Gun Club Sued

[BigO01]

Typical California BS the state is broke due to all of the Social Programs especially for illegals and want to find a way to gouge people with money to pay for any and everything .

I recall a news program "perhaps 60 minutes" years ago where a older retired couple vacationing through the state in their Winnebago and a pull behind car on a trailer for when they were at campgrounds .

The Car had a blow out that eventually the tire shredded off of the wheel .

They were literally on the side of a winding mountain on a 2 lane road going downhill and had to travel several miles until they reached a place to pull over off of the road .

The state was suing them for millions because they claimed the metal wheel on the ground threw sparks into the brush and caused a forest fire and the state of California was calling it negligence .

If they had stopped sooner to change the tire they would have caused an accident with someone coming down the mountain and around a blind curve and probably gotten killed and caused the death of any driver that would have hit them and perhaps that of any oncoming drivers .

 

[SSN Vet]

Why would Cal gov't go after the gun club instead of the shooter?

because they want some money....

and the individuals likely don't have a liability policy that will shell out $6 million.

the club on the other hand, likely does.

 

[CRITGIT]

Shame on Cal Fire for pursuing the cause and perpetrators of a fire.
Shame on them for trying to recoup money for costs to save the tax payers from coughin' it up.
Shame on not knowing the difference between the culture in the extreme north end of the state and the rest of it.
...and FMJ's have started fires at two or more of the ranges in this area without major damage or subsequent litigation.
Shame on blaming all your troubles on "gov & business sanctioned" illegals.
Hell, "cheap", or even better "free" is an American institution now.
CA has more wealthy folks now than ever...they just don't pay taxes anymore. It goes something like this: The rich don't need or want public programs because they don't need them. No parks, schools, etc. Without taxes there's no funding, and subsequently they're are no programs.
One thing the anti tax folks have learned........... they need is fire protection!
So it's a priority in CA. Fire starters whether intentional or otherwise are just a half a rung up on the badboy ladder than child molesters here.
That's why responsible gunners here are prudently observing no shoot times within their clubs. Sounds simple enough, huh?

CRITGIT

 

[damien]

Was the club incorporated? I would hope so, that would protect the owners from personal liability.

******** added that his home was searched after the fire and there was nothing to support the allegation - just something vague about a microscopic paint chip on a used firearm he bought that "could have been" consistent with red tips of incendiary rounds. He noted that he has not been criminally charged.

Even if it was shown the firearm had been used to shoot a tracer, they would have to prove that it happened in California. Tracers are legal most everywhere from the Mississippi on west, other than CA.

The whole article is here:

http://www.trinityjournal.com/news/2008/0813/front_page/001.html

 

[Henry Bowman]

Second, what's FMJ got to do with anything? That doesn't start fires.

All projectiles cause sparks to fly upon impact (with any material) in Hollywood movies. Hollywood is in California. Therefore, . . .

 

[Mk VII]

If the club has insurance it's in the insurer's hands whether to fight or settle....unless they abandon the insurance company and fight it on their own dime.

 

[FCFC]

I'm trying to figure out what basis was used to search the home of Raymond Harris, the range master. That seems pretty interesting.

Otherwise, it is just a liability case. The plaintiff will make its case and the club (and its insurance company) will defend.

Hard to say whether the club or Harris or his kid or any combination thereof is legally liable for the fire. If they are, the insurance will have to pay off. If the club doesn't have enough insurance, then it is in financial trouble.

 

[fireflyfather]

If you choose to live and build in the forest, then you'll have to deal with fires just as those who choose to live and build next to a river deal with floods.

Forgive me, but that's either deliberately flippant, or just plain ignorant. San Diego had fires last year that started up in the mountains, and pushed west to within a mile or two of the OCEAN, and similar fires a few years back. Take a look at google maps, and you will see that people's homes were in danger thirty or forty MILES from where the fires started. These homes were in urban/suburban areas. If you've ever seen the movie Top Gun, then visualize the bushes at the end of the base runway on fire. That'll give you a pretty good idea of how big a deal fire is here in California. That said, I find it highly unlikely that it was a ricochet from FMJ that started the fire at that range, nor do they have any real evidence *that has been presented here in this thread* that it was a tracer. Plenty of other things can start fires in the mountains, even a glass coke bottle lying in the sun could do it during fire season.

 

[jaholder1971]

Why are people confused on the FMJ issue.

The fire department is saying that the fire was caused by a tracer round.
The gun owner is saying he only shoots FMJ.

Nobody (neither side) is saying the FMJ round caused the fire

Some American ammunition FMJ is steel. I've seen Remington UMC .45 hardball and Winchester White box 7.62mm that the bullets would stick to a magnet. If this stuff smacks a rock, yes it can spark.

I've also seen Talon .30/06 labeled ball that was actually tracer with the paint removed from the tip. How'd we find out? It started a fire at an NRA sporting rifle match.

I've sent sparks fly from my Yugo SKS shooting Wolf ammo at rocks. All it takes is one spark in the right place to start a fire.

Fire investigators are very good in tracking back the sources of a wildfire. All they have to do is walk backwards and track the burn trail back. We had a bad wildfire here about 14 years ago and they were able to track back right to which 55 gallon burn barrel got knocked over.

 

[ltetmhs]

Critgit--

Comparing accidental fire bugs to child molesters seems completely ridiculous to say the least wherever you are.

Educate me, since the suit is being brought on by the state, how can you argue the differences between you generally fine folks in the north and cal's "cities to the south" .

 

[CRITGIT]

Forgive me, but that's either deliberately flippant, or just plain ignorant. San Diego had fires last year that started up in the mountains, and pushed west to within a mile or two of the OCEAN, and similar fires a few years back. __________________
I'm going with the latter rather than the former!
..and once again fires at ranges within 75 miles of this range have started via the fired FMJ. That's not a myth but rather reality! I know it's tough to reconcile but work through it........... slowly.
Weaverville is a rather ultra conservative community which has an interesting gold rush history. A great American town!
This might help a few here.
http://snowcrest.net/wb6fzh/tchist2.html

CRITGIT