gun parts--Grrrrr!

[Axis II]

So about a year ago i found a heat seal camo set for my Mossberg shotgun that has the interchangeable combs for slug and field barrel and lost the bolt that holds the cheek comb onto the stock. I haven't touched the gun in years cause i quit bird hunting but want to goose hunt this year so i call Mossberg to ask if its possible to get a new bolt. I get put on hold for 3-5min and she comes back and says yep i have that and its going to be $2.49+$8 shipping! I guess my way of thinking is a little off but i spent $400 on a shotgun and i need to buy a bolt that cost pennies to make. Cant you throw it in an envelope for me and a stamp? Nope it has to be shipped and 5-7 days.

I know its my fault for losing it and could see charging a customer for a more expensive piece but its a 2'' bolt! The shipping cost is what burned me more. I went through the same thing with CVA i stripped a screw on a scope base and they wanted $2 or so for a pack of 4 screws and $7 shipping so to optimize my shipping money i ordered 3-4 packs so i would have them. I'm going to take the stock off and go to home depot and fit the bolt to it for the time being and hopefully a permanent fix.

Sorry for the rant. I just don't get why companies cant say hey here's a bolt that cost us a nickel and put in an envelope and send it to me. Heck i would even pay for the bolt but double the charge on shipping is crazy. I had a brand new cva years ago the front fiber optic fell out while hunting and i called cause i couldn't find the same sights online and he says ill send you 2 sets of new sights and is there anything else. I said I bent the ramrod an using a tc universal how much are ramrods. He says ill include one with the sites, no charge. My new cva didn't come with the palm saver so i called and explained it didn't come with one and they said $25 or something outrageous like that. I passed and just use and old rag or something.

 

[milemaker13]

Some companies have outstanding Customer service, some are beyond poor. I agree with you on shipping as well. How can we be expected to pay more for shipping than the parts were ordered?? I get it... But I just don't get it!

 

[Scooter22]

Everything is inventoried these days so it's not like walking over to a bin and picking a part plus all the freebies add up. Then shipping is expensive these days. Unfortunately just the way it is now.

 

[drband]

I agree!

Lee Precision (one of the good guys) now ships most any small parts for presses for the cost of shipping only. Part cost always comes up $0.00 when I check out!

 

[JONWILL]

Should have gone to Home Depot.

 

[milemaker13]

Yeah, sometimes the hardware store is the way to go for screws or bolts. Maybe dress the head a little bit to blend in better.
Of course, you gotta know what your looking for. Can't be using cheap pot metal screws with spot welded heads for critical applications. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sorry for the rant. I just don't get why companies cant say hey here's a bolt that cost us a nickel and put in an envelope and send it to me.

That bolt probably cost them less than a nickel in quantity, but they had to catalog it, store it so that it can be easily and accurately retrieved and now they have to pay someone to go find the right one and pack/ship/update the inventory, etc., you're probably getting a pretty good deal.

Look at it this way. Starting now, put yourself on the clock. Once you're keeping track of your time, figure out what kind of bolt it is (size, thread, grade, etc.) and then procure it on your own, finding one from another source other than Mossberg and then either ordering it, or buying it at a local store. When you have it at home on your workbench, total up your costs. Purchase price, shipping (if applicable) gasoline/transportation (if applicable) and then pay yourself minimum wage for any time you expended to accomplish the task.

I think that the cost, including shipping that Mossberg charged won't look so bad with your new perspective.

It used to be that the gun companies would do what you describe, but times are changing. People want their savings on the front end of their gun ownership experience and aren't as concerned about what happens over the coming years. So the gun companies are doing their best to sell guns at the lowest possible price. I noticed awhile back that you can buy a brand new Beretta 92FS for about what I paid for my first Beretta 92FS back in the early 1990s. That's not really an exception--gun prices today are pretty similar to what they were over 20 years ago. Given that inflation has marched on, that means the gun companies are actually selling at lower prices and that means streamlining--and maybe surviving on smaller profit margins than they used to. That means less money to spend on storing parts and sending them out to customers at no charge. As an example, awhile back, I noticed a ton of Ruger parts for their older guns were showing up for sale at a large warehousing type retailer. It would seem that rather than deal with the hassle/expense of maintaining a stock of them on hand, Ruger simply liquidated much of their parts stock.

