The Democratic Plot that Deceives Gun Owners.

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A Seven-Step Blueprint for
Democrats to Promote Responsibility
and Win the Gun Vote


TAKING BACK THE
SECOND AMENDMENT

Overview: The Democrats’ Opportunity on Guns

Gun owners believe that Democrats are anti-gun, anti-Second
Amendment, and do not respect the values of gun owners; however there is a
significant opportunity for the Democratic party to gain gun owner support with a
moderate message that voices support for Second Amendment rights, calls for
the closure of loopholes in our gun laws, and demands vigorous enforcement of
the existing laws on the books.

Democrats suffer from a major voting gap with gun owners in both
congressional and presidential elections. Among Democrats, the conventional
wisdom about how to close this gap is for the party to avoid the gun issue
altogether except in urban and liberal areas. But a new poll prepared for
Americans for Gun Safety shows that gun owners have such strong
preconceptions about where Democrats stand on guns that silence spells certain
defeat for Democrats in so-called “red states” – states that voted for President
Bush in 2000 and, not coincidentally, have gun ownership rates more than 35%
higher than states that went for Gore.

In short, the data shows that in a generic ballot, Democrats can narrow
their deficit among gun owners from twenty-six percentage points to four and
increase their margin of support among non-gun owners from seventeen
percentage points to forty by adopting a moderate, rights and responsibilities set
of policies and messages that emphasizes the need for gun safety while
acknowledging, as most Americans do, that there is also a constitutionally
protected right to bear arms.

The Gun Gap:
Democrats Underperforming, GOP Overperforming Among Gun Owners
Nearly half of the electorate has a gun in the home, and in Southern and
Plains states, about three in five households have at least one firearm in the
home. The significance of this statistic is that gun ownership has become a
predictor of voting behavior. Gun owners tend to vote Republican; non-gun
owners tend to vote Democratic.

For example, in the 2000 presidential election, there was a 31-point gap in
Al Gore’s performance between gun owners and non-gun owners. And the gap
was even wider – 36-points – for congressional Democrats in 2000. It is no
accident that the states that voted for President Bush in 2000 have the highest
gun ownership rates (53% of red state voters had a gun in the home, compared
to 39% of blue state voters). Moreover, 54% of traditionally Democratic voting
union members live in a home with a gun, which gives cause for Democrats to be
concerned about losing more base voters.

The gun gap continues to persist. In a national poll of likely voters
conducted by Penn Schoen & Berland (October 1-6, 2003) for AGS, a generic

Republican candidate for Congress defeats a generic Democrat by ten points
among gun owners, but loses by fourteen points among voters without a gun in
the household. President Bush holds a thirteen-point lead among gun owners,
but trails by sixteen among non-gun owners – a 29-point swing.

However, while it is true that gun owners tend to be more conservative
than non-gun owners, they are not as conservative as their voting behavior would
suggest. For example, 52% of gun owners call themselves pro-life compared to
42% of non-gun owners – a fairly slim margin. 79% of gun owners support
prayer in school, compared to 73% of non-gun owners. 51% of gun owners
attend religious services daily or weekly, compared to 49% of non-gun owners.
And 54% of gun owners describe their political views as liberal or moderate,
compared to 62% of non-gun owners.

This means one of the reasons that gun owners tend to vote for
Republicans is the gun issue itself. Gun owners are only slightly more likely to
be pro-life, slightly more likely to support prayer in school, and no more likely to
attend religious services – cultural issues that can serve as a proxy for voting
behavior. But they are much more likely to vote Republican. Thus Republicans
are over-performing among gun owners, and Democrats are under-performing.

Taking Back the Second Amendment:
Seven Steps Democrats Must Take To Close The Gun Gap

Democrats can close this gun gap and make significant inroads with gun
owners by staking out an aggressive position on guns that reflects both the
majority view of gun owners and non-gun owners, and responsible policy
positions to keep America safe.

