Gun Rights Reality.

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Kodiak AK

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I am not sure if this should be in politics or not .What I find interesting is the number of Dems suporting the NRA.:scrutiny:

What American Voters Believe About
Firearm Owners` Rights And Hunting

The highly respected research firm Zogby International has conducted the first installment of its 2004 Zogby Values Poll, surveying 1,200 voters nationwide on issues that included firearms and hunting issues. Working with the Tower Center for Political Studies at Southern Methodist University and the O`Leary Report, Zogby`s questions interestingly examine differences in thinking between people living in the states that voted for George Bush in 2000 (Red states) and Al Gore (Blue states).

Voters were asked: "Do you agree or disagree that American firearm manufacturers who sell a legal product that is not defective should be allowed to be sued if a criminal uses their products in a crime?"

Voters in both Red and Blue states strongly oppose such lawsuits—74% of the former and 72% of the latter. In fact, a majority in every demographic group opposed the lawsuits; the most strongly opposed, at 83%, were current members of the military and their families.

The survey also examined how Americans feel about Right-to-Carry laws, with the pollster asking: "Currently 36 states have laws that allow residents to qualify for a permit to carry a firearm to protect themselves if they pass a background check, if they participate in firearms training and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Do you feel this is a good law or a bad law?"

Voters overwhelming favor these self-protection laws by a margin of 79% to 18%. Right-to-Carry drew better than 70% support in every demographic group, with even non-gun owners indicating their backing by 73% to 23%.

The survey also asked: "Which of the following two statements regarding gun control comes closer to your own opinion? Statement A: There needs to be new and tougher gun control legislation to help in the fight against gun crime; Statement B: There are enough laws on the books. What is needed is better enforcement of current laws regarding gun control."

By a better than two-to-one margin—66% to 31%—voters nationwide agreed with Statement B. Only self-identified liberals called for more laws, by a 53% to 44% margin. Moderates solidly favored better enforcement, 62% to 34%.

Voters were asked: "Do you agree the NRA is right to fight gun control on both the federal and state levels?" NRA`s support stood at 64%, with a party affiliation breakdown showed Democrats siding with NRA 54% to 42% and Republicans 73% to 22%.

Voters were also asked about hunting: "Which of the follow statements comes closer to your opinion? Statement A: Killing wild animals for food or sport is an American tradition and an essential part of wildlife management. Statement B: Hunting is a cruel sport and should be outlawed." Statement A was chosesn by of 92% of gun owners and 73% of non-gun owners.

The survey also addressed wildlife overpopulation, asking: "Some states in America are being overrun with growing populations of deer, bear, or wolves. When this happens, which of the following do you feel is the best option to take? 1) The state should lengthen hunting seasons; 2) Non-lethal methods of control should be used; 3) People should learn to live with wildlife."

Lengthening hunting seasons was the overwhelming response, chosen by 61% of the voters, while only 18% said use non-lethal methods, and 16% opted for coexistence.


http://www.olearyreport.com./
 
the front runners,,,

kerry, dean,,,,all "support" the NRA, kerry claiming to be a lifetime shooter

they all reference the 2nd amendment in terms of hunting only

say they can't understand why anyone would "need" an ak-47 cause you don't hunt game with one of those

AND attack george w because (if theyre telling the truth) he supports the expiration of the AWB

now i'm an independent and as much as i didn't vote for w last time and don't want to vote for him THIS time

them Democrats are making it tough for me to want to vote for any of them either

is paulsen still running?

i wish i was in the audience for one of their debates so's i could jump up and yell,

"THE 2ND AMENDMENT AIN'T ABOUT HUNTING YOU :cuss: !!"

theyre just spouting what they THINK the majority of us want to hear

middle of the roading like always

:banghead:

for those of you who don't know or remember your american history,,,

the hippie peace and flowers movement of the 60's was cut a little short at a place called kent state university in ohio

and those people were unarmed

still want the gov't to control your use and purchase of firearms?
 
