CA!!!!!!:eek:
    Without any local knowledge of the area, it's forests, it's policies and politics and the burn belt proximity to towns and cities we have an authority and defender of the wealthiest entities in the country...the insurance companies.:eek::D

    The area referenced has nothing in common with the cultures of the cities to it's south. This is a pro hunting , pro gun area.
    Cal Fire and any other fire dept in CA will pursue all and any persons or entities responsible for causing a fire especially when life and property are lost.
    Just because a gun club is named as a "doe" doesn't mean they are guilty.
    I would hope all responsible states would follow suit........Whoops!

    Range and forest fires have been started at various gun ranges/club in the area.
    BLM and responsible ranges suspend shooting when temps get over 100 for prolong periods here. In the mountains near Weaverville, Junction City and Lewiston those thresholds are lower. Many have had a policy of no shooting after 12.00 noon when these conditions exist.


    Bashing, scapegoating and misrepresenting CA and it's people for everything in the world that some see as "unholy" is a little like posting that all folks from the south marry their sisters....Neither is probably accurate!

    CRITGIT
     
  22. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    How are they going to prove that it was caused by a bullet? That doesn't seem possible that they could prove that. In any event, it is a public range, the police use that range... How do they know that the fire broke out the day of the shoot and not later or sooner??

    I guess on one hand I don't mind the trying to recoup some expenses, but my goodness, *** do we pay taxes for?
     
  23. Happiness Is A Warm Gun

    Happiness Is A Warm Gun Member

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    Why are people confused on the FMJ issue.

    The fire department is saying that the fire was caused by a tracer round.
    The gun owner is saying he only shoots FMJ.

    Nobody (neither side) is saying the FMJ round caused the fire.
     
  24. gregormeister

    gregormeister Member

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    Where this all went wrong?..."California" ofcourse....Oh and before its disputed I lived there thats how I know its where the whole problem lies..
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2008
  25. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I remember a cease fire at Knob Creek one very hot and dry Machine Gun Shoot because skipping tracers started a fire up on the hill and that fire started to spread into the surrounding tinder dry woods. If not for some very quick action the fire could have spread and become a very serious problem.

    Why would the club be named? Because of the club sponsored shoot that is being treated as the potential source of the fire. THR members participating in THR sponsored get-togethers make sure that liability insurance is in place before finalizing plans because of the potential for THR as an organization being named in a law suite.
     
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