Gun Registration in the US

[hostilecrab]

When you buy a new or used gun from a dealer, isn't the gun 'registered' after the federal background check is completed ?

Cause I always hear the dealer telling the person on the other line the make, model, serial number of the gun.

Is this not a form of gun 'registration' because the federal government now knows the make,model,serial number of gun you are buying ???

 

[hso]

No

The feds don't keep the data and those states that set up their own system are not supposed to (although there have been cases where the information was not purged within the required period).

 

[hostilecrab]

Thank You !

 

[Rockwell1]

The feds don't keep the data and those states that set up their own system are not supposed to

And of course we trust the Fed implicitly right?
Every gun I own was bought second hand off paper

 

[rbernie]

Cause I always hear the dealer telling the person on the other line the make, model, serial number of the gun.

What states require this? As far as I know, the actual Brady-mandated phone call does not.

 

[Gamera]

I've never heard them read off the serial number when I've purchased guns. They just specify "long gun" or "handgun" if I remember correctly.

 

[hostilecrab]

I live in Oregon. Each and every time I have purchased a new or used firearm, the dealer has stated that information to the background check person on the phone.

I'm guessing it's required because the background check person is asking the dealer for that information.

 

[highorder]

Cause I always hear the dealer telling the person on the other line the make, model, serial number of the gun.

wow, NEVER in Michigan or Ohio.

NICS just asks, "long gun or handgun"...

Now they must ask, "stripped receiver?"

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Cause I always hear the dealer telling the person on the other line the make, model, serial number of the gun.

I don't recall NICS doing this.

 

[rbernie]

I live in Oregon. Each and every time I have purchased a new or used firearm, the dealer has stated that information to the background check person on the phone.

I'm guessing it's required because the background check person is asking the dealer for that information

I just checked and Oregon, like Delaware, has a state hotline that's called to do a local check in addition/in replacement of the Brady check.

So the data is being provided to your state, not the Feds.

 

[Bubba613]

Yup, make model serial number caliber type of the gun. That's required. The reason is to catch guns that are "hot." Otherwise how would you know whether the used gun you bought from the dealer is clean or not?

But they destroy the info within 72 hours. Those with tinfoil hats on can ignore that last sentence as nothing will change your mind.
Now, if you buy on a multiple sales form, that does go into a database, probably forever.

 

[Sunray]

"...they destroy the info within 72 hours...." The ATF used their records to find out who had sold .223 rifles when those criminals were shooting up the DC area. Those ATF forms are defacto registration.

 

[Bubba613]

Proof?

 

[rbernie]

"...they destroy the info within 72 hours...." The ATF used their records to find out who had sold .223 rifles when those criminals were shooting up the DC area. Those ATF forms are de facto registration.

I do not believe this to be true. The fact that the killers were not local absolutely confounded their investigation, and it was an ID on the killer's car that led the police to the arrest.

Again - the Federal background check does not include firearm data. Certain specific states require a state-level check, and that check includes firearm data. Even in the case of Delaware, where the state was caught storing the data well past the legal limit in DE for destruction, there was no evidence that the data was shared with the Feds in any way.

In most states, the only way that the Feds get their hands on the equivalent of the 4473 is when the FFL goes out of business and ships the bound book in to the F Troop.

 

[Bubba613]

Thanks. I'm only familiar with Tennessee's system, which is a point of contact. And here we transmit gun information as well.

The other way ATF finds out info is by criminal investigation with inspection on premises of dealer's books and 4473s. But that's pretty time consuming.

 

[6_gunner]

Theoretically, there is no national registry.

However, if the government really wants to know what guns you have, I've little doubt that they could track down the information.

Gun shops have to keep all their paper work on file for twenty years, right? If the government ever decides to create a national registry, I expect them to seize all the records from gun dealers. Seems like the easiest way to do it.

If you're worried about the government knowing what guns you have, I would advise you to buy through private sales.

 

[Hawaiian]

The police go to the manufacturer with a serial number. The manufacturer tells them which distributor the gun was sold to who tells them which dealer it was sold to and the dealer tells them they sold it to YOU. The record trail is required and it is not hard to follow.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Hawaiian: "The police go to the manufacturer with a serial number. The manufacturer tells them which distributor the gun was sold to who tells them which dealer it was sold to and the dealer tells them they sold it to YOU. The record trail is required and it is not hard to follow."

And I tell them I sold it through Uncle Henry's last year to a cash buyer who called me from a throwaway phone and never gave his name. Or that it fell into the Allagash. Or that I hid it somewhere and forgot where I hid it.

Trace FAIL.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

And I tell them I sold it through Uncle Henry's last year to a cash buyer who called me from a throwaway phone and never gave his name. Or that it fell into the Allagash. Or that I hid it somewhere and forgot where I hid it.

If it really ever gets to the point that armed agents come to your home to collect your weapons, I think telling them that will likely provoke a search. JBT's will have no problem trashing your house, slapping your wife, and raping your dog as they look for the guns you can't remember what you did with.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

They can look. I wouldn't lie about actually possessing guns. That might be a crime. I'll even lead them to that place in the woods where I think I buried some -- where someone else recently must have found them with a metal detector and dug them up, seeing as how, whoa! There's nothing there but a big hole!

No, I may declare some, I may surrender some, I may lose some on someone else's property or even allow a friend to steal some, but I won't lie about having some. If I say I don't have any in my possession or know where any are, it's because I really don't. Torture, hypnosis, drugs or sex won't change my story, which will be eminently plausible -- and true.

 

[Hawaiian]

I just hope I never have to experience having them knock on my door. And if they did, I would not lie to an LEO.

 

[Gamera]

I'm with Duke on this one.

Hmmm... now wheeeere did I put that saiga......

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Hmmm... now wheeeere did I put that saiga......

Everybody has big balls on the internet, but if the ATF and a platoon of armed agents with a tank are standing on your front lawn requesting your guns, I bet your nads are gonna shink up and draw themselves back up into your belly where they came from, and you will hand your guns over like every other good citizen would.

 

[Gamera]

and you will hand your guns over like every other good subject would.

Fixed it for you.

But let's try to get this back on topic, this is supposed to be about general registration, not about a dictatorship trying to disarm the populace.

 

[Bubba613]

More Rambo fantasies.
Anyway, the trace works fine for new guns but for used guns taken in on trade it doesnt. There is no way for the ATF to trace where the gun went (or where it came from) unless it was sold on a multiple form or they physically inspected the dealer's books.
For those worried about an inspection, the amount of paper in a single dealer is mind boggling. Compiling that information would take a very long time. And by the time they got to it most of it would be out of date.