Gun safe... electronic or mechanical lock?

[Diggler]

OK, this may sound stupid, but I'm thinking about getting a gun safe after Christmas and am leaning towards getting an old-fashioned tumbler lock instead of an electronic one. Part of it is reliability, but there is the thought in my head that says that IF there would ever be an EMP caused by any type of nuclear blast or whatever reason, it would fry the electronic lock and there I'd be with the SHTF and ALL of my weapons would be safely locked up and completely inaccessible just when they would be needed the most.

Should I ignore this not-gonna-happen scenario and just get the electronic lock because it's quicker to open?

 

[DigMe]

Get a traditional vault with mechanical lock for long-term storage of your collection. Then get a fast access vault for one or two ready pieces.

brad cook

 

[Graystar]

Why must you open the safe quickly? What's wrong with the gun at your side?

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I'm not a lock smith, only sharing my limited knowledge here.

I have the tumbler style locks. They can also fail (unlikely though) and are slower to get into. Very hard/impossible to get into in the dark.

The military has gone to an odd electronic dial thing, generates power for itself with a few turns. They have had problems and are rather expensive. I know of at least one safe that had to be drilled due to lock failure within 6 months!

I have also heard that the electronic locks can be defeated by other means. Not sure about the truth to that though.

The electronic locks are real easy and much faster. Just depends on your priority and trust in them. I keep a defense weapon out of the safe so the speed/night issue isn't that big a deal to me.

As for an EMF burst taking out your electronic lock I suppose that is possible. However, that would be a lesser worry to me.

 

[Highland Ranger]

We've done this a few times, here is the one from last week: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=115503

(hard to search on I guess because of the different terminology, touchpad, electronic etc.)

 

[Diggler]

I'd like to open the safe quickly because IF I have enough time I'd rather rely on a 12 ga. for home defense rather than my 1911. Kids in the house so I can't keep them scattered through the house like Easter eggs...

I have one of the GunVaults but it is on my wife's side of the bed.

 

[sturmruger]

I hate tumbler locks!! When I finally get my safe(or RSC to some) I am planning on getting an electronic keypad.

 

[GARY SMITH]

I alway wondered how you would open a electronic touch pad safe if someone hit the keyboard with a object and the keyboard stopped working.

 

[Preacherman]

Many electronic locks can be easily opened with a 9v. battery - do a search and you'll find some lengthy discussions on the topic. For security reasons, I've chosen to stay with the good old-fashioned tumbler lock. Of course, I also keep a couple of quick-access firearms in my bedroom, in a security cabinet - easier to steal, but the bulk of my collection is well protected.

 

[DT Guy]

Get a Simplex lock-opens in about 2 seconds, and about impossible for a kid to get into. Can't be opened with a 9 volt, and defauts to 'locked' if attacked.

I think the best are the ones sold as the 'handgun box'-I have one that's the sturdiest small gun box I've ever seen.

Larry

Edited to add link:
Handgun Box

 

[DigMe]

I alway wondered how you would open a electronic touch pad safe if someone hit the keyboard with a object and the keyboard stopped working.

C'mon man...haven't you seen the movies?! That only works in the good guys favor. If you're going through a door with an electronic lock and you don't want someone to follow then shoot or smack the lock. If you get to a locked door and can't get through then shoot or smack the lock.

Reference: Star Wars, Buck Rogers and every other movie or TV show featuring electronic locks.



brad cook

 

[cpileri]

my recent buying experience

OK, I recently bought 3 safes for various reasons. i went with 2 key locked and one dial combination. here's why and my take on them.

Main reason for not getting electronic was fear of failure. Simple as that. The electronics or even a dial lock would have added over 100 lbs to the mechanism in this particular case which would have been a plus. But the difference in cost was almost double for a dial or electric. That poushed me towards the keys.
The keys are a double lock, hidden access, system. Not too quick but fairly easy to get to. because you can't see the keyhole even in the daytime as it is hidden, doing it in the dark would be no different.

The combo dial is a pain. It is VERY secure, which makes it a pain in my bucket. It takes me like forever to get the multiple twists and turns 'just right' so i can flip the lever. It will for sure keep the kids out, but nothing i may need in a hurry is going in there! But it IS secure as far as dial locks go.
I know the combination (well, not by heart; but i can get it) and it STILL takes me awhile.

There ya go.

C-

 

[FourFive]

Preacherman Hi! Do you know what a EPROM is? (erasable programable read only memory) chip. That means that what ever current electronic lock your going to get has this. Simply means that if your 9volt battery dies, or if you replace it, the lock will remember your last combination! NO ONE CAN GET IN THAT WAY!!!!!!

 

[sm]

Mechanical.

FWIW the most secure safe I ever used, had neither.

Instead Three special keys, each kept by Three separate persons, we each had to be present to open safe .

 

[RKCheung]

Electronic locks often have mechanical backup like a key. So if for some reason your electronic lock failed (post-EMP), you could find your well secured/hidden key and open up the safe.

As for quick-access, you would definitely be better with an electronic with the caveat that the beeping sounds may alert an intruder of your location. An easy fix for this for both mechanical and electronic locks is to unlock the safe when you are in the room.

 

[DT Guy]

There isn't anything faster than a Simplex...and if you want to, you can store keys to your other lockers in the safe with the Simplex, and then you're pretty darned kid-proof.

I would NEVER rely on 'hiding' something from young children, BTW. Just think about all your parents stuff you found when you were little


Larry

 

[Kamicosmos]

I went with a mechanical combo lock. I also hunted around forever to find a safe that also had internal hinges and bolts in all sides of the door. I managed to find one for a great price, but I had to sacrifice fireproofing. I would have liked a quick access key or something too, but I'm pretty fast with the combo lock.

