Gun owner gang signs.

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Oh...I get it...

"He made his hand into a fist and exstended two fingers and taped his chest. Next he pointed with his index finger between his eyes and kept walking."

Double tap to center mass...one to the brain pan ! :evil:
 
Same sign I told a guy that "all us cops" used to identify ourselves. We were in another town, and some officers came into a restaraunt, and he looked at me and told me that they knew I was a cop also. I laughed and told him about the "gang sign"..


We don't really do that stuff, but makes a funny story. :evil:
 
Not exactly new.

The county cops were doing the "two-to-the-chest, one-to-the-head" "gang sign" to gang kids ten years ago when I was a prosecutor in a small town in the Four Corners. Since that's not exactly a hotbed of innovation, I can only assume that it had been started elsewhere sometime before that even.

It was funny to me at the time, but I was younger then. :)
 
Personally, I'd avoid throwing gang-type sets around... Even if it is just symbolizing a Mozambique/failure drill. We get enough bad press from those who are just ITCHING to find anything they can sink their teeth into.

We should distance ourselves from the whole gang culture.

Great story though. Gave me the warm fuzzies. Glad it didn't escalate. One could easily claim in a court of law that there was a direct threat of mortal danger and they just responded in kind.
 
BBaerst,
Gang members come in all shapes, sizes, AND colors. Nothing in his post specified a specific ethnicity and it is telling that you immediately jumped to the conclusion that they were black.
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You're missing the point. It sounds to me, from the original post, that whoever this story originated from saw some gentlemen "with a less than promising background" and used that stereotype to send a hostile gesture, regardless of the fact that there was no reason to jump to that. The thing is that people around here, at least from what I've seen, seem to take any element of hip-hop or urban culture as reason to be wary and defensive. And here was just another example of people throwing "gang" signs (an assumption right off) and obviously not dressed or walking or acting in whatever way the narrator thought was "respectable." So, instead of trying to mask your prejudices, why don't you just say whatever was troubling you about these people? Is it their race? Their socio-economic status? Their diction? I'm not threatened by people who "don't look respectable" and I highly doubt that's the real reason whoever came up with this story sought to send a message that he was packing, and wouldn't hesitate to defend himself.

I could be totally off about this, but I have my suspicions, and quite honestly, I've gotten sick of the thinly veiled stereotyping on this board that seems to pass as "situational awareness."
 
You're missing the point. It sounds to me, from the original post, that whoever this story originated from saw some gentlemen "with a less than promising background" and used that stereotype to send a hostile gesture, regardless of the fact that there was no reason to jump to that. The thing is that people around here, at least from what I've seen, seem to take any element of hip-hop or urban culture as reason to be wary and defensive. And here was just another example of people throwing "gang" signs (an assumption right off) and obviously not dressed or walking or acting in whatever way the narrator thought was "respectable." So, instead of trying to mask your prejudices, why don't you just say whatever was troubling you about these people? Is it their race? Their socio-economic status? Their diction? I'm not threatened by people who "don't look respectable" and I highly doubt that's the real reason whoever came up with this story sought to send a message that he was packing, and wouldn't hesitate to defend himself.
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First of all I take complete offense at your stupid comment that its a racial issue. If you think your so damn smart and can get in my brain by all means keep your opinions and your stupid comments, and stop attacking me. Secondly my friend who told me did not disern race as I have not as well. It was indeterminet. You brought up race after falling into the trap that A. a gang member must be minority. B. throwing gang signs come from a minority group.

Secondly I am would be wary around anyone trying to interact with me that I didnt know. To include people being lude and trying to signal me. Especially in a city which breeds a lack of care of anyone around.

From what I was told and relayed I think anyone not paying attention to there sorrounds is a moron.
 
When I first read this I pictured my son and his friends with their pants down around their butts holding them up with one hand and walking spread legged to keep them from falling to their ankles.

They're all white
 
bbaerst, methinks thou dost protest too much. Non-verbal communication isn't rocket science, either.

OK, mea culpa, too: I wrote
Good one. I bet it spreads.
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in my post above.

Bad idea.

Funny story, but Joe Demko & the rest of you are right.
 
Were it me and I felt compelled to do anything, I would have waved back, as in, "hello friendly human, nice to see you too". I would not pretend to know any street/gang signage and would prefer to act like myself.
 
