Gun rights in Europe post Charlie Hebdo

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Snejdarek, Jan 11, 2015.

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Will increased terrorist threat in Europe lead to less restrictive gun loss?

Poll closed Feb 10, 2015.
  1. Sooner or later, it will become inevitable.

    11 vote(s)
    3.1%
  2. Maybe, but I wouldn't bet my money on it.

    66 vote(s)
    18.8%
  3. Don't know / don't care.

    11 vote(s)
    3.1%
  4. Probably not.

    94 vote(s)
    26.8%
  5. On the contrary, more gun control will be introduced.

    169 vote(s)
    48.1%
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  1. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    You're not allowed to bring a gun into a court house, etc. in the US. They do allow you to leave things like pocket knives with the guards.

    BTW I've seen certain proof of the power of God to heal someone from what the medical community said was certain death. The person that was saved from that death was me. I was told I had 6 months to live. The year was 1989. After 4 rounds of chemotherapy (not just any chemo - I took about the strongest type and they gave me SIX times the normal dose) my tumors (yes they had spread) had not shrank or grown. An operation was out of the question because of the location of my tumors. The elders of the church laid hands on me on Sunday evening. I had another in an almost endless string of MRI's on Tuesday. My cancer was 100% gone. My doctor called it a miracle. So do I. God is real.

    That's far from the only evidence I've seen that we don't see everything in this world. I could go on for hours about that subject. Like inviting my father to church to hear my best friend sing. As my friend sang my father's favorite hymn (per my request) I bowed my head and said a silent prayer that I wanted to see my father go the altar and be saved. When I looked up my father was half way to the altar already. No way he heard what I said. But my heavenly Father did.

    The evidence is all around us. I've been dead too. I didn't see a thing like some people do. I still believe. It's called faith - ..."the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
     
  2. hq

    hq Member

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    There's a much easier and far more realistic way to put it: national socialists. Personally I have a strict standard based on how different political movements are divided to left and right, the latter having a sole meaning of an opposing force to any and all totalitarian and government-mandated control of economy as well as individual freedom and responsibility.

    As a principle this dates much further back in history than what's known as left and right these days. We have to remember that socialism is little more than ancient feudalism, the only difference being that the ruling class of hereditary nobility is replaced by party leaders. One of the most efficient and long-lasting feudal systems, in Japan, realized the meaning of disarming citizens early on and its benefits for wielding absolute power over defenseless subjects has been noted by today's political (yes, pretty much universally left-wing) elite. Most anti-gun activists are nothing more than pawns; like Stalin put it, useful idiots, who are brainwashed with a plethora of far-fetched excuses to actually believe they're doing something good. Nothing could be further from the truth, of course.
     
  3. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    Amen!
     
  4. lykoris

    lykoris Member

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    Your firearms license is issued by the judiciary of the Czech Republic, a nation state born from the dissolution of Czechoslovakia Jan 1 1993 (into the Czech Republic and Slovakia) following the collapse of the USSR. So yes, I stand by what I previously said - a new nation state.

    The EEC already gave free movement of goods, services, labour and capital...the common market existed long before the EU :scrutiny:

    A European firearms passport. Do you have one?

    It didn´t change much here. I cannot simply drive across the German, French or Belgian border with guns in the car. I need to be a member of a club in that country or need to have an invitation to an event which justifies transporting firearms. I still had to get approval from the French despite having a European passport up until quite recently. And it also limits the number of firearms you can transport to 10. You need to think long and hard what 10 firearms you put on it if you compete in numerous disciplines.

    I am quite curious to know if firearm owners in Slovakia have the same gun rights as those of you in the Czech Republic. What can you tell me about Slovakia?
     
  5. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    While there was some lessening of gun restrictions on firearm ownership right after the Velvet Revolution of 1989, the large overhaul of the law took place later after the two countries split in 1993. My knowledge of Slovak situation is not as detailed as it is regarding the Czech Republic, but from what I know:

    Licensing process: Slovakia has obligatory psychological exam. In the Czech Republic you need a stamp from general practitioner who may send you to a specialist in case he deems it necessary - that may be anything from eyesight specialist to psychologist. In reality you already go to your doctor knowing that you have psychological/mental history and you will need to go to a psychologist, or you don't and you won't need to. I think that majority of people with mental illness/psychological issues don't attempt to get firearms license, and I have never heard about anyone being sent for the psych eval. Apart from one guy who shot 3 people in 2013, AFTER passing the psych eval.