This moderate view supports the Second Amendment, new laws like those
designed to close the gun show loophole, the renewal of the ban on assault
weapons, and the strenuous enforcement of existing gun laws. If Democrats
want to close the gun gap, they need to jettison their existing strategy of silence
and embrace these seven steps to improve their performance.

Step 1:
Reject the Party’s Conventional Wisdom on Guns
Conventional wisdom instructs Democrats to avoid the gun issue
altogether, in the hope that presidential and congressional candidates will be
able to get gun owners to focus on other bread and butter issues – like jobs,
health care and education – instead of voting their gun. This strategy is based on
a deeply flawed premise – that if a Democrat is silent on guns, gun owners will
assume that they are pro-gun or be unsure about where the Democrat stands on
the issue and simply ignore the issue when going into the voting booth.

Our polling shows that voters come to the polls with already ingrained
perceptions about where the parties stand on guns. Voters, particularly gun-
owning voters, perceive of Democrats as anti-gun and anti-gun owner. Gun
owners believe that Democrats look down on them, do not respect their values,
and blame them for America’s crime problem.

• When asked which party wants to ban guns, by a margin of 63-20% gun
owners say Democrats (55-18% for non-gun owners).
• When asked which party supports the Second Amendment right to bear
arms, by a margin of 66-15% gun owners say Republicans (54-15% for
non-gun owners).
• When asked which party does not respect gun owners and their values, by
a margin of 59-20% gun owners say Democrats (44-19% for non-gun
owners).
• When asked which party blames law abiding gun owners for the crime
problem, by a margin of 55-19% gun owners say Democrats (39-25% for
non-gun owners).

Taken together this means that the leading strategy employed by
Democrats to win gun owner votes – namely avoiding the gun issue entirely – is
doomed to fail. Voters have already made up their mind where Democrats stand
on guns, and until Democrats redefine the issue in a way that appeals to gun
owning voters, they will be perceived as anti-gun.

Step 2: Own the Second Amendment
Democrats need to be aware and concerned about the near-universal
support for, and interpretation of, the Second Amendment among all voters.
Only 8% of voters believe that the Second Amendment does not protect
an individual’s right to own a gun – a position many gun owning voters feel
belongs to Democrats. 74% take a moderate view of the amendment and
believe that the right allows for restrictions that keep guns out of the hands of
criminals. 14% are absolutists and believe that the right allows for no restrictions
whatsoever.

Voters overwhelmingly support the Second Amendment and believe that it
confers an individual’s right to own firearms. Yet, dangerously for Democrats –
and for organizations that are committed to reducing gun violence – nearly two-
thirds of gun owners and three-fifths of non-gun owners said that the Democrats
are the party that wants to restrict gun rights.

Democrats have to take back the Second Amendment – ending all
national party equivocation on the meaning of the Second Amendment by
inserting strong support for the individual rights interpretation in all national party
documents. They must define the right in a way that makes sense to the vast
majority of voters – as a right that comes with responsibilities for individual
owners and for society to support tough enforcement and closing existing gun
laws loopholes. And they must preface all of their policy pronouncements with
genuine support for the Second Amendment.

Consider the strong support among gun owners for the following
messages from a Democratic candidate:

“I take a back seat to no one in support of Second Amendment rights, but I
also support requiring criminal background checks at gun shows and continuing
the ban on assault weapons.” (Supported by 83% of gun owners)
“Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their
families.” (Supported by 93% of gun owners)
“Our gun rights come with the responsibility to keep them out of the hands
of criminals, terrorists and children.” (Supported by 85% of gun owners)

Step 3:
Redefine the Issue from Gun Control to Gun Safety
Gun control has become a loaded term that leads voters to believe that
the candidate supports the most restrictive laws, including a ban on handguns.
Democrats would be foolish to continue using the term gun control – and to
accept the media’s imposition of such biased and negative terminology on
Democrats – as foolish as a pro-choice organization labeling itself anti-life.
Voters don’t define enforcement of existing gun laws, closing the gun
show loophole or renewing the assault weapons ban as gun control. Neither
should candidates or the Democratic party – nor should they encourage or
tolerate such mislabeling by the national media.

