Gun-Mounted Laser as Deterrent

[shootemup]

Friends-

Has anyone compiled stories of real-life situations where painting a bad guy with a gun-mounted laser served as a deterrent and firing the weapon was not necessary?

I am getting a set of CT grips for my wife's S&W 642, and she is curious to know....

Shootemup

 

[sm]

Yep.

Seeing red dot(s) on one's person can be unsettling.
No matter whom is doing the red dot pointing and whether there is a gun accompanying the red dot or not.



I have also heard of criminal gangs training attack dogs to take down victims using lasers.

Two ways:

1. Criminal points a hand held laser at intended target, and criminal dog(s) go to target marked by laser.

2. Train these dogs to go after anyone pointing a laser of any kind, be they Police with a laser type sight, or another gang member using a laser.

One source to look up : Fred Perrin.


Criminals are not stupid.

There are no magic talismans.

 

[no_problem]

By the time the situation gets to the point where a person is gonna pull a gun, that person is past the point of deterrence. That person should be ready to pull the trigger as soon as the sights line up.

If that person is gonna pull out his/her gun, he/she should be 100% serious about inflicting mortal harm to his/her opponent in order to save his/her own life, or the life of his/her loved one(s). That person should never pull his/her gun with the intent to "scare" an assailant.

By the time he/she pull his/her gun, s/he should have exhausted ALL CONTINGENCIES and the only way to ensure his/her physical safety and/or that of his/her family is to shoot the assailant.

My 2 cents

 

[M2 Carbine]

I practice quite a bit with lasers.
I don't consider the laser as a deterrent since I try to fire as fast as possible after the laser is lit.

Generally you don't want to shine the laser around like a flashlight. In many cases the laser is lit as the gun is pointed at the threat, the laser is corrected on target as the trigger is squeezed. I'm working on trying to get this procedure down to a second a shot, and still maintain decent accuracy.


The CT laser on the small S&W makes an excellent team. With a little practice the small gun can be very accurate and fast, even when point shooting using either hand.




The Crimson Trace CD, "Shots in the Dark", is a good primer on the use of the laser.

 

[sacp81170a]

Has anyone compiled stories of real-life situations where painting a bad guy with a gun-mounted laser served as a deterrent and firing the weapon was not necessary?

Haven't heard of any and I wouldn't depend on it working. Hollyweird puts some strange ideas out, and this is one of the stranger ones, IMHO. FWIW, if I saw I was being painted with a laser, I'd hit the deck or get behind cover pronto.

The only reason someone should know if they're being painted with a laser is that's where the rounds are hitting...

 

[Lucky]

Heh this is sort of in the same league as referring to your trigger as a 'panic button'. Sure it works, but to most non-gunnies it would seem comically extreme

 

[Jeff White]

I have not heard of any instances of a laser intimidating anyone. As was said before, you use the laser to confirm your aim before you fire, generally from a very unconventional shooting position.

Jeff

 

[yesit'sloaded]

They also give away your position.

 

[sacp81170a]

They also give away your position.

But it's so visually... stunning to have the hero or the villain painted with dozens of lasers when the SWAT team breaks down the door, especially in a smoke filled room where you can see the criss-crossing red beams and know that he or she is a hair's breadth from annihilation.

 

[Jeff White]

But it's so visually... stunning to have the hero or the villain painted with dozens of lasers when the SWAT team breaks down the door, especially in a smoke filled room where you can see the criss-crossing red beams and know that he or she is a hair's breadth from annihilation.

Someone's been going to cinematography school on the side LOL

Jeff

 

[Hardtarget]

I keep thinking how "juiced up" I'll be in a self defense situation. The adrenilin will have that dot dancing all over the place...and I don't want him to think I can't hit my intended target. So I'll stick with good night stghts.

Mark.

 

[ArmedBear]

My dog chases laser dots.

A guy I know has a laser-guided terrier. He'll bite someone where the laser is pointed at their body.

Those times are good, but I can shoot just as fast with my milsurp pistol with original irons on it. My best official time has been 3.74 seconds from pointed down to 5 steel plates knocked down. Arguably, regular sights can be faster since they encourage the best use of your upper body -- not necessarily for close-quarters defense, but for fast, accurate shooting.

It's really hip shooting, or any shooting where you don't want to have to hold the gun out in front of you, where the laser is worth its price. If a BG is a few feet in front of me, I don't want to hold the gun out in front of my face!

 

[Avenger]

If I shine a laser at somebody, they are going to PREFER being shot at that point, because that little spot of red light on their body means that my two cats are mid-leap pursuing it....

 

[JWarren]

because that little spot of red light on their body means that my two cats are mid-leap pursuing it....

or my Jack Russell Terriers. LOL

I see our household isn't all that different from others.


-- John

 

[jahwarrior]

in some places, shining a laser on someone, even one of those cheap dollar store pointers, is a misdemeanor offense; i'm pretty sure it's becaue seeing a red dot on your chest will scare the crap out of someone.

that's why i'm getting a green laser for my gun.

 

[armoredman]

I use my laser as a night sighting aid. Works well. My cats chase it, and so do both dogs...go figure.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

No, and the reason why there isn't any compilation of incidents where lasers have intimidated people by seeing a red dot on themselves is that they don't engage in activities where they look at themselves.