    In Slovakia the cops will go to your house, your neighbors, your coworkers and ask about you when you are applying for the license.
    At the same time they won't tell them it is about license, so the people might get a bit weird when seeing you after being approached by cops asking about your general behavior. The carry license in Slovakia is may issue so whatever the people tell the cops may be used to prevent a Slovak from having guns. In the Czech Republic it is shall issue. Cops don't go around asking old women about your behavior and if they were you could appeal such bull**** easily. For Czechs it is criminal background check and misdemeanor check (incl. DUIs, anything violent). Full stop.

    In Slovakia, they have license for home defense (no carry) and self defense concealed carry. Unless there is a price on your head or you are a high ranking banker, forget concealed carry in Slovakia. For Czechs, it is one self defense license that includes concealed carry and which is shall issue. No specific reason needed, just ticking the box "self defense" on the application form.

    In Slovakia, the "exam" means board of a few people who may or may not like you. In the Czech Republic it is a written test, 500 multiple choice questions you know in advance, about 30 on the actual exam. You see the outcome right away and if you think that your exam answer is according to the law while it was not accepted (they check it according to a form) - you can take it to court and win and (this has actually happened; the given issue was changed afterwards).

    I may be wrong about this but I think that Slovaks don't have safe handling test and shooting test like we do in the Czech Republic.

    Also in Slovakia you can forget about having "military style" self-loading rifles. In the Czech Republic you can carry semi-auto AR 15 in a back pack for self defense (as long as you can effectively conceal it). Yeah, the cops will look at you a bit weird when you come asking for the permit to buy, poses and carry such a gun, but it is shall issue and weird look is all they can do.

    Czechs can get full-autos on may-issue basis. Slovaks can't.

    In the Czech Republic, you can fight denial at courts. I suppose you can do it to some extent in Slovakia too, but this is where I think the difference between shall issue and may issue comes into play. It is hard to make your case for something you are not entitled to by law.

    OK, you are entitled to your view of that. We are used to various views. I have met German tourists in Prague saying something along the line that since this was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire, it is basically German city and it should be German once again, and those Slavs here are just on vacation but will need to move back to the steppes sooner or later. Real eye opener to hear that especially in the Prague Jewish Quarter. So lets say it is a new nation state, if you like. I never feel the need to tell those tourists that they are forgetting that when this was the capital of the HRE, Czech was the official language not only in Bohemian Kingdom (unlike German), but was also obligatory for all the princes of HRE (alongside German and Italian), so I won't fight with you on whether my country dates back to 9th century or 1993.

    I will share a funny historical-legal story though. When Czechoslovakia was being divided in 1992 - by the act of parliament instead of act of war like Yugoslavia - the Federal Parliament enacted that neither state shall be the legal successor of the Federation. The first thing the Czech parliament did after dissolution of Czechoslovakia was that it said it is not bound by a resolution taken by a body of a country that doesn't exist any more. And accordingly most international bodies accepted that the Czech Republic is successor to Czechoslovakia while Slovaks had to sign up all anew.

    I don't. I am not hunter and I am not a sport shooter (even though I do have also sport shooting license on top of self defense and collecting, in hopes to find time to do IPSC one day). I shoot for fun and carry for self defense. It may sound funny considering that I live in one of the safest cities in Europe, but hey, that is my right here.

    Are you saying that the situation with the European Firearms Pass didn't change anything for the better? I am listening.

    Of course it did. After all, the European Firearms Directive was enacted in 1991 by the EEC.
    Well, the purpose of the Pass is to make it easier for sport shooters or hunters. Apart from Czech Republic and Estonia (and to some extent Slovakia and Austria) you can forget about CC firearm for self defense. So it is kind of obvious you need to be going to a shooting competition in order to be able to transport firearms for that purpose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
  6. lykoris

    lykoris Member

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    Interesting to find out more on Slovakia, thanks.
    Can you shoot full auto in Czech Republic? If yes is it only on permitted ranges or is it possible on private land? If the latter is there a size requirement?