“By a margin of 70-20% (77-13% among gun owners), voters prefer a
Democratic candidate who supports gun safety over a candidate who supports
gun control.”

Step 4: Promise and Deliver on Enforcement of Existing Gun Laws
Voters are right to be frustrated about enforcement: President Bush
correctly assailed the Clinton Administration for failing to enforce the federal gun
laws; yet today, on this Administration’s watch, the enforcement record is still
awful.
• Twenty of the twenty-two major federal gun laws are enforced so
infrequently they might as well not exist.
• This administration is twice as likely to audit a typical taxpayer than
prosecute a criminal who illegally attempts to purchase a gun.
• Roughly 2% of all federal gun crimes are ever prosecuted.
Republicans are vulnerable because they exploited the powerful
enforcement message to score points but then failed to deliver the goods once in
power. Democrats can win a major victory with gun owners and have a
significant impact on reducing gun violence by seizing the initiative on
enforcement, demanding vigorous enforcement of existing laws, and making
good on their promise.

The enforcement issue has always been a powerful message used by the
right as an argument against new gun safety laws. It doesn’t have to be that
way. Gun owning voters prefer a candidate who is for vigorous enforcement and
commonsense gun laws over only enforcement.

“Only 578 out of the 136,000 people who lied on the criminal background
check form that is required to buy a gun were prosecuted. We need to get
serious and crack down on people who try to buy guns illegally.” (Supported by
88% of gun owners).

Step 5: Promote Centrist Gun Policies
The problem that Democrats have on the gun issue has far less to do with
the typical policies they espouse than the rhetoric they employ. That is because
nearly all gun safety laws are very popular across the board. By a 65-31%
margin, voters favor new gun safety laws in general. Even among gun owners,

56% support new laws. When particular gun safety measures are polled, they
are invariably popular.
• By a margin of 92-7%, voters support improving the background check
system to make instant checks faster and more accurate (90-9% among
gun owners).
• By a margin of 90-9%, voters support closing the gun show loophole (85-
13% among gun owners, and 83-16% among those who have attended
gun shows!).
• By a margin of 86-12%, voters support making gun trafficking a crime as
severe as drug trafficking (85-15% among gun owners).
• By a margin of 79-21%, voters support background checks for all firearm
purchases (69-30% among gun owners).
• By a margin of 77-21%, voters support renewing the assault weapons ban
(66-32% among gun owners).

Even the most liberal proposal, federally registering all firearms (which
AGS opposes), is supported by a margin of 67-30%, though it is opposed by gun
owners (44-53%). By far the most unpopular gun measure is one supported
mostly by Republicans to make it easier for people to carry concealed firearms
(43-54%), though it is strongly supported by gun owners (64-35%).

Moreover, for every one of these proposed laws, voters overwhelmingly
believe that a Democrat can support each measure and still be a strong
supporter of the Second Amendment. In other words, the large block of voters
who feel that the Second Amendment both preserves rights and allows for
restrictions, also believes that these measures fall within the restrictions allowed
under the Constitution. When asked on each of these proposals whether a
Democrat could support it and “still be a strong supporter of the Second
Amendment right to own a gun,” the number saying yes to each measure is as
follows:

• Improving the background check system (83% all, 89% gun owners)
• Closing gun show loophole (82% all, 80% gun owners)
• Renewing assault weapons ban (71% all, 67% gun owners)
Because gun safety laws like closing the gun show loophole, renewing the
assault weapons ban, improving the instant check, and enforcing the laws on the
books are both important and popular; Democrats cannot afford to be timid in
staking out their centrist positions – and standing up for those positions as a
strong backer of the Second Amendment.

Finally, don’t be shy to marry your positions to those of prominent
Republicans who gun owners trust with their rights. Second Amendment stalwart
President Bush supports renewing the ban on assault weapons ban and gun
rights supporter John McCain has a bill to close the gun show loophole.

Step 6: Take Your Message Directly to Gun Owners – Don’t Let Your
Opponent Define You.

