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Gun ownership requirements around the world

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Orkanen, Sep 2, 2019.

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  1. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    Hand gun ownership requirements in Norway:
    Clean wrap sheet, no documented mental issues, 18 or older, approved handgun safety course with passed theoretical and practical exam, active membership in an approved gun club.
    You can apply for gun purchase approval no sooner than 6 months after you pass your safety course and join a club. Practice activity is logged by the club, who also deems what's considered activity, secretary or foreman approves your applications and you hand them to the police bureaucracy for processing, which takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months, depending on county.
    You can keep your weapons as long as you can show a minimum activity of 4 training or competition sessions per year, as well as maintaining your gun club membership. Checks for activity are scarce. Police can demand you sell your guns, or confiscate them, if you leave your club without joining another.
    When applying for a gun, you also state its purpose, generally in which recreation or competition class you wish to use it in, and if you have more than one gun, why you can't use the one you already have. Above a certain level of activity, you can apply for more than one gun of same calibre and usage. There are also collectors licences where, and to my knowledge, the guns are more for show than use. One of my cousins has such a licence, boasting ownership among his many possessions, of 3 1911s and 1 1914.
    Hunting with handguns is not permitted in Norway.

    For those interested in competition rules:

    Handguns are grouped and separated in classes.
    Group 1: Pistols can have a maximum size of 300 x 150 x 50 mm a maximum weight of 1,400 kg
    (1F) Small pistol, 22LR.
    (1G) Large pistol, .30 and up to maximum permitted calibre in Norway, .455.
    (1M) Military, from 9 mm to .455. Minimum projectile weight 100 gr, minimum factor of 120, which means projectile mass in grain x velocity fps / 1000 should be equal or higher than 120. Stock grips
    (1R) Revolver, from 9 mm to .455 for adults, teens can use .22.
    Group 2
    (1S) Miniature revolver, should fit inside a box of 200 x 150 x 40 mm, weigh no more than 1,000 g
    (1S) Miniature pistol, should fit inside a box of 185 x 125 x 35 mm, weigh no more than 800 g
    Group 3
    (1S) Magnum I, .357 to .40. Minimum projectile weight 140 gr, minimum factor 190
    (1S) Magnum II, .41 to .505. Minimum projectile weight 210 gr, minimum factor 275

    There's more to it than this in some classes, like shell length, grip shape and so on.
     
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  2. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Can collectors' guns be operable, or are they required to be deactivated?
     
  3. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    I'm afraid I don't know enough about it. I'm having a hard time finding information on the subject. I've understood from my cousin that they're operable. Collectors weapons are occasionally for sale here, requiring a licence. Deactivated weapons are licence free and can be bought by anyone.
     
  4. 38riverrat

    38riverrat Member

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    Can you keep your handguns at home, or do they have to be kept at the club?

    Best,
    Rick
     
  5. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    I can keep my handguns at home as long as I possess a required insurance approved safe. The safe has to be placed inside my home, not in a shed. Gunpowder and ammunition is to be stored in a locked room or closet.

    How are rules in Washington State?
     
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  6. 38riverrat

    38riverrat Member

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    {How are rules in Washington State?}

    In a word, deteriorating!
    But, with a Concealed Carry Permit, I can still carry revolvers and semi autos of my choice, in most places.
    Previously, I could go into a gun store and walk out about an hour later with a new handgun. This is because I have a carry permit which required a background check, including fingerprinting. Now, there is a waiting period of up to 30 days to get another background check, by my County Sheriff. So far, we don't need any kind of training to own guns in Washington State, but the Legislature is trying to change that. New rules just went into effect that require guns to be secure in some kind of locked storage.
    I am interested in the gun laws of Norway, since most of my ancestors came from there about 140 years ago.

    Best,
    Rick
     
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  7. Jammersix

    Jammersix Member

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    The new laws in Washington state don't require any weapons to be locked up.
     
  8. 38riverrat

    38riverrat Member

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    I guess we will have to wait until the Judges tell us what the new law means.

    [And people of all ages are supposed to comply with strict new storage requirements. "A person who stores or leaves a firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a prohibited person may gain access to the firearm" is now "guilty of community endangerment due to unsafe storage of a firearm" if "a prohibited person" accesses the gun and uses it. This requirement has been met with heavy backlash, with critics pointing out the potentially dangerous consequences of making weapons more inaccessible in a life-threatening situation.