    Here we can own full auto under a collector's license but cannot fire them, I believe the Swiss can fire full auto one day of the year if they pay a tax of chf 150. Maybe some Swiss members can correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  7. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    You cannot fire anything outside a licensed range unless you are either hunting or defending yourself. Firing anything outside a range is misdemeanor. Any firearm related misdemeanor may lead to loss of license (i.e. loss of all guns). Actually if you are not hunting and you discharge a firearm outside a range (e.g. warning shot), you should report it (legitimate warning shot falls under self defense). This is mostly due to high population density and the fact that the law allows people to pass through any unfenced property, i.e. you can never know when someone just shows up in/or especially behind/ your line of fire. It is sometimes problem also on long shooting ranges that people wander off between the targets. Kind of like if they wanted to win a Darwin Award.

    If you are a private person, you can get full auto permit only for collecting purposes. If you have only collecting license (which is the easiest to get regarding the number of points needed to pass the exam), you can actually have only 3 rounds or the smallest production package of the same ammo. But most people have collecting/sport shooting/self defense all in one, so the ammo is not an issue. I sometimes hear automatic fire on range but it never occurred to me to ask, so I am really not sure whether they have it on collecting license. What I know though is that if you get firearm instructor license (which is not that much more complicated than general gun license) you can get full auto also for the purposes of teaching the use of full auto. Then I guess its use at range should be no problem (there are companies specializing in shooting packages for tourists and as far as I know they offer also full auto). In any case, the law doesn't provide for any special permit for full auto shooting.

    Apart from the permit to own full auto being may issue, the main problem is that you are then required to allow access to police officers to check its safe storage - something they can't do when you have semi autos, or even .50 BMG sniper rifle. Even though the inspections are announced in advance and the cops are very polite about it, I think that nobody wants a cop in their house. So there are not that many legal full autos in civilian population.

    This leads me to another question that just came to my mind. I saw in LGS that full-auto version of CZ 805 BREN costs about double of the semi-auto version ($2000 v $4000). Does anyone with deeper knowledge of guns know whether the technical differences between full auto and semi auto justify such a huge difference in price?

    What country are you from, Lykoris? What are the gun laws there?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  8. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    There is PLENTY to learn about that whole region. It has a long and varied history as the battleground of Europe and the ME. Very few people I know can track the history of the Slovaks without an internet connection. Whatever you learn is liable to change if you hold your breath for a minute. :)

    Again the fact they have remained a cohesive group through all this is a big reason I admire those people like I do. They have been pushed around by so many forces it's literally amazing that they still exist as a recognizable group. And don't think their history isn't mired in controversy. There are competing versions of what has happened over the centuries. Revisionism in history is not a new thing. I've spent some time studying the region and if there's one thing I've learned it's that there is a lot to learn.
     
  9. lykoris

    lykoris Member

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    Luxembourg, sports, hunting and security personnel can apply for license. No concealed carry or use outside ranges.

    No restrictions on acquisitions but everything is licensed from air rifles up to 50bmg has to be only semi if you want to shoot it.
     
  10. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    I studied for a year in Saarbrücken. I loved to take a bus for Saturday or Sunday to Lux and stroll around the town. Very beautiful town indeed!

    I once saw some guy going out of his house to car on the street with a locked gun box. I understand that crime is not a big issue in Lux, but still: one would expect that the primary concern should be for the owner to be able to prevent possible theft, and having it in locked box really doesn't equalize him against a possible thief.

    I once saw some black guy in khaki uniform in front of a palace/ministry with a bullpup. Just once in about 10 times I went by. Lux has army? What are they using?

    Is it standard for your police to be armed or are is Lux more inclined to the British/Norwegian ways?

    Also, what is it with Lux law preventing taking pictures of buildings for the protection of the architect's intellectual property?
     