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Fishy math:
By a better than two-to-one margin—66% to 31%—voters nationwide agreed with Statement B. Only self-identified liberals called for more laws, by a 53% to 44% margin. Moderates solidly favored better enforcement, 62% to 34%.
How do they get the 66% figure if 53% of the liberals and 34% of the moderates support statement B? :confused:

TC
TFL Survivor
 
My interpretation:


Statement A total: 31%
of that 31%, 53% describe selves as Liberals, 44% other

Statement B Total: 66%
of that 66%, 62% are moderates, 34% other.
 
I think we should do away with "representatives" in this country and pass all laws, etc. via polling the public. That way we have a true democracy instead of this sham that we have now. Look at the numbers. Granted, they only polled 1200 people, but still...the numbers do not represent what our "representatives" think is the best thig for us. We can make our own decisions thank you. We do not need to be coddled and hand-fed. [Stupid government!!!]

GT
 
i find it very annoying,,,

that our supposed top officials/representatives of the constitution misinterpret the 2nd amendment in such a manner,,,

and try to present it as something it wasn't meant to be

especially as it is so clearly written out for even the simplest of minds to understand

i say,,,if we can't depend on them to interpret this small, clear and simple statement as it was meant and written,,,

how must they be doing with the complicated stuff???

and i'm supposed to pick one of these morons to lead us in the "war on terror'?

:barf:

as has been said here many times in the past,,,

"what part of "shall not infringe upon" do they not understand??"

for their benefit, synonyms for infringe:

violate, encroach, trespass, intrude, invade, hinder, intract, invade

seems like this is what theyre up to with their bans,,,doesn't it?

i don't mind requiring background checks and training before allowing one to CCW

it puts more guns in the hands of bonafide good guys and (somewhat) ensures that they can use them

but don't tell me i'm some kind of increased risk due to the outward appearance and functionalityof the instrument i'm using to defend myself,,,

it's not the gov'ts place or right to do so

says the 2nd amendment,,,

they shall not infringe,,,by law

but they do anyway,,,

remember,,,

you place one uninvited foot on my property and you're trespassing

meanwhile our gov't got both their feet in our chicken coops and they are baggin' up our chickens...

:what:
 
i don't mind requiring background checks and training before allowing one to CCW
YOU may not mind it, but what part of the 2A says that the govt may regulate "bearing arms" when they are concealed ????



violate, encroach, trespass, intrude, invade, hinder, intract, invade
Several of those apply to requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
 
i wish i was in the audience for one of their debates so's i could jump up and yell, "THE 2ND AMENDMENT AIN'T ABOUT HUNTING YOU :cuss: !!"

:D Better not do it when Al Franken is around, he'll tackle you and beat ya down!

Seriously, this is why I always tell people to vote libertarian. My sister-in-law is a Democrat and we had a similar discussion recently about voting and she kept on with the "I don't want to waste my vote" garbage that alot of people believe...well I have to say that voting for someone/something you don't believe will do a good job of defending your rights (ALL of them) or whom you believe is the "lesser of 2 evils" IS wasting your vote. If enough people stand up and say "I've had enough of this crap!" and vote their beliefs then we will have a change. But everyone is all into this compromise garbage and keeps voting for lying POS politicians. If everyone that complains about the leadership of the dems and republicans would walk into the booth on election day and vote libertarian we would send a major wakeup call to those that want to be elected in this country and we might even get enough people out there to get some congressional seats and maybe even the presidency.

/end rant
 
well tallpine,,,

i can't argue that, of course,

but if making some idiot wait till he cools down prevents him from shooting his SO cause they just had a big fight and she's leaving him,,,it works for me,

flawed yes, theres no doubt

its always the few who mess it up for the rest

i said i didn't mind, i'll put up with it if it helps to save just one person, it's ok with me

is it constitutionally correct? nope, no arguement

i want to carry from state to state and on planes etc, constitutionally i should be able to do that, that worries me more.

incidentally, i just emailed kerry for the heck of it with my concern that he doesn't understand the second amendment as it is written

i got the usual immediate form letter in return...

