Registration

[kokogirl]

(1) In Texas, they claim there is no gun registration... though when I fill out a background check, forms attached to it include make, model, caliber and serial number. Dealer says it's just for records... but whoever the background check is going to, so is the purchase description. How is this not National registration?


(2) From what I understand, the "Gun Show Loophole" is the ability to purchase firearms from a dealer without a background check when attending gun shows. I tried this the other day, because I don't want any records of my future purchases (call it paranoia) but the dealer stood cold. I even showed my CHL and he wouldn't budge... not without all my info (for records of course).

Any comments?

 

[shield20]

1) the 4473 form stays with the dealer indefinetly, NOT registration per say, but a nosy investigator can look at them at any time. Background check call via NICS is just for "long gun" or whatever.

2)Gun Show "loophole" deals with face to face i.e. PRIVATE sales between normal citizens that are legal intrastate - no FFL required. Say I walk in with a Garand over my shoulder, I can sell that to you w/o needing a dealer to get involved. Typical dealer HAS to do things through his books.

 

[Caimlas]

That's precisely it: 4473 is firearm registration. It's only registration for guns sold through dealers, but in many states that's the only way you can get one.

 

[acdodd]

Say I walk in with a Garand over my shoulde

How much do you want for your Garand?
AC

 

[El Tejon]

1) ATFE has been compiling a registration list at their facility in West Virginia for decades now. On occassion this project has been leaked to the media but it is ignored by a government friendly media. For example, Ron Noble of ATF admitted in the mid-90s that they were computerizing 4473s and backcheck info. No one said a thing about this admission.

The records come from turned in 4473s, projects such as Operation Forward Trace (registraton of "military style Self-loading rifles), Pittsburgh Project (registration of pistols), the .50 Caliber Project (registration of .50 usmg rifles for their coming inclusion in the NFA when the Democrats return to power in 2009), paid informants, criminal investigations where a 4473 turns up, and the NCIS (remember they are registering the names, not the guns), instant background check registration. ATFE, when it can, also compiles lists of gun clubs, state associations and national gun rights groups (even if people do not have a 4473 they are placed on the raid list) which are usually obtained in conjunction with criminal investigations.

2) Your understanding is incorrect. Gun shows are not exempt from federal or state law despite the inane ramblings of the antis. A dealer must do a background check at his shop or at a gun show.

 

[M2 Carbine]

(1) In Texas, they claim there is no gun registration... though when I fill out a background check, forms attached to it include make, model, caliber and serial number. Dealer says it's just for records... but whoever the background check is going to, so is the purchase description. How is this not National registration?

You can call it registration, but only for the original owner.

If the original owner later sells the gun to an individual, as I have done many times, that is the end of the paper trail.

In TX you give the gun/money to a buyer (stranger) and he gives you the money/gun.

That is the law and the ONLY thing I will do. I give NO information in a FTF (face to face) gun transaction and I ask for NO information.

I use only one rule, common sense.
If I don't like the guy's looks I don't deal with him.

As the government becomes more and more restrictive, guns with no paper trail become more amd more valuable.

I even showed my CHL and he wouldn't budge...

Dealers (in TX) do not do NICS checks if you have a CHL.

 

[TX1911fan]

In Texas, if you have a CHL, there is no NICS background check, but you still fill out the 4473 form. If you buy from a smaller operation, the chances that their paperwork is easy to use and/or find is less likely. If you really want a gun with no paperwork, buy it used, face to face, from someone located in Texas who will not ask for your information, all of which is perfectly legal, but you need to communicate that up front because some people won't sell unless they have your name, DL number, etc. in case you use it for a crime, they want to be able to point the finger at someone else.

 

[kokogirl]

So are there any good Texas classifieds for getting an M4 or AK face-to-face.

I DO NOT want to have any paperwork whatsoever. I'll feel better after 2008. Maybe not.

 

[El Tejon]

What do you believe will happen in 2010?

 

[El Tejon]

A moderator pointed out my not giving any background. I apologize.

ATF first admitted to computerizing records on a now defunct television news show called "Day 1". Forrest "Run Forrest" Sawyer was the host. In the spring of 1994 he interviewed ATF and Pat Haynes and Ron Noble admitted to computerizing 4473s.

In November of 1994, Republicans won a majority of the House thanks to red hot anger over the VCCA of September 1994 (part of reason why Clinton did not sign it immediately as he wanted to give time for gun owners to do last minute shopping so they would not still be as angry in November). In 1995 hearings were held into the central registry of ATF. John Magaw, then ATF head, testified that some 2,500 FFLs were computerized in six months of 1994 and the project was ongoing. Ron Noble, assistant at Treasury, testified that ATF was doing this to "fight crime" to help trace guns more quickly despite and in contradiction to the '86 FOPA prohibition on doing exactly this.

Congress moved to cut off funding for ATF's registry. ATF diverted the money from other projects to continue their illegal registration program which continues to this day.

I apologize for acting as if everyone knew what I was talking about. I think younger THR members are shocked that the federal government has no little regard for the law. When it comes to guns, the government has absolutely no regard for the law.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Good memory, El T. Whatever happened to Ron?......