Gun Ownership and Social Stigma?

[Nushif]

This is true, but, does a movement exist inside of the USA who's sole purpose is to ban motorcycles?

That is exactly what I was getting at. But the problem I perceive is not so much that movement, but that we are making it almost a shame in and of itself to not conform to the avoidance doctrine this very movement has created.

We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime. this isn't Brady folks. This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

The same community that says we ought to be good examples of gun ownership says I ought not tell my neighbors? Or my family, at times?

And in a round-about sense, that's kind of what I wanted to talk about here. I mean, isn't it the slightest bit schizophrenic to say we need to further our sport and our liberties but hide them away in safe's worth thousands of dollars?

 

[FourTeeFive]

Same with many here, friends know I shoot, even though some aren't exactly "pro-gun". And I talk about it. However, I am careful to close the garage door when loading or unloading weapons, etc. And I'm in a very nice neighborhood. But to me guns are like fancy stereo equipment or nice jewelry. You don't flaunt where it is located to people you don't know.

As an aside, I live in Western Washington in a VERY liberal area. And have taken some very liberal people shooting. I don't think liberal voters are nearly as anti-gun as liberal politicians. Just an observation...

 

[FourTeeFive]

As a related note to all of this, I was at a friend of a friend's house for a party and we were in the basement rec room which had the usual pool table and bar. I see a short hallway and a door with a lock on it, and in the hallway is a display of a LOT of gun manufacturer lapel pins and badges. I didn't think too much of it but commented on it to the guy's wife and she said "oh yeah, he's got a whole room down there full of stuff. I don't go in there...". And that was that. I know they have a lot of money and I know this guy likes very nice things, so I can only imagine what was in that room. But I've never heard her once mention him shooting and I only met him once, briefly. I think he keeps his gun world and her world separate.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

There IS social stigma attached to firearms ownership in many areas of the country, though I think it peaked with Clinton and has been waning since the Democrats ran into trouble riding that horse.

Until recently I lived in the SF Bay area of California and worked for Xerox. Most of my co workers and a majority of our customers sang in the Pellosi/Boxer choir so I did not make a point of mentioning my interest in firearms. Many of the people who react badly to firearms have arbitrary attitudes (prejudices) about other things as well and they are difficult enough to work with without locking their sphincters up by mentioning firearms.

Otherwise, my greatest concern is theft. I do not advertise other possessions of value, either. I used to have an NRA sticker on my car but decided that was advertising for theft.

 

[22-rimfire]

I don't concern myself with any sort of social stigma. I keep my ownership of firearms generally low key because of theft and other criminal activity. The same applies to how much cash I carry with me daily or have at home, and ownership of other valuables (jewelry, art, coin collections, ammunition, ... you name it; it is all the same stuff that I move personally when I move from one house to another.)

 

[Jonah71]

In a town of 3000 where a very large segment of the population carry, I don't give it a second thought. Nor do I care about the opinions of any anti gun liberals. Pretty scarce around here anyway. So are criminals.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Until recently I lived in the SF Bay area of California and worked for Xerox. Most of my co workers and a majority of our customers sang in the Pellosi/Boxer choir so I did not make a point of mentioning my interest in firearms. Many of the people who react badly to firearms have arbitrary attitudes (prejudices) about other things as well and they are difficult enough to work with without locking their sphincters up by mentioning firearms.

Isn't it interesting how people who think they are "liberal" are really prejudiced about certain things? I guess their mirrors work differently than mine...

 

[Old krow]

We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime.

That is exactly what I was getting at. But the problem I perceive is not so much that movement, but that we are making it almost a shame in and of itself to not conform to the avoidance doctrine this very movement has created.

Yes, I'd agree that this does indeed happen. It's really two separate issues though isn't it? We might have chosen a "one size fits all solution" but, the issue social stigma and the issue of security are really two different issues.