 

[chicharrones]

Unless companies are set up to mail a lot of envelopes and have USPS pick them up, those companies will be set up to use UPS or FedEx for daily pickups.

In this case, those companies will not send one of their employees to the local post office to stand in line to mail out a small item. That company will just put it into their standard outgoing shipping everyday which is usually UPS, in my experience. UPS is never as cheap as a small padded envelope sent through USPS.

 

[JohnKSa]

In this case, those companies will not send one of their employees to the local post office to stand in line to mail out a small item.

Of course. I'm not sure what you're responding to--I read back through the thread and I can't see where anyone claimed that each parts shipment meant a separate trip involving an employee driving to the post office. Even the ones who do ship via USPS would take all the packages from a day (or a couple of days) to the post office at once rather than doing a single trip for every part.

But it still costs money to ship things, even if there's a pickup, and it still costs money to pay an employee to retrieve the correct item, update the inventory, find packing materials, generate and enclose the proper paperwork, pack it, label it, put it in the shipping area to be picked up, and clear the order. And the person taking the order and entering it into the system isn't working for free either.

 

[Axis II]

Should have gone to Home Depot.

I would have done that first but didn't want to take the stock off the receiver and try and match something up. I highly doubt they will have anything that will be the right length and threads but ill give it a shot.

 

[Axis II]

That bolt probably cost them less than a nickel in quantity, but they had to catalog it, store it so that it can be easily and accurately retrieved and now they have to pay someone to go find the right one and pack/ship/update the inventory, etc., you're probably getting a pretty good deal.

Look at it this way. Starting now, put yourself on the clock. Once you're keeping track of your time, figure out what kind of bolt it is (size, thread, grade, etc.) and then procure it on your own, finding one from another source other than Mossberg and then either ordering it, or buying it at a local store. When you have it at home on your workbench, total up your costs. Purchase price, shipping (if applicable) gasoline/transportation (if applicable) and then pay yourself minimum wage for any time you expended to accomplish the task.

I think that the cost, including shipping that Mossberg charged won't look so bad with your new perspective.

It used to be that the gun companies would do what you describe, but times are changing. People want their savings on the front end of their gun ownership experience and aren't as concerned about what happens over the coming years. So the gun companies are doing their best to sell guns at the lowest possible price. I noticed awhile back that you can buy a brand new Beretta 92FS for about what I paid for my first Beretta 92FS back in the early 1990s. That's not really an exception--gun prices today are pretty similar to what they were over 20 years ago. Given that inflation has marched on, that means the gun companies are actually selling at lower prices and that means streamlining--and maybe surviving on smaller profit margins than they used to. That means less money to spend on storing parts and sending them out to customers at no charge. As an example, awhile back, I noticed a ton of Ruger parts for their older guns were showing up for sale at a large warehousing type retailer. It would seem that rather than deal with the hassle/expense of maintaining a stock of them on hand, Ruger simply liquidated much of their parts stock.

I factored my running around into the equation but she said 5-7 business days after the holiday and I would like to get out and pheasant hunt and possibly goose hunt before the end of January.

 

[MidRoad]

Have to agree with johnksa. Nothing's free . It cost time and money even just to talk to you on the phone. If you think that's bad, buy one of those green and yellow machines, with the woodland critter on the logo. You will crap yourself at the cost of something's.