  11. White Walker

    White Walker Member

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    Snejdarek, I think that the right of people in my country to have pretty much as much ammunition as they want is taken for granted. Most of us here don't think about the restrictions that govern our brother firearms enthusiasts around the world.
    Funny, with all of the ammunition that my wife and I have (we've gotten rid of all of the British .303 along with the Enfield's shown in the photo), we don't bother to go out and shoot any of it off. We have a horse ranch out on the plains of Nebraska where we're certainly allowed to use any of our rifles and pistols to our hearts content, but we really don't. I'm just concerned about upsetting the horses with the loud noise. I'd rather not get them riled up. I pretty much just go out and Cowboy around the ranch during the day and our firearms really don't get used at all anymore except for when I carry something outside while investigating what's upsetting the dogs and horses at night.
    I Would like to set up another 100 yard shooting bench though. We don't hunt anymore around here, but we like to target shoot. My wife used to enjoy hunting quail from horseback because of her knee injury, but now we no longer do that. Just getting old I guess.
    Thanks for your posts of what it's like in your country. Very interesting!

    Here is the old .303 ammo that my wife and I had. We couldn't realistically shoot it all so we just got rid of it.
    Niles2.gif
     
  12. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Just to avoid confusion. One needs a license to get guns and ammo in the CR. Licenses are shall issue. If someone has collecting license ONLY, they may have 3 rds/smallest production package. But most/all people will have collecting AND other type (sport/hunting/self defense), which means no ammo restrictions regarding quantity. For self defense, it is restriction regarding type - only FMJ or soft point.

    But considering the rest of your post I guess you meant primarily the right to shoot where ever you like? Then yes, I agree. But consider that population density in Nebraska is 9/km2, in the CR it is 134/km2. I'd also guess that in Nebraska going beyond a road automatically means trespassing, even if there are no fences?

    I had uncle who left Czechoslovakia following the Soviet sponsored communist coup. He lived and worked part of the year in Switzerland and then used to spend rest of the year in Montana. He really loved it. I can imagine those empty (i.e. without people) great outdoors must be fantastic.
     
  13. White Walker

    White Walker Member

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    There's a lot of open land between here and the Pacific Ocean. A lot of it nobody wants. Most of it is actually without much in the way of development. There's Public land, Govt. land and there's Private land. The private land is fenced if there's livestock on it. There's a lot, (most) of land with no fences on private and public lands. However it's understood that one doesn't trespass without permission of any land owner.
    The public land is open and without fences. The Govt. land is sometimes fenced if there's any agricultural projects going on. Otherwise it's open and without fences and we can just go in with our horses and ride all over for many miles. We can of course ride anywhere on our land and although it's only 50 acres, that's enough for us.
     
  14. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    There's a good bit of open land between you and the Atlantic too. People just aren't as aware of it. The west is almost assumed to be open range. But in southern Ohio where my house is located, people moved out of the area during the Great Depression because there was no way to make a living there. As a result a whole bunch of land reverted to the government for unpaid taxes. The government eventually made that land into a national forest. There's a quarter of a million acres of open land there. Most consider that a small national forest but the thing is there is another national forest not too far away in Kentucky. Together the two forests make up about a million acres. Just by comparison the whole of Slovenia is about 5 million acres. Croatia is about 14 million acres. It should be noted that there are vast areas where clay mines once existed in southern Ohio also. That land was considered to be useless for decades by environ-mentals. It's not that easy to kill mother nature. The land has recovered in a big way and is home to a vast amount of wildlife among other things and in many areas it is not fenced of or even a concern of the people that do still own it. Large paper companies own big parcels of that land expecting it to produce trees for their industry again at some point and that has pretty much happened. We're actually seeing a lot of that land now being reclaimed by various entities and they have put up fences. But for many decades it may as well have been public land. I couldn't begin to tell you how much time I've spent in those areas riding my ATV. Even in southern Ohio it's possible to get miles away from the nearest road. I guess the most remote areas are about 5 miles from civilization. That may not seem like much but keep in mind that the land is broken up in patches of private land and public.

    Then there's West Virginia. Probably most of West Virginia is owned by the super rich families of the UK (Rothschild, etc.). It's a last vestige of colonial rule I guess. It's possible to get back in the mountains there and be 20 miles from the nearest house (AFAIK anyway - you really never know exactly what's out there but it's mostly unoccupied). Large parts of that state have been turned into ATV parks owned by private companies that maintain trails all over the state. One company maintains over 700 miles of trails. And there are countless other trails outside those parks. I know of a trail that starts in Tenn. and runs 500 miles into southern WV. And it's mostly on very remote and mountainous areas.