The electronic locks I'd be worried about in two cases. If you do have a fire, that pad will melt. Not all of the electronic safes have a key or combo backup, so that would be an issue, and at the very least, you won't be able to get into the safe immediately after a fire like you should be able to with a mechanical lock. Also, even with an eprom chip, once the battery dies, it's just a matter of a few days or less before the onboard button cell battery for the eprom dies, and you're outta luck. Again, if you have a mechanical backup, no problem...

And, I have to admit, a Safe is supposed to have the big fancy dial combo with the multi-handled wheel on it! I always have a vision of either old westerns or that Price is Right SafeCracker game when I open my safe.

*spinspinspinspinClickspinspinspinClickspinspinClick* Kerchunk as the wheel turns, that metalic Sword-being-drawn-from-scabbard sound as the bolts slide out of the frame....Classic!

 

[JPM70535]

When I was in the market for a safe, I wanted one with locking bolts on all 4 sides of the door, and with internal hinges just for a ittle more security. Found 1 for a reasonable price. The only problem was that it had an electronic key pad. It also had a backup key for use when the key pad malfunctioned. I hid the key and as long as I remember where I hid it everything will be fine.

BTW, the safe is a Sentry professional with 12 active locking bolts. Not bad for $500.

 

[dinosaur]

I got a good deal on a Liberty Harley Davidson pistol safe. The electronic lock failed after about 2 months. Fortunately it was open when it failed. Liberty did back it up 100% sending a locksmith out and changing over to a dial no charge. I had the combination matched to my other safe and it's good to go. I'll never go to an electronic lock again.

 

[Grey54956]

If you're worried about reliability go with the dial. If you want convenience, go electronic. However, a large safe is a more-secure storage device. They are to protect the contents from fire, looting, and simple burglary. If a pack of hoodlum kids breaks into your house, they probably won't manage to get into the safe regardless of a dial or electronic lock. However, if a "professional" burglar comes in, intent on getting into the safe, they will get into the safe. It may take them a little while, but they will crack it.

As an engineer, I am willing to bet that if I knew you had a safe, and if I wanted in on it, I could probably defeat any typical home safe in about 10 minutes. I would just bring the right tools for the job. You can't defend against someone who knows about the safe and is intent on getting access to it.

These things are for secure, long-term storage. You're home defense rig probably shouldn't be in this safe, unless you are on vacation for an extended period. There are a number of smaller, quick opening boxes availale for this reason.

 

[FourFive]

I agree with Grey 54956, that no matter what you spend for a "gun safe", the pro will get in! Kamicosmos, a small correction, there is no " onboard button cell battery" backup for the eprom chip. It is like the memory card for your digital camera. Requires no power for it's memory until you delete it. You can leave the safe for 10 years, and the battery will die, and just stick a new one in and it will still remember your combo, unless of course, there was a atomic blast. 45

 

[0007]

I occationally have to open locked safes as part of my job. I doubt that engineer Grey could do it without lot of noise or heat and light in ten minutes. That said, an S&G 8500 series combination lock would be my choice on a safe. It can always be set to a one digit combination for fast entry. Remember a lock will only keep an honest man honest. (For the record my best time drilling a lock-out on a vault with an S&G was 2 1/2 hours including replacing the old lock - but I did make a lot of noise, heh, heh.)

 

[CB900F]

Fella's

I do the safe thing for a living. I have some comments. Kamicosmos, you better hope & pray that door never needs adjustments. Internal hinges are a marketing spoof that pays negative dividends. Any container that has external hinges & a hinge side positive mechanical retention system, be it active or passive bolts or interlocking leaf, is protected from entry by cutting the hinges. Only fools & five year olds attempt to enter a safe that way.

On to the Hamilton XO series current generating lock used by the government for field safes. I keep an XO-9 in stock, you can buy it for $1,200.00. We had to drill one this past week. I'll state as an absolute fact that if you don't know what you are doing with one of those, and don't have the best opening equipment, you are NOT going to have any joy - at all. Properly installed & used, they're very trouble free. They are an electronic lock.

I have an S&G electronic on my personal safe. It's been there for years, trouble free the entire time. That said, the electronic locks do not have the hundreds of years of history that the mechanical dial types do. Which is not to say that the mechanicals are all that good either. What?

It's like just about anything on the market today, you can go low & find your feet in the sewage or pay more & be above the stink. The Homak, Sentry type made in the PRC ( That's People's Republic of China, or RED CHINA ) do not have good mechanical combo dial locks in my experience. They don't have good electronic locks either, but you can get a 'safe' cheap.

Either of the American made brands of LaGard or S&G in either mechanical or electronic will be good locks, backed by a company that literally speaks your language & is located on the same continent. You pays yer nickel, etc.

900F

 

[Tman]

CB900F:
The electronic locks that you are referring to, are they the Kaba Mas locks? I remember looking at a GunnGard safe and it had a QuickLock II, which looked very similar to the Kaba Mas. Would you recommend this type of lock? Where can I find a Hamilton X0-9 in Texas?

 

[cgjunk2]

About 6 months back I bought a very small Mossberg safe big enough for two small handguns. It had the electronic lock. It failed completely in a few days (in the closed position), and it did not have a backup key. It was acting funny for a day or so before, so I took everything out and did not lose anything in it, except for a backup 9v battery that was inside the safe.

My dealer was nice enough to allow me to exhange it for a cheaper, bigger, lockbox with a key backup. This electronic lock has been fine since. Seems like a bit of a crapshoot.