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Gun Culture - 1994 vs 2014

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by eocoolj, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Onmilo

    Onmilo Mentor

    Jul 26, 2004
    I think Mossberg has said it best with their new "Mossberg Modern Rifle" which is their take on the AR15 rifle. The guns aren't "Assault Rifles" anymore. They are modern hunting and sport weapons legitimately used and owned by Millions of shooters all over the country.

    What struck me most about the 1994 ban was that it allowed domestic manufacture of the weapons to continue with some minor changes to "Evil" features while eliminating ALL import competition.
    It also created an Us verses Them mentality by allowing Police and Security forces to have all the goodies common folk were no longer allowed and it solved nothing in the end.

    Fact is, an American government cannot totally "Ban" anything firearm related, it would violate the Constitutional rights set down for American citizens. They can just make the stuff difficult to obtain or prohibitively expensive.
  2. poco loco

    poco loco New Member

    Nov 25, 2008
    Ar-15 variants are being sold at Wal-Mart here. I really think we have won the messaging war.

    They are a mainstream weapon now unlike in 94, I do not think there are enough Democratic Senators or Congresscritters willing to sign on to even get something to the Presidents desk. Carolyn McCarthy will keep introducing the same bill with the same 13 sponsors and it will keep dieing in conference. Never even get to a vote.

    The Dems well remember 94 and the number calling for bans or onerous restrictions are a small fraction of the Democratic Base. In fact it seems to me that they get more publicity from us than they do people who actually favor more controls than exist now. There are too many of us pro RKBA Democrats who are willing to stand up and say no, they do not have a free, zero push back audience like they did have.

    Plus keep in mind it was Reagan who signed the Mulford act in California. Neither party can just be trusted, everything needs to be double verified because given the chance, imo, either major party would pass heavy gun control if they could. The real divide is not between Republicans and Democrats, it is between the 99% and the 1% and Plutocrats always like a docile unarmed populace. Much easier to control.
  3. barnbwt

    barnbwt Mentor

    Aug 14, 2011
    We've finally got the proletariat access to neutered 50-year-old technology. We have definitely won our objectives. Until weapons are judged not by the color of their frames, but by the character of their owners, we have not won anything permanent.

    Case in point is the ban on new full-auto guns. It was a logical leap in technology (foreseen centuries ago) no less dangerous (probably less so) than the advent of smokeless powder. The govt saw us fit to wield guns with powerful propellants, ergo they had no right to draw an arbitrary line in the sand based on further technological innovation. But the guns were successfully portrayed as tools of gangsters and subversives, and the public joyfully embraced their supposed salvation.

    Imagine if computer technology was restricted to 50 year old hardware, in the interest of protecting our federal offices from hackers :scrutiny:. Powerful computers, after all, were developed solely for military interests...

  4. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Senior Elder

    Dec 29, 2002
    Los Anchorage
    It's going to be tough to get people to change their views on full auto. Pointing out that mass shootings would be LESS deadly with the murderers spraying rounds on FA doesn't seem to make much headway, even if it's true. The best that can be hoped for is a reopening of the registry at some point. On the plus side, there's a lot more short barreled uppers being put together under ATF rules than there used to be, at least from what I've seen. The fact that the ATF has two old spinsters working on all the applications and a 6+ month turnaournd is something that should be addressed.
  5. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Participating Member

    Apr 16, 2009
    South of Hell....Michigan.
    I was a teenager during that time in Northern Michigan. The hunting rifle of choice in that area during that time? A Chinese or Russian SKS. You couild get one cheap at that time and I know lots of people who had one as their first rifle. I also remember seeing more than a few AK's (with 5 round mags) in the area. They just made sense and were sensibly priced for the most part.

    After the ban, there were many very angry residents in that area. I would say that it did more to radicalize people than anything I can remember. I knew people who were toying with the idea of "canning" (packing them in grease and sealing them in PVC and burying them. I knew at least one person who did this) rifles so the government wouldn't find them. The Chicoms were no longer available, but the Yugos came in and guys started putting detachable duck bill mags for their C & R rifles. Many were butchered to try and make them look like an AK. I still see them pop up from time to time.