I want to start a gang called the OWGs- the Old White Guys! Here in Idaho we'd rule. We could pimp our spud diggers. It'd be da bomb!
 
bbaerst wrote:
You're missing the point. It sounds to me, from the original post, that whoever this story originated from saw some gentlemen "with a less than promising background" and used that stereotype to send a hostile gesture, regardless of the fact that there was no reason to jump to that.
The thing is that people around here, at least from what I've seen, seem to take any element of hip-hop or urban culture as reason to be wary and defensive.
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I see. I think that the place where we part company is where I DO and WILL make certain "intel"-type decisions based on what people look like, the way they are conducting themselves, the way they are looking at me, the things they are saying, how many of them are around, what items they appear to have at their disposal... etc. etc.

If your position is that no matter what the demeanor of an individual, he ought to be treated as a non-threat until he proves otherwise, then I think you are gravely mistaken, and are taking touchy-feely P.C.ism to a dangerous extreme. Sometimes it is quite valid to make your defensive decisions based on your gut instinct coupled with a person's appearance.

Surely you are not suggesting that you treat a petite woman in a business skirt and blouse carrying a briefcase the same as you would a large black guy with huge muscles, numerous tattoos, and a swagger that suggests he is out to assert dominance over any who cross his path?! I'm not saying this has to be a race-related issue at all -- the same kinda guy could be white, hispanic, asian, etc. But to argue that all people are to be considered equal until and unless they initiate aggression against you is folly. And in this example, the people to whom this gun owner flashed his "sign" were themselves engaged in flashing "gang signs" and making comments which although in a foreign language, were interpreted as insults (possibly because of attendant body-language, which could make the intention clear).

I will not force myself to engage in P.C. egalitarianism in a bad neighborhood just because it is the gallant thing to do to leave my guard down because homey deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I could be totally off about this, but I have my suspicions, and quite honestly, I've gotten sick of the thinly veiled stereotyping on this board that seems to pass as "situational awareness."
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Then you need to acquaint yourself with the differences between "stereotyping" and "BIGOTRY," because you are mistaking the former for the latter.

I sure as hell WILL "stereotype" in the course of maintaining situational awareness, because it is such "hunches" that have the potential to keep me on my guard where I should be on my guard. These stereotypes exist simply because to some degree they have validity. And they may help keep us alive some day.

But your apparent (to me) assertion that it's just plain wrong to regard anyone with suspicion because they fit the appearance stereotype of a "typical criminal" is contemptible, to me. Preparedness is preparedness. Leaving your guard down because raising your guard might be "offensive" qualifies as UNpreparedness.

-Jeffrey
 
First of all I take complete offense at your stupid comment that its a racial issue. If you think your so damn smart and can get in my brain by all means keep your opinions and your stupid comments, and stop attacking me. Secondly my friend who told me did not disern race as I have not as well. It was indeterminet. You brought up race after falling into the trap that A. a gang member must be minority. B. throwing gang signs come from a minority group.
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Well, first, before you call me "stupid" remember that everything I said was aimed at the person in the story, so don't jump to personal attacks just yet.

Secondly I am would be wary around anyone trying to interact with me that I didnt know.
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...and to think I believed the liberal judgment that CCW holders were paranoid to be baseless.

To include people being lude and trying to signal me. Especially in a city which breeds a lack of care of anyone around.

From what I was told and relayed I think anyone not paying attention to there sorrounds is a moron.
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There's a fine line between ignoring someone, and assuming any foreign communication to be hostile and reacting as such. The fact that the man in the story never considered waving, or just walking on is sort of discouraging. But futhermore, the fact that everyone here laughs and revels in their bravado and masculinity at sending a tough message and scaring off some "gangsters" is even worse.

Yo man, you don't wanna mess with the Mozambiques! Straight up.

If the slugs you make this gesture at are realio-trulio gangstas, you may well have guaranteed that you will get shot.

"Straight up"? "Gangsta"? "Thugs"? It's obvious that I wasn't the only one who was able to draw a conclusion towards blacks, or at least, hip-hop culture. But somehow, when I decided to put it out there, everybody recoiled. It's not as if my comment came out of, er, left field (pun intended).

I'm not arguing that some level of stereotyping isn't necessary in order to keep situational awareness, but I'm just seeing that the way people identifiy "criminal" around here seems largely to be based on race, or dress--which quite honestly convey little about the threat of an individual. Look at the responses here...people reacted to the joke by imitating "gangster-speak."
 
Here's a question:

Is not "hip-hop culture" notorious for reveling in violent behavior, including but not limited to guns?

And another question:
If people are engaged in imitating this sort of demeanor (the "hip-hop demeanor") is it not fair to assume that they live the "hip-hop culture" and as such might well be intimately familiar with doing violence for the purpose of robber and/or murder?