    While the new law stipulates that nothing in it "mandates how or where a firearm must be stored," it also says that the only way to surely avoid unsafe-storage penalties is through either "secure gun storage" or "a trigger lock or similar device that is designed to prevent the unauthorized use or discharge of the firearm." Secure gun storage is defined as a "locked box, gun safe, or other secure locked storage space designed to prevent unauthorized use or discharge of a firearm."]

    Best,
    Rick
     
  9. Jammersix

    Jammersix Member

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    The law is about allowing prohibited folks access, not storage.

    And then only if it actually happens.

    But wait for a decision if you want. Personally, I'd be surprised if it makes it to appellate court over interpretation.

    The statement you made that I quoted remains untrue.
     
  10. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    In any event, we already have legal obligations to store our firearms responsibly and can incur civil (or in some cases criminal) responsibility if we fail to do so.

    1. Tort liability if someone gets your allegedly improperly stored gun and hurts someone with it will generally be based on negligence. Negligence in law is basically:
      Negligence is generally a question for a jury. Basically the jury will need to decide, after all the evidence about what took place and what everyone said or did is presented whether the defendant acted as a reasonable and prudent person would in the same situation.

      So --
      • In general, everyone has a legal duty to exercise due care to avoid reasonably foreseeable injury to others. If one is found not to have done so and thus caused damage to another, he could be required to compensate the injured person for that damage.

      • A gun is a potentially dangerous instrumentality. If someone stores his gun in a manner in which it is foreseeable that it can be accessed by an unauthorized person, such as one's child, and such person gets the gun and hurts someone, under some circumstances a jury might decide that the gun owner failed to exercise appropriate care and may be held financially liable.

      • These sorts of results are highly circumstance dependent. Whether there can be liability will be a matter of exactly what happened and how.

      • Consider this case from gun-friendly Montana, Estate of Strever v. Cline, 278 Mont. 165 (Mont., 1995), at 174 -- 175 (emphasis added):

    2. There are federal cases that suggest that a person could be criminally liable for aiding and abetting the illegal possession of a gun by a prohibited person, if the prohibited person is a visitor, house guest, or cohabitant, and has access to you gun.

      • Possession is defined broadly. See U.S. v. Booth, 111 F.3d 1 (C.A.1 (Mass.), 1997, at 1):

      • See U.S. v. Barron-Rivera, 922 F.2d 549 (C.A.9 (Wash.), 1991) in which Barron-Rivera's conviction for being an alien in possession of a firearm was affirmed without him even having had to touch a gun. Barron-Rivera's claimed reversible error in that the government failed to prove the necessary intent.

        The court of appeal noted, at 551:

        In affirming the conviction, the court of appeal found, at 551 -- 552:

        While it doesn't appear Barron-Rivera's wife doesn't appear to have been charged with aiding and abetting, but it looks like she could have been. See Huet discussed below.

      • See, also, United States v. Huet, 665 F.3d 588 (3rd Cir., 2012), in which the gun a prohibited person was charged with illegally possessing was not secured against the prohibited person's access, supporting both the prohibited person's conviction for unlawful possession of a gun and the indictment of his cohabitant. From the opinion (at pg. 593, emphasis added):
        So the gun Hall, a convicted felon, was indicted for unlawfully possessing, belonged to his cohabitant, Huet. It appears to have been undisputed that Huet could lawfully possess firearms. Nonetheless, she was indicted for aiding and abetting Hall's unlawful possession of gun because Huet's gun wasn't secured against access by Hall.
     
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  11. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    I then take it you understand Norwegian to some degree? This website will fill you in on the basics of acquiring a weapon. Norways gun association should be able to answer most questions. Yes, it's a messy site.
     
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  12. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    I've read several stories through the years giving me the impression that you Americans to some degree lack a form of personal responsibility for your actions where you can claim ignorance. I find things like warning labels on coffee cups stating contents may be hot, and don't warm up your pet in a micro-wave oven, to be odd. A story I came across years ago about a woman suing a store and winning after having tripped over a toddler and broken a leg baffled me, particularly when learning the toddler was hers. Not to mention your incredibly long and ridiculously complex disclaimers accompanying products of any kind. Here, RTFM or you're to blame.

    Because of this, my first thought after reading your post was that if you are too scared to defend yourself and a perpetrator snatches your gun and hurts someone with it, you're to blame. I hope it isn't so.

    I appreciate your post and quotes, giving me more insight into the workings of your culture. Here, since a firearm takes time to acquire and are usually costy to buy and keep anyway, one might as well buy a good one and take well care of it. Which is why when buying a revolver, I bought a Manurhin MR73 instead of a S&W 686 Performance Centre.
     
