Gun rights in Europe post Charlie Hebdo

[Cee Zee]

I guess the equipment goes back a long way and in different areas. But that was for military use. We started doing it for fun!

The ride on top of the ridge is amazing!

I know a trail on top of a ridge that runs about 500 miles through 3 states. I haven't been there but I've been close. So many trails, so little time. It wouldn't be narrow like that all the way but it has it's spots. That trail in the video is pretty rugged. There are other videos showing trails in that system. I've spent a good bit of time there. Those ridge rides are great but IMO so are the trails back through sections you won't see another person in for a week at a time or more. I just made sure I had provisions for about 3 days if push came to shove. You can pretty much walk out to a more popular section in that time. Walking all the way out would take a week or more. Of course you can try climbing to the top of a mountain hoping you can get a phone signal but that can take 2 days.

I tell you what it makes for a heck of a vacation to spend a few days back in the woods on a machine like that. It really is crazy big for the eastern US. Many of those trail systems are on the most rugged mountains around. People don't use those mountains for anything else unless they cut timber or strip mine there. But the strip mines leave behind their own crazy trails.

The bears alone are enough reason to be armed when you go back in those woods. Then there's the 2 legged skunks. You just never know about some people. They think they have you out where they can do whatever they want to you. And there have been a few cases where people were shot while riding by people who just wanted to kill someone. Not much you can do about that but I have encountered some trouble in remote places that wasn't quite so bad. I rode right through a group of 3 hunters once and it was obvious they didn't like me being out in their "private" back yard (even though it's federal land). Plus you have the remote farmers to worry about in places. And some people get really, really upset if you happen to wander off government land even by mistake. I had some nut threaten me with a bow and I wasn't more than a few feet off federal land and I was basically already turning around when I saw him. But probably the worst encounter I had was with a pack of feral dogs. Dobermans to be exact. I was just lucky the trail opened up enough for me to hit the gas that day. I've had more than a few bad experiences out in the wild. Really it's worse closer to civilization. You don't see too many casual types way out there. They aren't the type to go looking for trouble when you find someone who's spent the money and the time to go out there a long way. What I never forget is that every hillbilly I run into (the real hillbillies - not so much the tourists) is going to be armed just like me and some of them aren't real sociable. But mostly it's people out there having fun of course. It's become a big business but when you get out there you wouldn't know it because you won't see that many people depending on where you go and how close to town you are. Speaking of town many areas let ATV riders come right into town to eat and get gas. Plus people stay in motels in town then ride to the trails. It's weird to see a bunch of ATV's riding down the streets of a town but it happens pretty much every day in places like Man, WV. My favorite is Gilbert, WV though. You leave town and ride straight up a mountain for half an hour or so into what's known as the Rockhouse Trail system. That ridge trail is one of many on that system. That's just a very small sample of what's out there though. Very small. You can ride a couple of days and never cover the same trail twice. Then there's what they call the playground where there are jumps, huge mud pits and stupid hill climbs. You can go there anytime of year too even if there's 2 feet of snow on the trails. I doubt you'll get far but one thing is sure. You need to be ready for whatever when you head out there.

Here's a video that shows another type of trail there, essentially an abandoned mining road or gas well road or timber road. I love the area because it is so remote. Keep in mind that these guys brought their own group. You can ride all day at times and never see a group like this especially if you go during the week instead of on the weekend. That's what I liked to do. There's only less than 100 miles of trails at Rockhouse but they are often extreme and it will seem like there are far more. There are about 300 miles of trails in the national forest area near my house. Some are on land owned by large paper companies and the like but it's rare that anyone cares if you're riding there. Lots of abandoned clay mines etc. make for a place that most people don't care about because for decades it looked like a lunar site. But it grew back while they weren't watching too close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76flbNc4DLc

 

[Snejdarek]

Charlie Hebdo's director did ask for a firearm permit for self protection

Ladies and Gentlemen, today I learned that Charb, the Charlie Hebdo editor, did ask for firearm permit/license for self protection.