The best way for candidates to connect to voters on guns is to talk to them
repeatedly. Candidates should respect and appeal to local gun values with the
confidence that local gun owners do want to close the gun show loophole and
renew the assault weapons ban.

It’s critical that Democrats recognize that only an aggressive outreach
strategy to gun owners will ensure that your opponents message about your gun
record does not define your candidacy. Gun owners are not a monolithic voting
block – and they will only vote their gun if theybelieve that the Democrat is out to
take away their gun rights, a long-perpetuated myth about national Democrats.
Democrats are underperforming among gun owners because they have
been defined by others on guns. Whether it is talking about personal
experiences with firearms and hunting, explicitly talking about the gun issue, or
forming a sportsmen for candidate Jones committee – gun owners are a voting
block that can be persuaded to vote Democratic.

“I will bring our local gun values to Washington. That means respecting
the right to own a gun and making sure our gun laws do not leave loopholes
open that help criminals, terrorists or illegal aliens get guns.” (Supported by 86%
of gun owners).

“I am pro-hunter because I believe in preserving the environment to
protect fish and wildlife. Everyday America loses 365 acres of pristine land to
development. We have to preserve these lands or hunting will cease to exist in
America.” (Supported by 78% of gun owners)

Step 7: Implement Your Gun Plan and Watch the Gun Votes Roll In
Gun owners are ready to support Democratic candidates that support
sensible gun safety laws, vigorous enforcement and Second Amendment rights.
That is because a plurality of gun owners define themselves as moderate and
would be receptive to supporting a Democrat if that candidate was moderate on
the gun issue.

Gun owners define this moderate position on guns using three yardsticks:

• Support for the Second Amendment
• Closing Gun Law Loopholes
• Vigorously Enforcing the Gun Laws on the Books

In a generic ballot, 42% said they would vote for a Democrat versus 45%
for a Republican who supports Second Amendment gun rights (30-56% among
gun owners). When the Democrat is defined as one “who supports gun control”
the generic ballot result stayed exactly the same, 42-45% (support among gun
owners dropped two points and among non-gun owners increased two points).
When the Democrat is defined as one “who supports Second Amendment
gun rights, closing some gun law loopholes, and enforcing the laws on the
books,” support for the Democrat increased to 57-32% over the same Republican
(44-48% among gun owners). Even the support from non-gun owners increased
from 52% to 68%.

When gun support for closing gun law loopholes is taken out of the
equation, and the Democrat is defined as one “who supports Second
Amendment gun rights and enforcing the laws on the books,” support for the
Democrat drops to 46-38% among all voters and even drops significantly for gun
owners to 36-53%.

In fact, the Democrat who supports gun rights, closing gun law
loopholes, and vigorous enforcement of existing laws outperforms any
other Democrat against the generic Republican among gun owners, non-
gun owners, southerners, midwesterners, independents, liberals,
moderates, and conservatives.

Background:
Why AGS Has Prepared A Blueprint For Democrats

Historically, the Democratic Party has been the more active party on
issues concerning gun safety. But in recent years, the prevailing wisdom has
been that the gun issue has hurt Democrats, possibly costing them the 2000
presidential election and control of the House and Senate. Whether this is true
or not, the conventional wisdom has made it markedly more difficult to pass
effective legislation to close gun law loopholes and to enforce the laws on the
books to keep America safe. If this perception is not changed, the future of
commonsense gun laws is in jeopardy.

Americans for Gun Safety (AGS) has worked extensively to build
bipartisan support for federal gun legislation including closing the gun show
loophole and fixing the instant background check system. We believe that this
issue does not have to be partisan, and that there are many common-sense
solutions that respect gun rights and promote solid gun policy – solutions that
both parties should be able to embrace. Moreover, we have offered to assist the
GOP in addressing their gun vulnerabilities, specifically on gun shows and the
renewal of the assault weapons ban, yet to date, many in the GOP though not all remain opposed to what AGS, and most voters, consider sensible gun legislation.