    So there is a huge amount of open land in the east. No it doesn't compare to the size of the west but it dwarfs many smaller countries. If you like being away from people you'll know why I like being a hillbilly. Just as an example of how things go here there is open hunting in the national forest system near my house (which is connected by forest to the national forest). Most people don't seem to have a clue how wild this part of the world can be. Again it doesn't have the size of the American west but it has a tremendous amount of wildlife and vegetation. I never even mentioned the huge state forests in the area.
     
  15. White Walker

    White Walker Member

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    Cee Zee, I really enjoyed your post! I'm going to have to go there some time soon. Fascinating information! Thanks!
    I saw on TV one time that the gold that is found in (West?) Virginia is almost 24 Carat. Wow.

    Fred
     
  16. vaupet

    vaupet Member

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    Seems great CeeZee, and old clay pits make great ranges, the clay walls are perfect backstops, I once shot in one that was 35 meters deep, 2 km long and 600 metres wide.

    But I would not go there on an ATV (break down and fuel problems) but on horse back. My halflinger takes me anywere I want to go

    Even the German army now uses them again: https://horsesoldier.wordpress.com/2009/04/17/die-gebirgstragtiere-der-bundeswehr/

    They even have special sadles to carry their HK G36
     
  17. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    Thanks Fred. I've been all over the mountains in the region as well as the national forests. From spectacular vistas to old growth forests it is something to see. I was at Tellico before it was anything more than a short trail. I driven to the top of Mt. Rogers when the trees were cut and the top of Mt. Mitchell when a "cloud event" settled in locking the whole region in a fog so thick I had to open my truck door and look down to follow the yellow lines on the Blue Ridge Parkway. And at the time there were no lines where there was an overlook which meant at the very worst places I was on my own essentially. It took 6 hours to drive into Asheville. And I've been out in middle of a huge field coon hunting when a fog dropped on us making it pretty much impossible to tell anything what direction to go. I nearly had the same thing happen in Kansas though and that would have really been tough because they edges of the fields were generally 20 miles apart. I've been lost in the woods at night and had my foot pinned between an ATV and a log too. And I sat through a genuine cloud burst (4" of rain in 45 minutes) sitting on the side of a very steep mountain just wondering when a wall of water was going to wash me over. I've ridden ATV trails that were about 55" wide with a 100' drop on either side. I've driven right though a v-shaped rock formation with my truck with the tires pressed hard against both sides and the truck 15 foot off the bottom. I had to drive up a long staircase formation to get back on the main trail from there. It's a rough and dangerous place and I haven't even mentioned the wild life on 4 legs and on 2 legs. I don't go without a gun but I do go alone or at least I did for many years. I heard a lot of "you shouldn't do that" but I always made it out alive. Heck I even got married on a Lockege Rock way out in the middle of nowhere. I really like being a hillbilly. BTW I don't know the people who made the video showing the easy route to climb Lockege. My wedding party did go that way after my wife's elderly aunt came to the wedding without knowing where we were going. I'm sure she wondered why we didn't invite here but I'm sure she figured it out pretty quick. She made it though.
     
  18. C.R.

    C.R. Member

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    Well the typical knee jerck reaction would be more regulation thats how it usually goes,common sense doesnt apply
     
  19. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    The gun club I belong to is on an old clay mine or at least most of it is. The 500 yard range goes right into a hgh wall but unfortunately they had to shut it down because too many people were shooting much shorter distances and the bullets would skip and go right over the wall even though it's about 100 feet high. It really bummed me out that they shut down that range. I had to move anyway so I don't get to go there now. They are developing a 600 yard range also backed by a high wall.