Yes customer service is important. But you need to cover your own costs

 

[Axis II]

again I'm okay with paying triple the cost for a bolt my main issue is double the cost of the item in shipping. I talk with the mail guy at work when on break and sometimes help him carry some stuff and I've seen him stuff envelopes with some large, heavy stuff and its like $1 to mail it. As someone else states ups probably has a scheduled pickup with Mossberg so they must use ups. Work is the same way. Must us FedEx express for everything.
As far as paying someone to stock, pickup the phone, etc. I visit a mom and pop hardware store when I need things that home depot doesn't carry like nutz and bolts. I lost a bolt set for muddy climbing sticks and muddy said they don't stock parts so I went to the mom and pop hardware store that could probably barely pay their rent and walked out with about 10 bolts, washers and nutz for like $4 and maybe under that. I actually felt a little bad when the elderly woman who I think is the owner told me how much it was. I get it all adds up and they need to pay employees but IMO sometimes taking care of the customer is better. I had a car dealer try and charge me to look at a rattle noise under the truck while they were doing other work. I said the trucks already in the air why the extra charge your already getting $ for parts and labor. I guess my way of thinking to take care of people is a little different.

 

[JohnKSa]

...my main issue is double the cost of the item in shipping. ...its like $1 to mail it...

It's actually a shipping and handling fee if that makes you feel better. They could charge you 10x the actual cost of the bolt and still lose money on it by the time they pay someone to actually do everything required to get it to the door so it can be taken to the post office or picked up by the shipper.

...sometimes taking care of the customer is better.

Sure. If they are getting very few calls like yours, then it might make sense to just eat the small cost of dealing with them. But there's no reason for us to assume that is the case. It's not hard to see that if they're they're getting a lot of calls like yours then they are going to have to increase their profit some other way to cover the cost of providing the service, or charge for the actual service.

Here's a good way to see if they're trying to make a profit on parts sales, or if they're just trying to break even on the transaction.

Go find a similar part for sale from another seller (say Brownell's or Midway) and see if they sell it for less, more or about the same. Just for fun, I checked what a Mossberg 500 stock bolt goes for on Midway. For my location it's $12 total--$7 for the bolt and $5 for the shipping. So they're charging a buck fifty more for a similar part with shipping included. The total at Brownells is essentially identical, but they're charging $8 for the bolt and $4 for shipping.

 

[Axis II]

It's actually a shipping and handling fee if that makes you feel better. They could charge you 10x the actual cost of the bolt and still lose money on it by the time they pay someone to actually do everything required to get it to the door so it can be taken to the post office or picked up by the shipper.Sure. If they are getting very few calls like yours, then it might make sense to just eat the small cost of dealing with them. But there's no reason for us to assume that is the case. It's not hard to see that if they're they're getting a lot of calls like yours then they are going to have to increase their profit some other way to cover the cost of providing the service, or charge for the actual service.

Here's a good way to see if they're trying to make a profit on parts sales, or if they're just trying to break even on the transaction.

Go find a similar part for sale from another seller (say Brownell's or Midway) and see if they sell it for less, more or about the same. Just for fun, I checked what a Mossberg 500 stock bolt goes for on Midway. For my location it's $12 total--$7 for the bolt and $5 for the shipping. So they're charging a buck fifty more for a similar part with shipping included. The total at Brownells is essentially identical, but they're charging $8 for the bolt and $4 for shipping.

Mossberg told me the reason I couldn't find that bolt on their website or brownells or midway is they don't stock it. Its a specialty bolt. I asked for a part number to find it elsewhere and was told that bolt which is only for the cheek riser is only sold by Mossberg. I see where your coming from on paying people, etc. I guess I'm old school where you do whatever it takes to make a happy customer within reason. With my OP cva comment cva sent me the items all free and I told the guy it wasn't necessary I would pay for the ramrod and only needed one sight. He said the sights had issues and were warrantied and the extra was a backup and the ramrod which was a more expensive one then I had was a gift. this was before BPI took over cva. Ive dealt with savage and didn't send a warranty card in and the girl said free ship to and from don't worry about a warranty card and replaced everything free of charge. Mossberg put a bad taste in my mouth when my buddy purchased a 12ga youth model that was special ordered and it wont cycle shells and Mossberg told him he had to pay shipping too and from them. He bought the gun, went home put 2 shells in it and wouldn't chamber them. some rounds wouldn't even fire. He said ill ship to you and I want a brand new gun its the middle of hunting season I'm not waiting 3 months for a fix. they laughed at him. I get they have overhead but the $2 they are making on that bolt isn't paying for much.