We hope that situation will change and Republican leadership will move to the
center on issues like gun shows and the assault weapons ban.
Because Democrats are currently the party most likely to take the
necessary steps to ensure a reduction in gun crime, AGS drafted this blueprint to
help Democrats perform better among gun owners while maintaining and
promoting the Party principle of supporting commonsense gun safety laws. It is
often said that good policy is good politics. But in the case of the polarized gun
issue, politics has too often stood in the way of good policy. We believe that this
blueprint will encourage the Democratic Party to both actively promote sensible
gun safety policies and allow them to make headway with gun owners.
 
Because of text limitation, the above was taken from the AGS's PDF found here:


http://www.americansforgunsafety.com/b_print.pdf

I convereted it to TEXT to display here because many people do not download or view PDF's.


Many gun owners on THR have already been suckered by STAGE 1 of this plan, which was seen in the 2006 midterm elections where Democrats used creative and very careful language to appear totally pro-RKBA while leaving the window open for gun control support. Note, that none of the Democrats in 2006 specifically pledged to vote against gun control, they only said they were pro-RKBA, which is meaningless since Schumer says that too.

Note that a number of the so-called "pro-gun" Democrats elected were HAND selected to run by Chuck Schumer, a virulently anti-gun bigot.


A lot of the suggested stragetic quotes in that PDF were used, slightly modified by the new Democrats. Statements like:

“Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their
families.”

“Our gun rights come with the responsibility to keep them out of the hands
of criminals, terrorists and children.”



Stuff like that made thousands of gun owners stay home since they didn't fear the Democratic candidate; however, these statements do not, absolutely DO NOT mean that they are pro-RKBA from a position that would satisfy even the more moderate gun owners and opinions found on THR.


A lot of what's in that AGS strategy guide has to do with a recent thread I started that discusses the use of language found here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=250306

As you can see, they are already morphing their anti-second amendment movement into a "gun safety" platform that seeks to strip you of your rights. This has been discussed in the past, as we've had many threads about AGS when they formed. But you can start seeing the impact of their new strategy in the recent elections, and it will only get worse if you people don't wise up.
 
Not that I listen to Democrats much (except when I feel my blood pressure is too low), right at the point where they started in on the "assault weapon" crap, I just stopped reading. There is no way I will ever support anyone who wants to reinstate that awful piece of garbage legislation.
 
It's not what they support, as we all (or most of us) already know they are gun-grabbing scum. It is all about how they are repackaging gun grabbery for the next decade which should be addressed.


They already won round 1 in 2006 with this clever rhetoric.
 
Many gun owners on THR have already been suckered by STAGE 1 of this plan, which was seen in the 2006 midterm elections where Democrats used creative and very careful language to appear totally pro-RKBA while leaving the window open for gun control support.

Your wrong.
Nobody got suckered. Gun owners know where the anti-gun legislation comes from.
I don't know one person who either didn't vote or voted Democrat because the Democrats were pushing gun friendlier attitudes.

The Dems won control because people are tired of the puppet controlled Bush leadership that continues to ignore the will of the people, the errosion of liberties and domestic issues in this country all in the name of winning in Iraq to control a source of oil.

Is it vital to our economy to have a secure source of oil? Yes.
But at least level with the people and let them know why you are doing what you are.
And inturn promote domesticaly alternative fuel sources other than ethanol which is just a farmers handout.
There is not enough land in this country to produce the amount of corn needed and it takes more than a gallon of oil to turn corn into a gallon of ethanol.

How do I know this?
I'm an EVC who's name appears on NRA magazines to call during election times in two of the largest counties in Florida.

The amount of phones calls I recieved this past September and October were clearly about disgusted people who have put the gun issue on the back burner.

If you want to blame someone, blame the Republican Rino leadership.
 
None of those non-RKBA topics will change at all under Democratic control. I guess 6 years of media Bush and GOP bashing has taken it's toll.


Too bad we can't discuss the RKBA here without talking about Ethanol.
 
You made a statement the dems won cause of gun owners being duped.

I countered your statement by expressing what I heard in my phone conversations with NRA voting gun owners.