    The other thing I remember about the time period is that the Antis didn't stop. First it was the so called "Assault Weapons". Then it was shotguns. At one point, they started talking about banning pumps and all semi automatics. This caused my dad inparticular to become really angry (he hunts with an Ithaca Mag-10). As someone who likes to shoot and grew up hunting and shooting, I thought it was the end of our sport. Something else that many people don't remember is that Clinton passed a measure that prohibited the sale of millions of 1911's to the civilian market. They scrapped them all. If I remember, they did the same thing to the M1 Carbines and many M1 Garands. This made MANY people angry in the milsurp market. In my lifetime, I don't remember a more antigun time. That is why I shudder when I think that Hilary Clinton could become President.

    One thing that does trouble me is that some people never learned. I have read a few places online how they can have them as long as they don't come after what (I) like to shoot attitude. It was the same thing that they used to divide us in the 90's. Make no bones about it, they want them all. I like all firearms from Autos to smoke poles, so I really don't think there is a bad gun out there. If you don't like to shoot it, don't buy it, but don't try and keep it from those of us who DO want them. I must admit, I have purchased more black rifles due to a fear they MIGHT gain a foothold, but I am not going crazy.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  6. siglite

    siglite Participating Member

    Jul 18, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Academic cite? I'm very interested in reading this.
  7. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Senior Member

    Jul 6, 2007
    In 1994 I owned a high cap pre ban Taurus (Beretta knockoff) a Mossberg 500 and a 79 Golden 39A.

    Due to those times the collection has evolved..... :D
  8. hayes1966

    hayes1966 New Member

    Oct 7, 2008
    Central Connecticut
    In 1994 I had an MAK90, SKS and shotgun. CT put in it's own AWB in 93 and the MAK was sold off. We still have the ban here, no ak47s, no uzis, no tech-9s, no flash hiders or bayonet lugs on ar15s. I now have a much expanded collection.
  9. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Active Member

    Jan 13, 2005
    Orange County California
    Back in ‘94 was a young guy wandering the aisles of the Great Western Gun Show in Los Angeles. I had big eyes and empty pockets. I thought that the NRA callers were crazy, like ranting homeless or something. Was I wrong. Those guys were spot on.

    As mentioned above, it served to radicalize lots of us. My interests have always been with the old bolt guns, but today I am an eager letter writer whenever any anti-gun legislation comes up. I don’t care if they are trying to ban fully automatic flame throwers. I’m squarely opposed to any new laws. Being in California, I write lots of letters.

    It was also a time when many middle-Americans came to realize how they were vilified by the supposed elite. Ordinary citizens were looked upon as toothless bumpkins and psychopaths. The ’94 bans and the related politics made apparent to many that there are two Americas. I’m in the other one.
  10. CharlieBT

    CharlieBT New Member

    Feb 18, 2012
    I was 35 then. In my view, we have a very different electorate, media and political climate than we did in 1994. Restrictions on firearm and component ownership seem not simply possible now but probable, IMO. SCOTUS is my primary concern, along with the rest of the federal judiciary.
  11. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Active Member

    Mar 15, 2009
    Select 1994 Gun memories:
    The Glock 26/27 had not been released yet.
    Wal-Mart sold Black Talon ammo ~ up to / just prior to that time.
    S&W revolvers did not have a useless (to me) internal lock.
    My state did not yet have concealed carry.
  12. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Elder

    Jun 11, 2005
    Ok... we know that there were essentially two cultures in the years around 1994... the hunting and outdoor group and the self defense/shooter group. The concealed weapon permit system (shall issue) was growing state to state.

    This was also a time of a lot of chaos in the industry caused by law suits against firearm manufacturers.

    SKS's were selling for $80-$100 at gun shows. AK clones were selling for a little more...

    Now.... tell me about how the AWB happened in the first place. Bill Clinton was president. What caused the NRA to negotiate with the anti-gunners and accept a 10-round magazine limit? Why were the military styled rifles considered so "evil"?

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  13. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Participating Member

    Jul 9, 2005
    Ammo was cheap,dirt cheap during the Clinton era,unlike now.I bought most of my stash ammo during the 90s.I still have 7.62x39 cases(1K) with 69.99 on them!! Reloading components were a lot cheaper too.A lot of price gouging and profiteering going on.Most folks wanted AKs as the ammo and mags were cheaper.I could buy chi-com AK drums 75/100 for $20 after the initial panic buying subsided and the profiteering caused people to stop buying and the prices dropped,there wasn't a shortage of product.
    Post ban rule beater guns came in like the MAK-90 that actually became cheaper than their pre-ban cousins,millions were sold.