    Backstops aren't the only thing high walls are good for. I like horses and I've ridden them plenty in my life but give me something with a motor every time. I've never broken down alone mainly because I did maintenance and I kept a fairly new machine to get me way out there. Once my ATV's get older they get retired to become work machines. I've had my problems with horses too BTW. They can and do sometimes get rid of their riders the hard way. I had a quarter horse that headed for a tree limb every time I got her saddled and mounted. I had to duck my head or lose it. And I've had more than one land me on the ground the hard way but that was when I was young and could take it. Give me a motor (no mind of it's own) every time. Plus you can't get a horse to do this (I know this isn't an ATV but I've seen them do pretty much the same thing on another high wall). Here's the view from the top. Notice the overhang:

    So%20Webster%20high%20wall%20photos_07.jpg

    Here's where the stupid part starts. He's actually already flying at this point:

    Thanksgiving%20weekend%20Telegraph%20ride%20_1.jpg

    If you look close you can see the bike apparently half way up a tree on top. BTW that does happen sometimes:

    Thanksgiving%20weekend%20Telegraph%20ride%20_2.jpg

    And here's a closer view of a flying lunatic:

    Thanksgiving%20weekend%20Telegraph%20ride%20_3.jpg

    We're looking at maybe a 70 foot high wall. The bikes leave the ground going up this way at about 35 below the top. They have to do that to fly over the 4 foot overhang.

    Show me a horse that can do that! :)

    BTW I have a gun rack on my ATV too.
     
  20. Armybrat

    Armybrat Member

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    That's interesting to hear about the Czech Republic & the Buckeye state - I always thought of Ohio as being pretty well populated everywhere.

    Cee Zee, no wonder they call y'all "Bucknuts"! :D

    Snejdarek - do many Czech women participate in the shooting sports or hunt? Several of the ladies & girls in my extended family hunt, and some have concealed carry licenses.

    Down here in the Lone Star State, most all the land is privately owned, and the feds own very little. That means almost no public parkland for hunting. Hunters either have to pay for expensive leases, know a landowner, or become one themselves.

    Several members of my family chose the latter, such as my nephew here plinking away off the porch of his weekend "ranchette" near San Saba, Texas:

    3c1253c4d6d8f15bbe204af8d8e754ca153362d.jpg

    He has to take care though, doesn't want hit any of the beef critters he runs on the place. Of course Whitetail deer & feral hogs better look out.

    96f2508482d91166bc50f7cd84f7bf0bc7ddc07.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  21. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    Everyone thinks that including some people that live here but never get more than a few miles from the river unless they're on an interstate. The roads out to those abandoned areas aren't the best because no one lives out there. But it's a great place to ride and a great place to shoot. I've done a lot of both out there.

    Ain't that the truth. It takes a special kind of crazy to do that stuff. They don't start out going up the really big stuff of course. They train people to ride out there. They have a whole series of high walls starting small and moving up to the stuff in the photo. That's probably the worst of it right there but there are tracks all over that wall where people have gone up and on the other side I've seen ATV's go up it. Obviously it isn't as extreme.

    Too many kids have got hurt there to be honest. They have a life flight landing zone they keep clear if that tells you anything. The people are just too crazy doing that stuff really but it shows what can be done. You won't see me flying up those suckers but I know some guys who used to ride some of the worst ATV trails and they were 70 or so the last time I talked to them. I like getting out into the wild more than I like thrill riding.

    That place is wall to wall deer hunters during gun season though. All the people from the cities that have no place to hunt will show up there. Luckily they only allow shotguns because too many rookies do too many dangerous things. They actually made that high wall area into a hunting preserve recently. I think they finally succeeded in keeping out the motorized stuff but I wouldn't swear to it. You can find a lot of paths into a place that big if you try. I used to know all kinds of secret ways in before they shut it down. But it is still possible to hunt there.

    If you want to see where the area is where I used to ride a lot (and live for that matter) it's this general area.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7573385,-82.5817827,20333m/data=!3m1!1e3

    This is just one part of the national forest. If you zoom in you can get a pretty good idea how sparse the population is in most of this area. Just to give you an idea I could start out at the closest spot from my house to the forest and probably ride 50 miles almost in a straight line without seeing more than 10 houses. At least I could when I was riding a few years ago. They constantly change the areas where you can ride. And some of those places are very, very remote. You have houses along the roads but most of the land in between the roads is government owned.
     
  22. lykoris

    lykoris Member

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    Steyr Aug

    Police here are armed, strange to be in a country where they aren't. I did not realize the police in Norway were unarmed.