These aren't stupid people who watch the 6 o'clock news or Fox news and make up their mind after watching a bunch of talking heads.

These are intelligent individuals who understand that where the current administration is going on all issues and not just gun issues, is wrong.

Because one disagrees with the administration, its called Bush bashing.
How about we call them independent thinkers who can see and hear whats going on and able to make up their own minds after pondering all the issues.

Narrow minded thinking gets you narrow minded results.
 
Sometimes gun owners remind me of the pro-life, single issue voters I know. If the Republican candidate doesn't support their beliefs 100%, they stay home on election day instead of accepting that a moderate Republican is at least a bit less likely to further erode their gun rights than a party-obedient Democrat. I have pro-life friends who sit out elections because the Democrat is for abortion on demand and the Republican is for limited choice. I have tried to convince them that they need to settle for the lesser of evils and not self righteously wait for the perfect candidate. Many on this forum seem to have the same attitude, since Bush and his friends are not pro-concealed carry they think that the Republicans are no better than Schumer/Clinton/Feinstein etc. and they fail to vigorously oppose these anti-gun fanatics. As gun owners, if we don't wake up and stop dreaming of Libertarian victories (not likely in my lifetime!) and get behind those identified by the NRA as more 2nd Amendment friendly, we will inexorably be reduced to a fringe element with no influence on the political process.
 
"Renewing assault weapons ban (71% all, 67% gun owners)"

That part bothers me if its true. I realize THR is kind of one end of the spectrum, but I thought that the AWB was generally disliked. Is this a product of the demographic of gun owners who possibly hunt, or shoot trap only and feel their sports are safe? Just wondering.
 
I'm going to have to disagree with feedthehogs. IMO, the majority of American voters are easily swayed by the latest soundbyte , news story, or endless repetition of the same talking points. A lot of voters are lazy, and they DO get their opinions from talking heads rather than basing their positions on any kind of core values. Honestly, as a nation we get what we deserve politican-wise. We keep electing the same snakes or a slightly modified but similar species.

The Democratic party sucks, and the GOP hasn't been much better lately.

Hell, this morning on the Today show, Chuck Schumer came right out and said he wanted bigger government and that Americans will go for it. He said that in the '80s, people *bought into* the Reagan philosophy on small government and are now ready for a change. Ugh.

Look for gun control measures to be passed with regularity. You have a Dem majority and quite a few RINOs that will vote right along with their donkey buddies. President Bush's veto pen is mighty dusty too.

Business as usual. :banghead:
 
So far as I can tell, this is an issue group not directly affiliated with the Democratic Party and/or a single one of the pro-gun Democratic winners.

Yet it's a "Democratic plot" - weird, huh?
 
"Renewing assault weapons ban (71% all, 67% gun owners)"

That part bothers me if its true. I realize THR is kind of one end of the spectrum, but I thought that the AWB was generally disliked. Is this a product of the demographic of gun owners who possibly hunt, or shoot trap only and feel their sports are safe? Just wondering.
1. NEVER, EVER believe anything an anti-gunners says on face value. They are virtually all pathological liars.

2. Anti-gunners are so wrapped up in wishful thinking that they remind me of the Japanese in WWII. New Guinea campaign can't proceed without a road across the Own Stanley Mountains? No problem, PRETEND there's one. Can't pass an AWB unless ***NRA*** members want one? PRETEND they do. If you have to, fake up a pretend "gunowners" organization that wants to ban guns. We're on our SECOND one of those now.

3. Anti-gun Republicans hurt Republicans badly in the elections. The outgoing Republican governor of Ohio was a corrupt, despicable anti-gunner. His taint hurt Ken Blackwell, the Republican candidate. Ted Strickland, the avowedly pro-gun Democrat candidate took every advantage of this. A LOT of gunowners refused to vote for Mike DeWine under ANY circumstances.

I'm pretty much of a single issue voter any more. If Strickland keeps his word about guns and isn't the sort of ninny that Taft was, I'll vote for him next time around. Republicans who badger me to vote for anti-gun Republicans, seem to think that I should be willing to give up my 2nd Amendment rights in the name of taking away somebody else's abortion rights. Not gonna happen.
 