  13. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    How is Norway for black powder firearms? do they distinguish a cartridge firearm from a black powder firearm? My understanding is that, in many countries, a percussion revolver would be easier to obtain. In France they are relatively unregulated.
     
  14. Jammersix

    Jammersix Member

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    I agree with the duty. (Opinion) There is certainly a moral duty, even in the absence of a legal duty. (End Opinion.)

    If you own a gun, you need a safe.
     
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  15. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    Generally, percussion revolvers made before 1890 and guns with unobtainable ammunition are not regulated. One is for black powder required to apply with the same paperwork as for weapons, limited to 1 kg at a time.

    One cannot buy ammo, primers, regular powder, shells, or projectiles without producing a weapon registration card.
     
  16. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Sadly there are always people an any group that fail to accept personal responsibility for their actions,
    It is understandable in children who do not know better, but in adults.....
     
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  17. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    We have them here too. In abundance.

    But back to topic. Any laws and requirements worth mentioning in Southern California?
     
  18. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    :eek: Ah yes
    To keep it reasonably short, a quick summary
    All Transfers must go thru a FFL except certain inter family transfers
    You can only purchase new handguns off the (small) approved list, nothing new can be approved unless it microstamps (which of course does not work)
    https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns
    (the handgun list does not apply to sworn peace officers)
    No new "Assault weapons" Claifornia has there own unique list of thing that makes the gun evil, exits ones had to be registered alreay
    https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2
    Background check for ammo purchases (with a fee of course)
    No giving ammo to friends (some exceptions but you can't for example say "thanks Bill for fixing my washing machine I know you needed ammo for you XYZ so here are a couple boxes since I have extras"
    Limits on the amount of powder and primers an individual may have (can't stock up to many reloading components)
    10 day waiting period
    1 handgun purchase per month, (most likely one gun per month soon)
    New mags have a limit of 10 rounds
    Concealed carry requires a permit from your county sheriff, good in the State once you have it, getting one in some counties is next to impossible (our sheriff is gun friendly)
    Red Flag laws, your guns can be taken without due process in violation of what the Constitution of the US says (at least IMO)
    No .50 BMG rifles, certain other evil guns are banned by name

    there is more (lots) but that's hitting the major points
    (and there seem to be new laws on the way all the time)
     
  19. Jammersix

    Jammersix Member

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    Seeing a judge and getting a warrant is due process.
     
  20. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    I have, so far, 2 handguns. A Pardini SP 22lr RF and a Manurhin MR-73. Neither of them are mentioned in the certified list. Does that mean it's not legal to possess them in California?
     
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  21. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    You poor SOBs.. I weep and pray for you,,,,, :( :(
     
  22. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    If you owned them it would be ok as long as the mags go in the pistol grip. (don't have time to look them up now and I am not familiar with either one)
    A handgun with the mag in front of the grip, like a broomhandle Mauser would be on the evil list and be considered an "assault weapon."
    If one them was damaged, lost, stolen etc you could not buy a new one if it was not on the list.
     
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  23. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    Hmm, it seems I possess an assault weapon...
    20190901_220918.jpg
    It's a .22, taking a maximum 5 + 1 rounds in its magazine.
    20190901_220850.jpg
    It's purely for competition purposes.

    I posted pictures of my Manurhin here.
     
  24. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Sweet Pistol:D

    CA has a special list of "Olympic" guns that are exempt I will have to check and see if your Pardini is on it.
    https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/op.pdf
    If not is not it would be considered, yes you guessed it, an Assault Weapon in CA. having the magazine in front of the grip makes it extra evil, I mean anybody should be able to tell by looking at it that is is extra evil.
    Electronic as well, might be a death ray capable of destroying tanks and jet airliners.
    :rofl:
    .
    CA is just sort of nuts. :eek:

    Edit:
    I checked, you would be ok if you were here, it is on the Olympic list by name.
    If it was not it would not matter at all that it should be on that list, for example if it was the new model XYZ that was almost the same.
    The Manurhin MR-73 appears to be on that list as well.

    Back when they made them CA decided green "plastic" Springfield XDs were different guns than black "plastic" Springfield XDs and required Springfield to have them tested separately(with the additional fee of course)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019 at 9:12 PM
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  25. Orkanen

    Orkanen Member

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    It was initially sold with an electronic trigger, neat but somewhat unreliable, so by the time I laid my grubby hands on it, that part had already been replaced with a mechanical one.
    That's what I keep hearing. Where else in the world would you find a "Governator"?
    We have equally greedy government officials and politicians here too, yet most of our additional taxes revolve around cars.

    Isn't the 2nd. Amendment valid in California?
     
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