I know from watching cops that the bad guys never see the red dot on themselves from the Tazers.

I really like it in the movies when they show a red dot on the side or back of a person and they all of a sudden realize they are about to be shot even though the dot was where it could not be seen by the person and the fact that you can't feel the dot.

 

[perpster]

in some places, shining a laser on someone, even one of those cheap dollar store pointers, is a misdemeanor offense; i'm pretty sure it's becaue seeing a red dot on your chest will scare the crap out of someone.

If it's intimidating enough to be made illegal, I could imagine at least a few scenarios where the answer to your question would be yes. Will it always work that way? Of course not, but might it? Sure.

BTW, seeing the dot on themselves isn't the only way the laser can be effective. If the perp is looking at it coming out of your gun that might be a huge psychological factor.

There are few absolutes in this world, but I think a laser could give the edge and help end a situation without a shot having to be fired.

 

[sacp81170a]

Someone's been going to cinematography school on the side LOL

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

 

[Titan6]

I have not heard of any instances of a laser intimidating anyone.

I guess you haven't been to Iraq lately then.

Just about every US and many IA/IP traffic control points have a couple of green light lasers. Some weapons mounted, some hand held. It is kind of like watching a deer in the headlights when they realize it is on them. Of course it mostly only works on law abiding citizens. Of course they have to see it (mostly on the windshield during the day). Anyone really intent on doing you harm will most likely not care or not be able to do anything about it anyway.

But intimidated? Oh most defintely.

Has anyone compiled stories of real-life situations where painting a bad guy with a gun-mounted laser served as a deterrent and firing the weapon was not necessary?

Tons, but probably not in the situations you were thinking. I would say for self defense it is at best a poor measure. There normally is not enough reaction time to allow for it to have any effect. Figure anyone within 25 feet of you can either shoot you or be on you within 3 seconds (sounds fast but is true) their brain simply won't see the laser, process the thought and react to it if they have already committed to attacking you.

 

[no_problem]

I remember a scene in the movie "True Lies", Ahnold comes up on a guard and, after some discussion, the guard sees a red laser on his chest. He immediately gives up and complies with whatever Ahnold wants him to do...but, then again, He was up against the Governator, Ahnold!

 

[Noxx]

There are exceptions to every rule, but as a good *general* rule, in SD situations, the laser as de-escalation tool is in my opinion, largely a Hollywood myth.

A laser is not a flashlight, you do not use it to hunt around for targets in the dark. It's a target verification tool in poor lighting, and as mentioned above, from unconventional firing positions.

For a laser like the CT's, which are pressure activated, the laser is not a warning. When it comes on, I have already made the decision to shoot you, and am in the process of shooting you. There is no time to A) see the laser B) do the math C) surrender in any sort of visible manner. This also defeats the argument that lasers give away your position, when used properly, the laser is only on as my position is about to be given away by a whole lot of other noise and light.

I think it would be tactically unsound, and potentially disastrous, to "dot" someone and wait and see how they respond. That being said, in response to the OP, our first set of CT's were for wifes nightstand Sig, and we consider them money very well spent. They add a tremendous degree of surety to shooting in the dark / near dark from a "just woke up" state of mind.

 

[DMK]

in some places, shining a laser on someone, even one of those cheap dollar store pointers, is a misdemeanor offense; i'm pretty sure it's becaue seeing a red dot on your chest will scare the crap out of someone.

If it's intimidating enough to be made illegal, I could imagine at least a few scenarios where the answer to your question would be yes. Will it always work that way? Of course not, but might it? Sure.

I really believe many laws owe their existence to works of fiction. For example: laws covering silencers and switchblades.

 

[LegalAlien]

Qualified yes - might well be biased marketing hype, but you can read 'testimonials' from a fair amount of PD reports using LaserMax http://www.lasermax.com/CustomerStories/index.php as well as Crimson Trace http://www.crimsontrace.com/default.asp?id=678 for what it is worth. Some interesting reading
I own both a Lasemax on my FN5.7 and a Crimson Trace Grip on Beretta 92FS - not had the need to use them - yet. (apart from practice)

 

[ExSoldier]

I have a CT Laser module on my little Glock M27 and I've zeroed it for 25 yards. Meaning the dot sits right atop my front sight and the round will hit to the point of impact from roughly the muzzle to 25 yds give or take.

I have some misgivings on the whole thing. First and foremost when I'm exercising a "crush grip" as a solid shooting platform it's going to jiggle like mad and I don't want anybody to think I might be losing my nerve. To remedy that I do like the idea that if the laser is on I'm SHOOTING, not warning!

The other issue is the illuminated beam in any sort of cloudy, smokey, or misty environment. I don't want to worry about being flanked and taken out by a bad guy's buddies. I'm less worried about the guy in front of my sights than I am about the flankers. The fact that we're in a war that has lasted for six + years is a factor too. How many gang bangers are going to the army or USMC and volunteering to get some of the best training in the world and then some real OJT in the form of a combat tour or two and then getting out to be a thug infantryman? I'm reading about more and more of this all the time in the law enforcement journals I get as a result of my degree in Criminal Justice.