gun for IDPA, or IPSC

[Country_boy_88]

Sam thank you so much for clearing that up. IDPA sounds like it would be more attune to my liking based on what you describe but i wouldnt mind doing both of them also. I think anytime i spend at the range whether it is shooting silouette or just sighting in the hunting rifle is time well spent. With my CCW finally coming up soon i plan on taking w/e gun i choose and using it every chance i get to get as much range time with it as possible. There was a fellow MC memeber who shot non .22 silouette with his .357 double action only revolver just to get practice time with it. he did really well with the pigs and even the turkeys but he missed every chicken lol oh well

 

[robertbank]

Idpa alex

"I did this but with a CZ 97b and not only I shot in the CDP and ESP div. but I could also shoot in the SSP div."

Nope! The CZ97B is to heavy for SSP division (It has a full length dustcover) therefore it does not meet divisional requirements so it cannot be shot in ESP or CDP.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Sam1911]

Robert,

I'm guessing that Alex has shot in some local club matches with his 97B. 9 times out of 10, the MD and SOs really don't grill anyone too severely over what gun they brought. If it looks close to ok, let them shoot it. Same with 5" barreled S&W 625s and 1911s with a big magwell or a tungsten guide rod, or other illegal mod. Unless the MD or an SO is a big CZ fan, knows that the 97 B doesn't make weight, and recognized the gun, I doubt anyone would ever batted an eye.

The trouble comes when no one ever points out the problem to the shooter and eventually they want to get involved in sanctioned matches. There's a good (bad!) probability that they'll show up to a state match (or even nationals! ) with that gun and not be allowed to compete.

Of course, that presumes quite a bit of checking on the part of the sanctioned match MD, which -- in my experience -- often doesn't happen. I shot four or five sanctioned matches last year, including a state match and Nationals. Our ammo was only chrono'd at about half of them. At none of them did they weigh any guns, check for operational safety features, or measure anything, though they did all incorporate a "start in the box" stage which counts for something. Holster checks only happened at one match.

So who knows, he could have shot that 97b in lots of matches and just never got noticed.

-Sam

 

[robertbank]

True enough. That said a lot of new shooters read these forums and may get the idea that the 97B is legal for IDPA under the current rules. That is the only reason why I posted what I did.

I hope HQ, when they do the next rule revision take a hard look at the evolving firearms industry and how are sport is developing. Personally I would like to see a recognition that striker fired pistols be moved to ESP and CDP and SSP become the home for hammer fired D/A and DAO pistols. That and an elimination of the weight maximums for all divisions. They might also want to add a minimum trigger pull of 5# across all divisions.

I say that because:

a) All stiker fired pistols involve one trigger pull not two and none allow for a double strike on primers.

b) The notion that reduced recoil from a heavier gun allows for faster sight acquisition and a compeitive advantage, while perhaps true, is offset by lighter guns being able tp be driven faster.

c) The trigger pulls on striker fired pistols can be reduced to rediculously low levels (Does anyone carry a pistol with a 1.5# trigger pull?) and are quite capable of competing against S/A pistols such as the 1911.

d) One only has to look at the last US Natinals and what guns are winning. All three pistol divisions were won by striker fired pistols. Like it or not participants in our sport will gravitate to what is winning.

e) The notion that our sport would exclude "Competition" only equipment has long ago been swept aside eg. 5" Glocks, S&W "Pro", STI Eagle and CZ SP-01 Custom, to name but four. The latter gets in under a dubious notion that CZUSA represents "the factory" and the gun is a factory made gun which it clearly isn't. CZUB located in the Czech Republic manufactures the SP-01 and doesn't list the SP-01 Custom as an available model.

Kevlar helmet firmly in place.

Merry Cristmas

Bob

 

[Jim Watson]

I hope HQ, when they do the next rule revision


Don't hope. Send them in to HQ. I don't agree with all your revisions, but neither will they. Some of them might make it in, though.

 

[Sam1911]

Don't hope. Send them in to HQ. I don't agree with all your revisions, but neither will they. Some of them might make it in, though.

Hear, hear!

Personally, I know a lot of guys -- especially 1911 folks -- who'd want to chase you up a tree with pointy sticks if you managed to convince HQ to mandate 5 lb. triggers for all divisions! But, I'd almost conceed the point with a striker-fired or other non-manual-safety design.

But, as we so often say about the gun laws 'round here: they don't enforce the ones we have NOW, so why will more make it better?

But, I'm with you: some revisions are due.

(Hey, how 'bout extending the SSR and ESR barrel length rule to 5"? That's just me trying to make life easier for my Canadian bro's!)