P.S. awww, i'd just kick franken's :cuss:

:neener:
 
I think we should do away with "representatives" in this country and pass all laws, etc. via polling the public. That way we have a true democracy instead of this sham that we have now.

Pardon me, but ARE YOU FREAKING CRAZY???!!!

At least 49% of the public is below average intelligence. That means that they only need to get those of average intelligence to vote their way, and they are now in control. You want to talk about bread and circuses? Get ready to trade in your freedoms quickly my friend, because the bread and circuses will be priority numero uno once LA and NY have the ability to tell the rest of us what to do by virtue of their sheer numbers. No thanks partner, I'll keep my representatives.
 
i figured it out,,,

it's the word "bear"

that's where the present day misinterpretation must have begun to rear it's ugly head

e.g.

"the rights of the people to take up arms and shoot bears shall not be infringed upon"

see how easy it was for all them politicians to goof that one up?

i mean if clinton didn't even know he had sex with monica,,,

tell me i'm wrong,,,

:rolleyes:
 
but if making some idiot wait till he cools down prevents him from shooting his SO cause they just had a big fight and she's leaving him,,,it works for me,
What does that have to do with CCW permits ..... :confused:

So this "idiot" who wants to shoot his wife is going to go down to the police station to get a CCW permit so he can legally carry a concealed handgun over to her place to murder her ....?

Your logic escapes me.
 
Follow your logic to its conclusion

280PLUS said:

"but if making some idiot wait till he cools down prevents him from shooting his SO cause they just had a big fight and she's leaving him,,,it works for me,"

The problem with this statement is that waiting periods don't just affect the idiot who wants to kill his SO, but also keep the SO from getting a gun to protect herself from the idiot. How many lives could have been saved by not having waiting periods?


Edited to correct spelling error.
 
i don't mind requiring background checks and training before allowing one to CCW

No offense, but people "not minding" when there is a blatant infringement of their rights is exactly why this country is in the mess it's in.

Freedom means not having to ask permission. Freedom means not having to go through endless hassles. Freedom means not having to earn a "permit."

Maybe you ought to mind.

Wes
 
ok,,,

good points,,,

so they both end up dead,,,

if youve got a better alternative to what we have now,,,i'm all ears

by having people take a firearms course it makes shooting another person more graphic to them, it did me anyways, it may serve as a deterrent in some cases

it also prevents some accidents because i'll tell you, there are some very careless people out there, we've probably all seen them and theyve probably been through a course too,,,which really scares me

again,,,i'm not saying its the greatest answer but what else do we have?

i liken it to cars, cars kill more people than guns

so we make people take a minimum skills drinivg test, once in their lives usually,,,and they pass,,, some even go to driving school,,,but still people die every day

did we save a few lives? maybe...

was it worth the effort?

my opinion is yes

is it perfect?

no
 
if youve got a better alternative to what we have now,,,i'm all ears
Well, abiding by the Constitution, for a start :neener:

280, you are imagining a problem, and then coming up with a non-solution to fix it.

Read what I said before, do I (or anyone else) need a CCW permit to kill somebody ??? Of course not! All I need to do is just stick it in my pants and go shoot them.

So what good is the "firearms course" that I don't take going to do ????

Or do you really thing that someone would go get a CCW permit before murdering their ex-wife ...:confused:


If you want to relate guns and cars (which are the far more dangerous, IMO) then the schools should teach gun safety as a required course, along with driver education and sex education.
 
here we go,,,

:D

if i personally feel that my allowing one of my rights to be infringed upon in a measured manner works for the betterment of the overall society,,,

i will do so, that is my opinion

you may not agree with it but thats ok, right?

if you are a responsible law abiding citizen there is no problem with your getting a "permit" so what is the big deal??

the awb is a friggin' joke, thats why i oppose it,,,it was obviously written by total no nothing about guns at all people, it's ridiculous

i've got a bushy in the safe right now,,,it don't have a bayonet lug so it does not come under the definition of assault rifle?

i do support you can own whatever you want. grenade launchers? i don't care, have fun

but i also support AT LEAST TRYING to prevent felons from gaining arms without "hassles"

and i do support some licensing that requires at least training before someone can get them selves a gun and shoot their eye out,,,

do i support someone who says that you, a law abiding US citizen cannot own whatever kind of firearms you like?