The thought of a person that is facing death threats daily, is on Al Qaeda and a dozen other extremist hit lists, had been attacked in the past... the thought of such a person being denied by the government of his country the possibility of effective defense is just so, so completely, utterly wrong.

French: http://www.telerama.fr/medias/anton...s-engueulait-a-charlie,121621.php#links-right
Google translate: https://translate.google.com/transl...s-engueulait-a-charlie,121621.php#links-right

Charb was adept shooter. To offload the police presence, he asked a weapons permit [CC?]. Unanswered. He knew that his life was in danger. It was covered by a fatwa from al-Qaida, few rumored to not give ideas to lost souls. The threat remained diffuse.

(If anyone has better translation than Google, please be so kind and share it with us)

 

[Snejdarek]

Snejdarek - do many Czech women participate in the shooting sports or hunt? Several of the ladies & girls in my extended family hunt, and some have concealed carry licenses.

Two Czechs, Jitka Landová and Eva Puskarčíková just won Golden and Silver at Winter University Games women biatlon competition. For Landová, it is second Golden in a row after winning last year in Italy.

http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/sport/z...kam-za-viteznou-landovou-dojela-puskarcikova/

Are there any shooting-related university competitions in US?

 

[vaupet]

Charb was a avid sports shooter. (this means he probably had firearms at home wich he could carry to the gun shop or to the range, when he wanted to go out and shoot/train). To relieve himself of the constant police presence he asked for a "permis de porte d'armes" a permit to carry his guns around (comparable with a CC permit). Unanswered (wich has the same effect as denied)

 

[Cee Zee]

Governments are so scared of a coup that they want to disarm everyone. But they only manage to disarm those that are willing leaving the monsters and the gangsters as the only people around with guns. In some places the police don't even carry them. It's something I will never in my life understand. You can't put the gun genie back in the bottle. (warning - upcoming sarcasm alert) We do such a great job of controlling drugs it's no wonder the governments of the world think we should grab guns too. We are just so good at such things. (sarcasm ceasing)

Do a shake down in any prison in the world and you're likely to find a wide assortment of shanks and shivs. Even in the most controlled environment we have people still manage to have weapons. At least the people who don't care about "laws" have them anyway. It is profoundly absurd to ask the law abiding citizen to become willing sheep for the slaughter. "From my cold dead fingers..."

 

[vaupet]

I genuinely believe it has nothing to do with governments being scared of the people.

We don't have wars for several years now and governments do not oppres people here, they nurture them and make them dependent.
Free education, free healthcare, free public transport, almost free housing, and you can get almost 70% of the minimal wage for the rest of youre life, if you don't feel the need to work, if you support the socialist party during elections.
Kind of a stockholm syndrome, the government in the role of the villain.

Last year, we got rid of them for the first time in 30 years, and things are already starting to change.

But even the non socialist parties follow,"if you're not left wing when your're young, you don't have a heart,"
Socialism, again my opinion, is fed to the children from kintergarden, we have to help each other, be friendly to everyone, even the ones who come over here to 'steal from the system', violence is bad and is never to be tolerated, if someone bullies you, you run to the teacher, if someone threatenes you, you run to the police, so because government takes care and protects, why would you need a gun, after all, all that is going to happen is going to be bad.

I strongly believe this is the ofspring of the hippie/flower power movement, "make love, not war".

This vision took 40 years to get in, it will take more to get out, if ever, but I sure do try.
After all, if you don't get to the right when you get older, you don't have a brain.