Human nature is human nature and there's little that we can do about that other than to figure out how to work around it. When you first meet someone you're more likely to form an opinion of the person based on what you see, like their hobbies. Conversely, after you know someone you're more likely to form an opinion of the hobby (assuming that you knew little or nothing about it firsthand) based at least partially on the person. This wouldn't really be "the rule" but the odds are higher that you'll have more influence in RKBA issues if the person that you're talking to deems you a "good person" before the conversation takes place. You always going to meet someone that absolutely hates guns no matter what you do, but, other times it makes a difference. Some take this approach. There are a lot of folks out there that introduce people to shooting and take new shooters to the range all the time. This is of course just my opinion on the matter, but if that is the approach that one takes, there's typically some amount of discretion involved. I think that some of the "generally keep it low key" or "discuss only with people I know" answer would fall into this category.

In the past I have had a lot of different reactions. Most weren't negative, some were. If we're going to promote RKBA that's the cost if doing business.

On the issue of theft, it does happen. I'm not responsible for anybody else's home and security, so I have little to say about the measures that they take to protect it except that I think they are 2 different issues. Personally, I think that if we addressed these as separate issues, even though it seems at times that we use the same solution for both, we would get a little farther in promoting the RKBA. Just my .02.

 

[Kingofthehill]

after my trip to San Jose last x-mas, i removed the NRA sticker on my laptop. When they saw that they pulled me aside asking questions about it. They made a lot of effort to make me sound like an evil person for owning guns and displaying an NRA sticker on my laptop.

I keep gun ownership/collecting/shooting quite when at work, and now i won't even display a sticker on any personal items while traveling by air.

i hate that it is that way but those idiots with wands have too much power for their own good.

 

[Nushif]

Personally, I think that if we addressed these as separate issues, even though it seems at times that we use the same solution for both, we would get a little farther in promoting the RKBA.

That is some pretty good stuff there.

How would you picture, in a perfect world of course to somehow not equate locking your guns up for fear of theft and locking your guns away for fear of "people knowing?"

It's a tough question I realize and I am thinking about it, myself, but I do think that this is the core of the dichotomy here.

One ought to be a good stewart and ambassador to private ownership, but one ought to also keep mum about even owning guns? I don't see this as compatible, and I do think that this is a problem.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I agree with Old krow to a large extent.

I keep the firearms interest on the back burner so that doesn't get in the way of people recognizing that I am a "good" person. When I know what the relationship to the person is I may introduce them to my interests.

If they are fellow enthusiasts we can then have a good conversation. If they are someone I value they can see that "good" people are owners and I can build from there.

If they are likely to be prejudiced against firearms ownership and I need to deal with them for business or such I co not mention my interests.

I have had a couple of surprises when I've misjudged this second group. I assumed PIXAR to be a den of prejudice only to find firearms photos and info openly displayed in the IT offices. Had a great conversation after that. The second is that I have a habit of assuming that gays are in "that" liberal class and avoided firearms conversation with a good friend who is lesbian. One day at lunch she voluntarily came up with the comment that she wanted to shoot a gun. Excellent conversation and day at the range after that.

If people turn out to be a pain in the arse and I don't need to be diplomatic then I will express my opinions openly when the conversation goes that way and let them deal with it.

 

[DAP90]

We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime. this isn't Brady folks. This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

There’s a difference between cautioning people not to give too many details regarding what you have for guns and admitting that you’re a shooter. Guns are a high value target for theft. It’s a fact. They are valuable, portable and in demand.

One ought to be a good stewart and ambassador to private ownership, but one ought to also keep mum about even owning guns? I don't see this as compatible, and I do think that this is a problem.

I’d say it’s more a case of knowing what to say to a given person. If you have someone who’s receptive, be a good ambassador. If you’re not sure you can trust a given person (maybe you get a bad vibe) then maybe not mention you have a large collection of handguns during your firearms conversations. If a person is a true anti, then pick your battles. “Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference.”