Wow. This is the exposure of pure evil. :fire: Lying, deceit, treachery.

They must think the people are really stupid. Unfortunatly, they are right about that often enough.
 
• By a margin of 77-21%, voters support renewing the assault weapons ban
(66-32% among gun owners).

Even the most liberal proposal, federally registering all firearms (which
AGS opposes), is supported by a margin of 67-30%, though it is opposed by gun
owners (44-53%). By far the most unpopular gun measure is one supported
mostly by Republicans to make it easier for people to carry concealed firearms
(43-54%), though it is strongly supported by gun owners (64-35%).

A rattle snake tells me he is kinder and Gentler now, then he bites me on the ass and tells me he is my friend. Excuse me if I dont believe him
 
-------quote--------
By a margin of 77-21%, voters support renewing the assault weapons ban
(66-32% among gun owners).
--------------------

I think this just goes to show how brilliant a propaganda move the AWB was. Even gun owners are fooled by it.

If the question was reworded to say "Do you support a federal ban on semiautomatic rifles with interchangeable magazines?" almost no gun owners would go for it.

The genius of the AWB is that hardly anyone knows what an "assault weapon" actually is.

I agree that from a gun rights purist point of view, we should really be supporting the ownership of actual assault rifles as well. However, the reality is that we need to win a lot of hearts and minds before we have a majority of gun rights purists in the electorate.

At this point, we as gun rights purists are a very small minority. Similarly, the "total gun ban" purists are a very small minority. Whichever side is able to win over the mass of people in the middle ground is the side that's going to win. This document from the AGS is the Democrats' and gun-ban people's attempt to do exactly that - to win over the 'moderates.' If they are successful, they will do a lot of damage to our rights.

Unfortunately, it seems very few politically active gun owners recognize the need to win over the middle ground people. Anything less than 100% ideological purity is seen as a "compromise" and "frittering our rights away."
 
Step 2: Own the Second Amendment
Democrats need to be aware and concerned about the near-universal
support for, and interpretation of, the Second Amendment among all voters.
Only 8% of voters believe that the Second Amendment does not protect
an individual’s right to own a gun – a position many gun owning voters feel
belongs to Democrats. 74% take a moderate view of the amendment and
believe that the right allows for restrictions that keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 14% are absolutists and believe that the right allows for no restrictions whatsoever.

I don't doubt the numbers. This only proves that 82% of the people either a)don't know the Constitution, b) don't understand it, c) don't care d) don't understand history, e) are anti-liberty/communist/socialist, or f) all of the above.

This is why the Founders DID NOT create a DEMOCRACY. :cuss:

They also intended that those who took an oath to uphold the constitution would protect the rights of the minority from the usurpation of the majority.
 
Yet more patronizing condescension from people who are arguably clueless on the topic.

There were THR members who stumped for the Dems by repeatedly beating two (arguably stupid) points:

1) That Bush's "support" of the AW ban showed that the Republicans were more anti-gun than the Democrats.

2) That the Democrats had learned their lesson, and would stay away from the gun issue.

Yet here I sit, shortly after the election, and now that my state's congressmembers are mostly wearing blue neckties, there are already two anti-gun proposals in committee. Discussions documenting similar proposals in other states are all over L&P.

Proposals like those of AGS are based on nothing more than getting politicians to adopt a posture based on polling data, in the hope of taking office. I find that to be cold comfort.
 
WOW, thanks for accusing me of thinking that people are stupid! Great argument. :rolleyes:


Anyway, read the strategy. They are using pro-RKBA proclamations, something they haven't really done in the last 10 years to get a lot of gun-voters to feel OK with putting the issue on the back burner.

Did gun owners buy it? YES THEY DID!!! Please use the search feature and read most of 2006. The ones more inclined to vote Democrat surely did.

These are the folks that have been voting pro-RKBA, but always wished and longed for the Democrats to at least drop the issue of gun control or not be as hostile to gun rights. Well, the 2006 campaign convinced them of that.