 

[Cee Zee]

There's no doubt that the hippie counter culture pushed the anti-gun agenda along but gun grabbing was already a national sport long before that. Hitler was a perfect example in Europe. In the US the government has shown clear signs of fearing overthrow in the past. They mounted machine guns on the capitol building during the post Martin Luther King assassination riots in Washington in the 1960's. They were very much scared there would be an attempt to overthrow the government. That wasn't the only time they showed that fear. The 1932 Bonus Army March in Washington was another example. They might not fear overthrow in your country but there is a very strong current of individualism in this country that has threatened Washington before. In fact Washington surrounded the Pentagon with soldiers when the hippies went there to protest the Vietnam War. The hippies famously put flowers in the gun barrels of the soldiers there but there were certainly armed troops in position. There were several conflicts around the country including most famously Kent State which resulted in violence against protesters (because they were burning down ROTC buildings etc.). The FBI files on people like MLK and even Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin were later found to be full of paranoid visions of revolt on the part of the government. And probably the biggest file was on John Lennon. The government feared the counter culture and that remained a constant really until Bill Clinton took office.

 

[vaupet]

Fully agree Ceezee, but Hitler was some time ago, and he didn't set much of an example.

Recently though, i'm getting more and more weary, because either our politics send paratroopers in the streets, supposedly against terrorist or your politics deliver army stuff to the police (apc, helmets, body armour, full auto's etc visible during the riots against police brutality, I think I have even seen some M2 mounted on these armoured trucks)

not ot mention the use of drones over the us, or against us citizens

 

[Cee Zee]

You're got it. The police looks more and more like a military force every day. Then they don't even do anything about the rioters. The reason for that is they are scared of them. There are a bunch of guns floating around this country and if an armed and determined force decided to fight back against the police for whatever reason (however slight and misconceived) could cause a big amount of trouble. And that trouble could spread quickly. It's the reason the government throws money at the problems they have. It's the same reason the French do nothing about their problem class. It's just plain fear. And there isn't nearly the number of guns in that country as in ours.

I actually like it that the government fears the people. I certainly don't want any violence to take place but at the same time I don't want the government thinking they can do whatever they want. They know how many NRA members there are and they know they're all armed. So they fear us too. Rightly or wrongly it keeps them from going too far or at least going too far in big steps. Incrementalism seems to work for them.

 

[Snejdarek]

Slovakia likely source of some of the firearms used in Paris attacks

Now, this is unexpected: http://www.euronews.com/2015/02/18/charlie-hebdo-attacks-eu-gun-laws/

The Slovakian police officers tracked the guns to a shop in the west of Slovakia, where records revealed they were sold legally, as “expanz” (expansion) weapons. There is no suggestion that the store broke any laws.

Expansions weapons are originally live weapons, deactivated mechanically and turned into blank-firing guns to be used as props in movies, for historical reenactment or private collections. In Slovakia, such firearms are available over the counter, even the heaviest machine guns, to any person over 18. No license is required, just an ID.

Due to the specific deactivation method used in Slovakia, reversing the process is very easy, firearms expert Ľudovít Miklánek told Nový čas.

The Slovakian “movie prop” neutralisation method also does not affect the firing rate of the weapon, so blanks can be shot on full automatic setting. Consequently an illegal conversion will revert the firearm to its fully operational state.

Miklánek, a member of the gun rights association Legis Telum, compares the Slovakian method to that used in the neighbouring Czech Republic which is much harder to circumvent. Czech modified weapons cannot even be loaded with live rounds without extensive modification, which includes changing the barrel and other mechanical steps. Even then the gun still risks exploding when using live bullets.

With the Slovakian system, a conversion “depending on the type of weapons and equipment takes an hour, maybe two” he explains. “Foreigners have discovered that and have started using our weapons. They emerge in EU countries like Spain or France because we are in Schengen [the European Union area within which people and goods can move freely with few checks].”

This is a development that will surely not help the cause of legal firearm owners in EU.

 

[orionengnr]

I sincerely hope that the citizens of the various EU states become aware of the threat, and enact legislation that will contribute to their law-abiding citizens being part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.

Knowing public officials as I do, I believe this will be a very difficult proposition. We are having our own problems with this concept.

I wish you the best.