 

[FourTeeFive]

I work for a large Indian company and a while back was in the home office (in India) meeting with colleagues and an Australian business partner. The topic of guns came up at lunch and someone asked me if I owned any guns. I said yes and everyone at the table went quiet for a second and looked at me like I had grown a third eye.

Whenever I've talked about guns in the UK I've gotten a lot of positive response and, frankly, envy. Most of the guys want to go shooting when they visit the USA.

I'm not making an argument that we should conceal that we're gun enthusiast, just that it's a different playing field than other hobbies and/or fiscal investments.

Agreed.

 

[FourTeeFive]

This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

And you'll probably find the same attitude going to a Porsche or Ducati owner's forum.

Like it or not we own items that have a high perceived value with the criminal element.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

I think this is almost more a personality issue than anything else. Some people are very outgoing and gregarious and talk about their hobbies with people all the time, often to people they don't know very well. That's fine.

I'm not an outgoing person at all. I keep to myself mostly, and don't discuss my private life, hobbies, and so forth, unless prompted and even then only if I feel comfortable about it. So if somebody brought up the subject I would be willing to discuss it, but I don't volunteer anything. That's just how I am. It's got nothing to do with social stigmas, probably a bit to do with theft-deterrent, but mainly it's a consequence of being a very private person.

 

[JustinJ]

Remember, it's hard to argue about responsible gun ownership if our weapons are frequently being stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals. Not to say we shouldnt try to share our hobby, in fact we definitely should for the sake of gun rights, but in a wise way.

 

[22-rimfire]

I share my hobby with people of similar interests. As a result, I seldom have to watch my backside. Guns are an indication of wealth and a burglar could probably make a reasonable guess that if you have a lot of guns, you more than likely have a lot of other easily sellable stuff. Even 4 or 5 guns is a pretty good haul for a thief.

Even if I could trust eveyone, I still would not share information about my accumulations.

 

[dec41971]

One of my best friends constantly berates gun ownership says you only have one to kill people no other point. I know this guy 21yrs! He has no idea about my pro-2A believes because I think he is a hopeless case. Opinionated to the point you can't talk any sense into him. That, plus I really don't care for arguements with people over guns. Imagine if these folks knew, it worse than just stigma, they'd think I lost it.

 

[Old krow]

How would you picture, in a perfect world of course to somehow not equate locking your guns up for fear of theft and locking your guns away for fear of "people knowing?"

Security of our firearms will always be an issue. There's little that we can do to control the criminal element in society. Even if we could, the gears of change would be slow. The fact that we do take the extra means to secure our firearms makes us that much more credible to those whom have not formed a concrete opinion based on misinformation, fear, and mass hysteria. Of course there will always be those who will not listen to reason.

There’s a difference between cautioning people not to give too many details regarding what you have for guns and admitting that you’re a shooter.

I think that this sums it up pretty well.

If we're in the "closet", we've put ourselves there. I think that it is a fair assessment to say that the majority of the stigma comes from two places; politicians and the media. It's been said on this forum before that we shouldn't tie a political affiliation to our RKBA. I believe that this sound logic.

Here's something to look at. The biggest single face in the shooting world is the NRA. Whether you like, dislike, agree, or disagree, they're a major player in the RKBA. If I have my numbers right, there are roughly 4.3 million members? Total gun ownership is roughly 80 million... give or take a couple million? So, there are over 75 million gun owners out there that don't join for one reason or another. How much of that social stigma? How much is apathy?

Ask yourself one question and answer it honestly. If all 80 million joined and all 80 million sported the "I'm the NRA and I vote" bumper sticker, how would the stigma situation look then? If one in four cars had that bumper sticker, would we feel isolated? Some would due to where they live, but on average how would that work out? How would the demographics look then? If we concede that our NRA bumper stickers raise our odds of being robbed, shouldn't we also concede that more gun ownership equals more crime? If every gun owner joined, we could no longer say that they're politically biased can we? Would that help or hurt the stigma? Okay, so that was more than more than one question...