    Never heard of that law, perhaps somebody pulling your leg :D
     
  23. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    734
    Location:
    Czech Republic, EU
    Slovenia has one of the best national parks in Europe - the Triglav National Park. It has some 200.000 acres. A couple of years ago there was a NATO exercise and a US reconnaissance unit got lost there, leading to a huge search and rescue operation that Slovenes love to tell about to anyone who comes there :D

    To tell you the truth, I consider Slovenia the only country in Europe I would like to move to, despite the lack of CC. If you live in the capital it is 30 minutes drive to huge Alpine mountains and 30 minutes drive to the seaside. Great, amazing nature. People are a bit German-like (cold), but not unfriendly. And it is also extremely safe country. They really, really cannot brew a good beer, but you can buy Czech one there, so one can forgive them for thinking that Laško tastes good.

    Did you say climbing walls? This is the way Czechs do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPZo8VzexU

    http://youtu.be/mi8SlYGt0YM

    We have quite a few very successful female sport shooters. I think one can say that there are many participating in sport shooting. Hunting, on the other hand, is mostly men's thing here.

    Concealed carry probably varies a lot regionally. In some regions nothing ever happens, and that may include also towns with several tens of thousands of people - and I think basically noone carries there. Then there are a couple of regions where carrying is more common in line with higher crime rates. But even what we consider higher crime rate would be probably pretty safe compared to US or UK. Therefore even when it comes to CC it is more about "boys' toys" then some real possibility of being forced to use it in self defense.

    So most people think nothing will happen to them... until something does happen. A shooting instructor told my sister that quite a high percentage of women who are getting CC license were either raped or severely victimized in some other way. Too bad those women didn't get a license before the SHTF. My GF plans on getting CC license in a couple of months, but I am not sure that she will be really carrying. It took me quite some time to teach her to carry at least a pepper spray and a personal alarm. I hope I will be able to convince her to carry at least for ladies' nights out.

    One of female gun clubs is BEAREKA Girls. Check their pictures on Facebook, you might like what you see :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  24. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,297
    I know such things are popular in your part of the world but come on - did you see the flying Kaw? I can show you photos of where they have landed in the tops of trees trying to get up that high wall. I'm talking 30 foot up a tree on top of the high wall. It's too crazy really.

    And there are all sorts of off road type events in this part of the world. I think we invented the sport. I've been in way too deep a few times over the years. Heck at one time I thought I wasn't having fun unless I had to walk out and find someone to come and pull me out or something. :) Here's just some examples of ATV riders tearing up perfectly good equipment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4QuLcMxG40

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=vn4JBhf9yOI&x-yt-cl=84503534

    I was at the trail system in the first video when I got caught in a genuine cloud burst (4" of rain in 45 minutes). What they don't show you on the video is that you're way the heck on top of the mountain where they are. You could roll 1000 feet or more if you go over the side. I was working my way up to the top of the mountain when that rain hit. The second video shows something of what it's like back there when it's serious wet. Only the day I was there that time there was basically white water where there hadn't been any hint of a creek before all rolling off that mountain like Niagra Falls. I was 10 miles from the pavement, 5 miles from anywhere my phone would get a signal and alone. I loved every minute of it. I just picked a spot where I knew the water would break around me and rode it out sitting in one spot. By the time that rain was over my boots were completely full of water (completely) and I had vinyl, briar busting coveralls over top of those boots so all the water had to soak through from my knee down and run down into my boot until they were running over the top. That was sorta weird.

    When I talk in other threads of never going into the woods without a weapon it's because of being in remote places like these. You're on your own out there. I never liked going with other people really because they all wanted to go somewhere different or drive at a different speed. For example I left a group in the local national forest because they were too slow. It was dark and 25 miles back to the truck. I took the route that doesn't even appear on the map and still beat my friends back to the trail head by 20 minutes. Trust me it's no place to go without a gun.
     
  25. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    734
    Location:
    Czech Republic, EU
    The ride on top of the ridge is amazing! Here you must dismount, no driving around woods.

    You need a backbone tube ;) http://youtu.be/9ursLDiSUEo

    We just don't have any such huge remote outdoors. One needs to go to Western Ukraine or Romania to get similar experience in Europe. Of course, no guns...
     
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