-Sam

 

[Jim Watson]

If I were the Rules Master, I would allow more changes to CUSTOM and ENHANCED guns. The full length dust cover and bull barrel bans are just silly in light of current products.

On the other hand, I would allow fewer changes to STOCK guns. Glocks are common, Glock makes a "3.5 lb" connector that fits all their guns, so be it. Minimum trigger pull 3.5 lbs and factory sights, too.

 

[robertbank]

Hey Sam for playing revolver up here we have a rule exempton to allow us to use 6" revolvers for competition in Canada only. Without such an exemption we would really not have had a revolver division at all. I do like the 5" rule though. Guys use 5' revolvers up here for wilderness carry so a case could be made.

Taking up what Jim said I do intend to submit some thoughts to HQ. From my business experience you have to re-invent yourself every so often to stay current with markets and IDPA is no exception. That said you don't want to make changes just for change sake.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Sam1911]

for playing revolver up here we have a rule exempton to allow us to use 6" revolvers for competition in Canada only

That's as I've heard. But if you want to come down to the 'States and shoot in a revolver class you'll have to borrow someone's 4"-er.

That's just not very sporting!

-Sam

 

[robertbank]

Yup! I missed my 5 Gun Certificate by one second last summer using Rick B's .45acp revolver. Next summer though look out!

Take Care

Bob

 

[David E]

Here's an easy way to remember the difference between the two:

USPSA/IPSC allows the shooter to solve the problem presented.

IDPA requires the shooter to solve it their way.

 

[jmorris]

and remember that no one is going to be impressed with ANYTHING except how SAFE you can be.

That should be a t-shirt

so many options. i think we all would buy 3 or 4 guns

That would cover you for IDPA (CDP,ESP,SSP,ESR,SSR) and for a few of the USPSA divisions but a good limited and open rig do add to the cost not to mention equipment and mag differences.
It's not cheap to "do it all" but also something you'll likely build on for many years. The main point is just go start. Head out to the range once and ask around on what basic equipment you need to start and do so. The first trip all you'll need is safty glasses and ear protection.

 

[Mello]

Limiting my consideration to the IDPA and the two divisions ESP and CDP.

The power floor listed in the 2005 rule book states that the ESP - 125,000 and the CDP - 165,000.

This is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight in grains times the muzzle velocity in feet per second.

a 200gr bullet at 1200fps = 240,000 (10mm)
A 230gr bullet at 830fps = 190,900 (45acp)
A 180gr bullet at 950fps = 171,000 (.40S&W)
A 115gr bullet at 1100fps = 126,500 (9mm)

Why is it that the IDPA rules prohibit competition by the 10mm, 40S&W against the 45acp in the CDP? The CDP is limited to 45acp only.

One of their stated purposes:
IDPA is a shooting sport that uses practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated “real world” self-defense scenarios.

It makes more sense to isolate the 9mm alone in the ESP as it is the only minor caliber allowed; and let the major calibers compete to see what works best.

 

[jmorris]

Why is it that the IDPA rules prohibit competition by the 10mm, 40S&W against the 45acp in the CDP? The CDP is limited to 45acp only.

Bill Wilson makes more .45's

 

[robertbank]

"Why is it that the IDPA rules prohibit competition by the 10mm, 40S&W against the 45acp in the CDP? The CDP is limited to 45acp only."

"Just because" is the best answer that can be given. Keeps the old cartridge alive and well in the shooting sports.

Take Care

Bob

 

[David E]

No, it's not "just because."

Here's what was happening: Folks were downloading their 10mm's and .40's to compete in CDP. The powers that be thought that was an unfair advantage and didn't like that, so they changed it to .45 acp only.

Both of those cartridges were assigned to the ESP division, where they are at a disadvantage.

 

[Mello]

"Why is it that the IDPA rules prohibit competition by the 10mm, 40S&W against the 45acp in the CDP? The CDP is limited to 45acp only."

"Just because" is the best answer that can be given. Keeps the old cartridge alive and well in the shooting sports.

Take Care

Bob

I understand what you are saying. I do not like it, but it is what it is.

My concern is if the IDPA has a rule which is counter to achieving one of its stated purposes, what other rules and procedures are screwed up.

I am going to observe the next IDPA match in my area of Georgia in February to see how things work.

 

[David E]

IDPA was once a great idea.

Since then, they have come up with so many rules it's ridiculous.

I expressed my concern several years ago that they'd shoot themselves in the foot with all the needless micro-management.

Not only have they shot their foot, they're reloading.