Just something to think about.

 

[DH999]

It's totally dependent on where you live / work. I work in New York City in a corporate office and it is clearly not a good a idea to be talking about shooting and firearms in my office. I'm not about to do it to make a point as it would obviously be out of place in this setting (given that most people in NYC have no experience with guns and gun ownership). It would make people nervous and it would be career limiting for me to do so.

Now in the South and many many other parts of the country things are very different.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

*Sigh* Things go in cycles and hopefully we are on the track to enlightenment. Pre 2001 I got a complement on this shirt as I got off a flight. Now I couldn't get on the airplane wearing it.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I keep things on the down low---mostly to prevent theft--secondly its nobody's business on what I do or don't do---and I live in a good area.

Nothing comes out of the car until the garage door is shut----this includes groceries or even lunch from McDonalds.

Even when I bought my flat screen TV---the box didn't go to the curb---I loaded in the car and stuck it in the dumpster at my old apts.

 

[Nushif]

I keep things on the down low---mostly to prevent theft--secondly its nobody's business on what I do or don't do---and I live in a good area.

Nothing comes out of the car until the garage door is shut----this includes groceries or even lunch from McDonalds.

Even when I bought my flat screen TV---the box didn't go to the curb---I loaded in the car and stuck it in the dumpster at my old apts.

This is a particularly stark reminder of what I am thinking about.

I understand some measures to prevent theft but I honestly have to say ... what are you so scared of?!
I understand OpSec ... (cracks me up every time) at least I better, but this is bordering on something that would have you be an outcast in all circles I have ever lived in. "That creepy neighbor" I think is the vernacular.

You don't get responses like that when you deal with your neighbors? (If you deal with your neighbors) or within your community? Maybe I have only ever lived in close knit communities, but behavior like that is more suspicious than anything else.

 

[DC Plumber]

I don't like to display things..........., can't find the exact words, but I see muscle bound guys wearing shirts with the sleeves cut off, showing off their tattoos, women with big breasts, wearing skimpy low cut shirts (not that I'm not looking), but I like to fly below the radar. I'm not ashamed of my guns, I'm not scared, foolish, weak or any of the other adjectives used in previous posts, I just choose not to display. I'm 6'4" and 230 lbs. and could whoop most people walking down the street, but I don't show off my build, I don't play loud music with my window rolled down, I have a tattoo but don't cut off my sleeves and show off my muscles with my tattoo on them. I have a modified truck with lots of power, but it's a sleeper. No big stacks, no mag tires, no stickers. Am I ashamed of my brand of truck? No, I just like to lay low, fly below the radar.

Now before anyone goes off on me, I don't look down on anyone who does something different than me, but don't think I'm a slouch or a dweeb because I don't flaunt what I got. My wife is well built, but she's a conservative dresser and drives a plain family car with the kids in tow.

Some people like to display, others don't. I'm one that doesn't.

 

[feedthehogs]

I keep the firearms interest on the back burner so that doesn't get in the way of people recognizing that I am a "good" person

You need better friends.

There are two types of gun owners.
Those who read all the magazines, peruse the internet, get dressed up in the latest tac gear for a trip to the range, think mag pul is better than women, dry fire in front of the mirror, try and impress their friends with the latest info they learned on the net about an SKS and parade out their guns to who ever will sit still long enough to listen.

Those who use their guns for the purpose of getting food, recognize it as a tool, never use the word tactical, don't throw lead down the range just to hear the gun go boom and don't have to practice 3 times a week because they hit what they aim at every year they go hunting or the rare occasion they visit the range with a new purchase.

The former worries about social stigma and probably has face book, twitter and a host of other social media accounts.

The later will tell an anti gun person to kiss their a@@ if you don't like guns and uses a safe because they recognize that a safe is a wise investment given the drug addicted whinners the last few generations have produced..