Many members of THR were quite satisfied with voting for a Democrat because they made AGS style pro-RKBA statements that are meaningless.


Sorry, but I don't trust candidates chosen by Schumer. I guess time will tell pretty soon whether or not that was such a good idea. We'll see exactly how pro-RKBA these people are.


And that doesn't even address the saboteurs who since the election have pretty much disappeared. Jee, where's all the daily anti-GOP, anti-Bush rhetoric packaged as ultra-conservatism or libertarianism? Yeah.


Call ME stupid if you like. But I'm not crazy.
 
What scares me the most is the generally positive reception to the AWB... If that statistic is backed by fact, then I don't know if I will ever get the chance to buy half the guns on my wishlist... :fire:
 
That stat is BS.


What is of conern is this new kinder-gentler Democratic Party that is staunchly pro Second Amendment, but in fine print supports some very minor "sensible" gun laws....
 
Actually, I believe the stat on support for the AWB among gun owners. Remember that "gun owner" includes lots of people who are not gun enthusiasts, don't belong to THR or shooting clubs, etc. Many of them have grandpa's shotgun in the closet, or a .38 revolver that has sat in a drawer for decades, but they don't really like it. Many others are hunters who shoot their firearms once or twice a year but don't really like "guns."

If you hang out at THR, or belong to a gun club, or shoot competitively, you are interacting with a small subset of the entire population of "gun owners." Don't let your limited view mislead you into thinking that everyone who has a gun in the house is on our side. I personally know several guys who are avid hunters, but are rabidly anti-gun.

And before someone jumps on me and argues, consider how it matters. If I'm wrong, you have little to worry about it. If I'm right, though, then we have a huge problem, in that support for the "scary looking rifles" ban is much broader and deeper that you thought, and there is a real possibility it will come back. After all, Bush said that if Congress had renewed it, he would have signed it. We now have a Democrat-controlled Congress, and may well also have a Democrat in the White House two years from now. Unless we work very hard starting today, it is almost certain that the AWB will be back in the next 1-3 years.
 
yup...

...good shot there DTOM ;)

Absolutely the best illustration of what's been going on and where they're headed...

...just like the Terminator... they will never, ever stop...
They are getting more sophisticated at clothing the rhetoric in sheep talk, and much better at camoflauge...They've been observing and reporting, and they have an incredible network in place...
Excellent on the take-up there DTOM, well done...
 
WOW, thanks for accusing me of thinking that people are stupid! Great argument.

I fail to see where I accused you of anything.

As a libertarian, I am well and bloody aware of the GOP's lukewarm stance on RKBA, as well as all of their other idiotic plays at diminishing civil rights during the last 6 years or so.
 
WOW, thanks for accusing me of thinking that people are stupid! Great argument.
And my comments are that you have revealed the pure evil that is their plan. It [their evil plan] has been and is working because so many are uninformed and don't care.
 
Unfortunately for all of us the Democratic party leadership refined this 7 step proposal to just 3 steps.

3, 4 & 5.

3 - It's not gun control, it's gun safety. It's a "common sense safety measure". This isn't an attempt to infringe the 2nd Amendment. And it's always followed by a "but..."

4 - Enforce all existing gun laws... Cripes, there's 20 THOUSAND PLUS! NOBODY IN THE COUNTRY EVEN KNOWS THEM ALL!

5 - By tailoring the definition of the word "centrist" to mean: In the middle between total firearms confiscation and imprisonment of all current gun owners on the left and complete eradication of all handguns, full registration of any other gun, no more than 6 shot capacity, no bayonets, lugs, silencers, pistol grips, multiple projectile firearms, transfer tax of $200 on all ammunition(per round) and mandatory storage at a licensed firearm club - on the right, the centrist view now means to the Democratic leadership basically the status quo - keep introducing incremental restrictions with the ultimate goal being a completely disarmed populace that can no longer resist.

They realized they didn't need to be "honest" about supporting the 2nd Amendment, only say what needed to be said to get elected.
 
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