    The FBI stat listed above is pretty funny because millions of AK variants and SKS were sold during this time period and it took Winchester/USRAC 100 years to sell 3 million Model 94s.There are WAY MORE than 4 million so called assault weapons in the USA.

    People are more serious about training nowdays and you are not labeled a survivalist nut case now,you train.Katrina showed the country that the goobermint wasn't always going to be the answer to your well being.
  14. tomrkba

    tomrkba Participating Member

    May 30, 2010
    My firearms experience started as the ban began.

    First, I saw no point in having a small caliber pistol that could only carry 10 rounds in the magazine. Manufacturers started building guns around the 10 round magazine soon after. The limit also increased the popularity of the 1911. Therefore, I choice was 45 ACP for large guns and I skipped the small gun. I did flirt with a Browning Hi-Power chambered for 40 S&W. It was nice and I should have kept it. The Glock 23 with 10 round magazine was an acceptable compromise, but I preferred guns in 45 ACP.

    "Assault" rifles were around and the 10 round limitation was just silly. It made for goofy looking guns, occasionally unreliable magazines, and a whole bunch of weird features. My first "assault" rifle was made by Daewoo. It was an interesting rifle with a thumbhole stock and no muzzle device. It worked well.

    It seemed to me at the time that rifles in 7.62x51mm were very popular. The ammunition was cheap and surplus was commonly available. HK's seemed to get the 'nod', as did the M1A/M14. I saw a few AR-15s and AK's around. The SKS was popular, as was the Garand.

    The real insult was twofold: ProMag advertised "high capacity" magazines which never worked properly and factory Glock magazines of standard capacity went from $15 to $75 overnight. I dropped $750 on Glock magazines. Those lasted for the rest of the ban. I used 10 round magazines for practice and training and the standard capacity magazines for defense.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  15. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Mentor

    Oct 19, 2010
    East TN
    As a result of AWB of '94, many, if not all the black rifle manufacturers dropped the term "AR-15" from their gun models. Although the generic term as stuck, the various rifles have model designations that are not "AR-15".

    Also, I understand part of the true definition of an assault rifle is that is has selective fire capabilities. Not many currently produced civilian arms have selective fire capabilities.

    Of course, that does not mean squat to our elective officials. They tend to define things as they see fit.

    AR-15 style rifles may have gotten popular in part because of AWB 94, but I feel it's rise in popularity is that it is a very good, accurate shooting platform that has alot of flexibility to be made into many variations.

    I got interested in AR-15 style rifles as a result of getting involved with Service Rifle shooting. I considered the AR-15 marginally accurate and not really worth owning until I saw what the competitors were doing. And a good rille was not very expensive to boot.

    I have several heavy, long barrel, "crew served", varmint AR's that in no way could be considered assault rifles except they share the same action as an M4gery. They shoot 1/2 to 2/4 inch MOA groups at 100 yards.
  16. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

    May 27, 2007
    In 1994 AR's were sort of on the fringe. There were a few around but they were not mainstream and practically nobody hunted with one.

    Now days they are the most popular rifle in the country.

    Also countless millions of high capacity magazines have been sold since then.
  17. sonick808

    sonick808 Active Member

    Feb 3, 2010
    Chandler, AZ
    weird. I remember the AR-15 and Glock being ubiquitous back in 94, just far fewer boutique manufacturers, and the prices for certain "evil" parts and magazine capacities being labelled as "pre-ban", and costing 5 times as much as a "post-ban" magazine.
  18. Old Guy

    Old Guy Active Member

    May 28, 2005
    The President has kind of put himself in a good guy jacket.

    He is going after terrorists (I got Bin Laden, me!) giving out kill orders, different than his first image, yes?

    He is going to be tap dancing around the CIA resignation, Benghazi ville, etc, for a while. Not sure his mind is on gun control too much now.

    Question, how come anti gunners are all ugly?
  19. Pilot

    Pilot Mentor

    Dec 29, 2002
    I think the politicians in the legislatures know that another AWB or more gun control laws are political suicide, therefore, I doubt we wll see new laws passed. However, what we will see are attempts to tax ammo, regulate ammo due to lead content (EPA), regulate ammo components. If ammo is too expensive, or difficult to acquire the gun is essentially neutered.
  20. Dean1818

    Dean1818 Active Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    I think the true time to worry is when there is a conservative that backs down from the supreme court

    Right now, any action would be challenged, and go to the SC

    If the court was tilted one vote..... Expect the action then.

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