This is kind of turning into an argument/debate which it wasn't intended to be. . I said my peace.

 

[hdwhit]

ohihunter wrote:
Sorry for the rant. I just don't get why companies cant say hey here's a bolt that cost us a nickel and put in an envelope and send it to me.

That's probably what they are going to do.

The $2.49 is the cost of the "nickel" bolt plus the allocated costs of buying it, storing it, inventorying it, utilities for the warehouse it lived in until you needed it, the night watchman, insurance, a share of the cost of the warehouse itself plus the interest on the loan taken out to build the warehouse in the first place.

The $8 is the allocated cost of the person Mossberg pays to sit around its warehouse five days a week, fifty-two weeks a year waiting for someone to call in needing that "nickel" bolt and then go find it, bring it out of the warehouse, process the paperwork, put it in an envelope and make sure it gets off to you.

It's called "full absorption" accounting. You pay not only for the "nickel" bolt but the cost of acquiring it, storing it, securing it, accounting for it, and then when you need it being able to go get it and send it to you. When you read some simpleton complaining about the government paying $50 for a hammer that ended up as a line item on a contract, what you're looking at is $7 for the hammer and $43 worth of allocated costs, but the person writing the article doesn't understand (or is deliberately not admitting) that fact.

 

[hdwhit]

milemaker13 asked:
How can we be expected to pay more for shipping than the parts were ordered?

There's no connection between the cost of an item and the fully absorbed cost to inventory it, pull it, process it and ship it. It would be essentially the same cost whether you're sending a 5 cent washer or a 3 carat diamond.

 

[Scooter22]

again I'm okay with paying triple the cost for a bolt my main issue is double the cost of the item in shipping. I talk with the mail guy at work when on break and sometimes help him carry some stuff and I've seen him stuff envelopes with some large, heavy stuff and its like $1 to mail it. As someone else states ups probably has a scheduled pickup with Mossberg so they must use ups. Work is the same way. Must us FedEx express for everything.
As far as paying someone to stock, pickup the phone, etc. I visit a mom and pop hardware store when I need things that home depot doesn't carry like nutz and bolts. I lost a bolt set for muddy climbing sticks and muddy said they don't stock parts so I went to the mom and pop hardware store that could probably barely pay their rent and walked out with about 10 bolts, washers and nutz for like $4 and maybe under that. I actually felt a little bad when the elderly woman who I think is the owner told me how much it was. I get it all adds up and they need to pay employees but IMO sometimes taking care of the customer is better. I had a car dealer try and charge me to look at a rattle noise under the truck while they were doing other work. I said the trucks already in the air why the extra charge your already getting $ for parts and labor. I guess my way of thinking to take care of people is a little different.

Ok. Look at it this way. You NEED the bolt right. So pretend the Bolt costs 8.00 and the shipping is 2.49. What a DEAL. Go order it and relax until it shows up at your door.

 

[LoonWulf]

I would have done that first but didn't want to take the stock off the receiver and try and match something up. I highly doubt they will have anything that will be the right length and threads but ill give it a shot.

Ace is the place with...the largest selection of small bolts/screws/stuff.....
I get almost all my replacement screws at Ace now, tho specific stuff like scope mounting screws i keep a pile of spares for as they cannot be found anywhere (including fastenal) locally.

 

[JohnKSa]

Mossberg told me the reason I couldn't find that bolt on their website or brownells or midway is they don't stock it. Its a specialty bolt. I asked for a part number to find it elsewhere and was told that bolt which is only for the cheek riser is only sold by Mossberg.