One final question:
If these assumptions are even remotely fair, is it not also fair to proceed with extreme caution when in the environs of such individuals?

-Jeffrey
 
Is not "hip-hop culture" notorious for reveling in violent behavior, including but not limited to guns?
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Uh, no. That's a really, really, narrow and offensive view of a culture.

And another question:
If people are engaged in imitating this sort of demeanor (the "hip-hop demeanor") is it not fair to assume that they live the "hip-hop culture" and as such might well be intimately familiar with doing violence for the purpose of robber and/or murder?

One final question:
If these assumptions are even remotely fair, is it not also fair to proceed with extreme caution when in the environs of such individuals?
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The problem is that you equate "hip hop culture" with violence and criminal activity. Maybe you should hang out with some black people or something, I don't know, but come on. Do you realize what you're saying? You come off as incredibly, incredibly prejudicial here. Not saying you are, but this is the sort of mindset I take issue with.
 
Is not "hip-hop culture" notorious for reveling in violent behavior, including but not limited to guns?

Uh, no. That's a really, really, narrow and offensive view of a culture.
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Offensive or not (in the eye of the beholder), it is a fact -- yes a fact -- that "hip-hop" has, for some decades now, surrounded itself with a ..."mystique" of sex, guns and violence. One need not look very far into the hip-hop milieu to find people wearing large gold charm necklaces with Tec-9s hanging from them, etc.

You do not find this kind of attitude/demeanor in, say, pop music, or country music, or classical music. Hell, you don't even find it in heavy metal music.

I did not say that ALL hip-hop does this. I am aware that there are strains of hip-hop that attempt to foment a "stop-the-violence" attitude. But that has not historically been at the core of hip-hop (or "rap," as it has also been called).

Beyond that, don't really think (although I know I used the term) that hip-hop can accurately be called a "culture." We use that term, but we certainly use it loosely. A culture... that would be like "Native American," or "Eskimo," or "French," or something like that. When some set of an overall population, all with sometimes disparate characteristics, engage in a particular genre of music and/or lifestyle, I dare say that does not make them a discrete "culture." If I started to wear my hair in a peculiar style and wore peculiar jewelry and spoke with an affected, manufactured "dialect," and I get a bunch of friends to adopt these affectations, that does not mean we deserve legitimacy as a new "culture."

I do not believe that calling "hip-hop culture" to task for its history of violence and misogyny is "offending a culture." This is not like I went making fun of the Eubange tribe (sp?) for wearing those discs in their lips. When was the last time you heard of rival country musicians offing each other in a studio, and then all clamming up even though they all know who did it? By contrast, hip-hop artists seem to drop like flies. Tupac Shakur... ODB... there are more but I just don't remember the names. Hip-hop may be trying to clean up its act, but that doesn't change the fact that its history does lie in violence; and those people you see around town trying to emanate a "hip-hop" persona ARE often trying to intimidate with the implication of a violence potential.

The problem is that you equate "hip hop culture" with violence and criminal activity. Maybe you should hang out with some black people or something, I don't know, but come on. Do you realize what you're saying? You come off as incredibly, incredibly prejudicial here. Not saying you are, but this is the sort of mindset I take issue with.
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Violence is as violence does. If hip-hop culture did not have a well-known history of violence, I wouldn't have cause to equate it with that, now would I?

I haven't said anything demeaning or insulting directed at blacks, nor any racial group. You can take issue with what you perceive as my mindset all you like, but I am just as entitled to view my world by my own terms as you are to use your own terms.

You know nothing of how many black people I know and associate with. Not that I need to defend myself or my open-mindedness here, but I know and like and am friends with numerous black people -- as well as asians and hispanics. So there goes any theory that I am bigoted.

Bigotry is about hate.
Prejudice is about expectations.

If I see a group of black guys with their pants around their asses, standing near a low-rider Caprice on a corner in a bad section of town (How do I know it's a "bad section of town? Because I read the paper every single day, and the articles keep talking about all the murders that have been committed there in the last few months, that's how.), I don't hate them, but I sure as hell feel I am entitled to make decisions like checking that my car doors are locked, or not making direct (challenging?) eye contact with them... based on what my experience and knowledge tell me about guys who "look that part" and act the way they're acting.

Are you telling me that no matter the "profile" of a person you see, you'll treat everyone the same, as far as defensive preparation on your part is concerned?