:cuss: NO!!

:D
 
i am 100% all in for firearms education in schools,,,

100%

you wouldnt see near the BS going on that there is now

DID you know NYC eliminated it's rifle program in it's public schools in, i think, 1984 and at that time destroyed hundreds of thousands of $ worth of high quality target rifles?

my high school had a rifle team,,,many years ago, the picture is in my yearbook, AND THEY HAVE GUNS IN THE PICTURE!!!

and maybe "you" don't need a little firearms indoctrination, but theres plenty of others out there who do!
 
p.s.,,,

in my letter i told kerry i wanted an ak-47 in my gunsafe because i heard it was more reliable than an ar-15

but let's not get into THAT old chestnut,,,

:D
 
and i do support some licensing that requires at least training before someone can get them selves a gun and shoot their eye out,,,
Ok, I knew I could fish this one out of you eventually...

So what you are really saying is that not only should "someone" (you know, like you and me and Joe next door) have to get a permit to carry a concealed gun, but should also have to have a license to EVEN purchase a gun.

Excuse me, but are you on the wrong forum ....? :D

Thats sounds like a pretty severe infringement to me, as in:

"You have the right to keep and bear arms, unless we say that you can't"


if you are a responsible law abiding citizen there is no problem with your getting a "permit" so what is the big deal??
The big deal is that it is a :cuss: infringement of my Constitutional (and natural) rights.

Why should I have to pay for something that is already mine?
 
if you are a responsible law abiding citizen there is no problem with your getting a "permit" so what is the big deal??

Considering that THR contains tons of stories about how states like CA, NJ, MA, MD, IL and so on systematically use, abuse, sabotage and obstruct the permit process, I can't believe I heard a member actually say this.

:fire: :fire: :fire:
 
i support firearm safety,,,

and i see very few examples of it in what i read in the "darwinisms" i see here on this forum and what i see and hear in the news

i also support keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and IN the hands of law abiding citizens

you say the present method attempting to do so violates our constitutional and natural rights, you are correct, i believe i've said that already

ive also said that in my thinking it is ok for this to happen to ME because i personally believe it may help the overall society and because it is measured.

i never said anyone should be required to obtain a license to purchase any gun, those are your words,,,

i said we ALL should be required some type of minimal training for safety sake, and yes,,,unfortunately that would require some form of proof that said training had been received,,,want to call it a "license"? ok...

and this would be necessary now because they don't teach firearm safety in school so really, most gun owners these days plunge into the purchase and operation of them with zilch knowledge on the subject and people get hurt and die because of it

meanwhile us educated owners suffer the bad press and consequences of the actions of the uneducated ones

again,,,all just MHO

:D
 
well,,,i live in ct,,,

i never had a problem with getting my permit or any gun that ive wanted, so i am not able to empathize

if YOUR state is obstructive about it you need to work on changing all that, mostly by electing those who support your views and ousting those who don't

e.g. what the :cuss: is ted kennedy still doing in office?

matter of fact, the statie that signed my "license" and me had a long fun talk about guns and shooting he and i agreed that if more cops spent time practicing their shooting skills there would be less dead and wounded cops

you guys are in the wrong states!!

:neener:

i'd prefer to see a federal "license" so once i get that because i'm gun educated and my record is clean i can take my gun anywhere in the U.S. with no problema

the first trick they pulled was to leave it all up to the individual states, nice pandoras box they opened doing that,,,
 
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