Right. And in spite of the fact that it's a specialty bolt, only available from Mossberg, they were still willing to get it to your door for quite a bit less (relatively speaking) than either Midway or Brownells could do for a standard part that is widely available.

That strongly suggests that Mossberg isn't trying to make money on their parts sales, they're just trying to cover their costs. Otherwise, they would be charging at least as much as Midway or Brownells did--likely a good deal more since that particular part is a special part.

I get they have overhead but the $2 they are making on that bolt isn't paying for much.

It seems very unlikely that they are making anything at all on the bolt. They're just trying not to LOSE money on their parts sales.

 

[denton]

I spent about a year and a half helping optimize a call center for a major company. We figured it cost around $18 every time a technician picked up the phone.

The company probably lost money on your bolt transaction.

 

[BWS]

A few tools go a long way in becoming self sufficient.A thread pitch gage is dang handy,and not just for guns.Along with a 0-1" mic,and a dial calipre,there ain't too many bolts you can't "call out".

 

[Moparnut]

I don't know why people knock the gun manufacturers on this sort of thing. Brownells, numrich and midway all charge shipping fees. I don't hear a lot of people complaining when they do it.

Not trying to make anyone mad, just trying to point out how people praise one company and down another in the same breath, for doing the same exact thing.

 

[Theohazard]

This seems like a no-brainer to me. The OP lost a part on his shotgun, and with a simple phone call he can get that exact part straight from the manufacturer for $10.49? That’s cheaper than a sandwich at many restaurants.

This thread reeks of entitlement. For some reason, the OP feels that Mossberg owes him that part at a cheaper price, even though he’s the one who lost it and there’s no warranty issues involved. I wish it was as easy as a phone call and $10.49 to get replacement parts for everything else I own.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

This thread reeks of entitlement. For some reason, the OP feels that Mossberg owes him that part at a cheaper price, even though he’s the one who lost it and there’s no warranty issues involved. I wish it was as easy as a phone call and $10.49 to get replacement parts for everything else I own.

Is that really necessary?
Did you even consider that the OP is just frustrated that shipping and handling on the part are 3.2 times the cost of the part? For those of us that remember stamps in the single digits it can get frustrating when we actually have to send something to someone and we find out that the cost is in multiple dollars.

I recently sent a friend a gift that the shipping was multiple times the cost of the gift. It was very frustrating. I did it as the gift had more in symbolic meaning than the monetary value.

In this case, OP isn’t dealing with symbolic value but rather the value of the bolt vs the cost of the S&H. Some look at things that way. Others as this thread demonstrates look at things from an accounting perspective, or a value of the gun vs the total value of the part, and yet other do it other ways.

Also keep in mind, that many gun and reloading companies have incredible no questions asked warranties where they send guns and parts at no cost. So when we’re used to getting such good service it’s a bit frustrating when a company doesn’t provide that level of service.

I’ve been looking at getting a Mossberg shotgun soon, and this thread is actually helpful as I’ll weigh the cost of the gun, the level of service and known issues against competitors. The competing models I may consider cost more, so now I’ll have to factor in their better service and warranties and how much frustration the Mossy may cause me. That isn’t entitlement, it’s paying for the parts and service either via the cost of gun or via the part.

My John Deere tractor is a similar thing. They cost more but they have a great dealer network and all parts are available. Parts at the dealership also cost more than online. But when I need the part NOW I don’t mind paying more. I’ll also pay a bit more than mail order sometimes to give them business as I know the value of having them in business. On the other hand there are times I’ll mail order a part if I’m not in a hurry and if I think it’s way too expensive locally. I don’t mind paing a premium to support the local guy, or one for better service. And I don’t mind paying for parts and service if I’m aware of it. But had I purchased a Mossberg and not seen this and had a similar situation as OP, I’d be frustrated too.

So even though I’m frugal, I’m not cheap. And being frustrated isn’t being entitled.