-Jeffrey
 
When you attempt to point out my ignorance of "hip-hop culture" by saying I need to spend some time with some black people, you yourself are guilty of stereotyping... Since when is hip-hop culture an exclusively black thing? I know white kids who live "hip-hop culture." And hispanics and asians too.

When you say that hip-hop culture need not be directly associated with violence and shootings, perhaps you are talking about the millions of people who buy and listen to hip-hop music but don't go out shooting people. Fair enough. But I still think that there is a sickness in that "culture," because you're saying that it's okay for the listeners to listen to songs about rape and murder and cop-killing as long as the listeners themselves don't do it.

That makes about as much sense to me as for fat white guys to build a "culture" around listening to music that glorifies kidnapping young white girls, raping and torturing and killing them. -- But as long as we fat white guys don't do that, it's okay to keep buying music made by people who claim to have done so, and who now sing about it.

But then all we have to do to clean up our act and earn respectability is to sing the odd song about driving around town in our silver Toyota Camrys or Kia Spectras, and withhold any mention of kidnapping and raping and killing little white girls, and that makes it all okay. :rolleyes:

Sick.

-Jeffrey
 
When you attempt to point out my ignorance of "hip-hop culture" by saying I need to spend some time with some black people, you yourself are guilty of stereotyping... Since when is hip-hop culture an exclusively black thing? I know white kids who live "hip-hop culture." And hispanics and asians too.
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Great, but hip-hop sprung out of black America, it is most widely embraced by blacks more than any other racial group, and furthermore I never said or intended to imply that hip-hop was exclusive to blacks. I said "maybe you should hang out with more black people or something, I dunno"...notice how it was an offhand suggestion? Not a hard-edged assertion? That's because I realize that I don't know you or your social activities, nor is that the only way to get an idea of what "hip-hop" culture is.

When you say that hip-hop culture need not be directly associated with violence and shootings, perhaps you are talking about the millions of people who buy and listen to hip-hop music but don't go out shooting people. Fair enough. But I still think that there is a sickness in that "culture," because you're saying that it's okay for the listeners to listen to songs about rape and murder and cop-killing as long as the listeners themselves don't do it.
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Yeah--that's exactly what I'm referring to. Sure, some hip-hop artists get publicity for criminal activity and crude lyrics, but that doesn't define hip-hop culture. Rap music developed as an alternative to gang violence and fighting, and it has just as many songs promoting tolerance, reconciliation, and social progression as it has concerning drug use or objectification. People box themselves in, associating rap and hip hop with derogatory messages exclusively. That's what concerns me, and I think people refuse to have an open mind. A lot of people see someone in an oversized sports jersey and a puffy jacket and determine that the person must be down with black market weapons trafficking or petty theft, because that's how they view hip hop culture. See what I'm getting at?

That makes about as much sense to me as for fat white guys to build a "culture" around listening to music that glorifies kidnapping young white girls, raping and torturing and killing them. -- But as long as we fat white guys don't do that, it's okay to keep buying music made by people who claim to have done so, and who now sing about it.

But then all we have to do to clean up our act and earn respectability is to sing the odd song about driving around town in our silver Toyota Camrys or Kia Spectras, and withhold any mention of kidnapping and raping and killing little white girls, and that makes it all okay.
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Again, you just seem to have a very narrow, close-minded view to an entire genre of music, letalone a prominent culture in the United States. And yes, it is a culture. What defines a culture? Language, music, dance, dress...all of these things ring true for hip hop culture. People refuse to accept it, but it's obvious.

I never said you were a bigot, I'm not going to make any strong assumptions. I'm just questioning your (and the general) perspective here.
 
Guys, one or two words of advice when dealing with gang members, either verified or suspected:

1. If someone flashes signs in your general direction, do NOT respond. Just go on about your business. Go immediately to a high condition orange. Stay alert.

2. Most assuredly do NOT glare back at them. This is called "mad dogging", and will guarantee a physical confrontation.

3. The "double tap" sign, directed at a cop from my neck of the woods will earn the prospective banger a quick introduction to the nearest wall, cuffing, and a shakedown.

The same sign, directed at a gang member who is packing will almost guarantee rounds fired at you.

Best bet--stay out of recognized gang territory.

If this is not possible, be prepared. Be VERY prepared.
 
bb I called your opinion stupid and personally I think a lot of your counter points are moot. Im about 160 pounds soaking wet. I pay attention to anyone that I dont know. I am not paranoid I dont get ready to shoot everyone, but yet again your taking my words out of context. I think it maybe because I dont communicate well by text. Anyways I am going to stop this crap because you took something that was a funny story and destroyed for whatever reason. Have a nice day.
 
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