Bullnettles
Member
I have been looking at a safe in Academy. Does anyone have any say on how Cannon safes hold up? I want this forever, but don't have an arm and a leg to donate. P/N is HR 6030 I believe. Thanks for your advice in advance!
Gun safes
- Thread starter Bullnettles
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308win
Member
Here is one of many threads re residential security containers (safes). Cannon is specifically mentioned. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134297&highlight=safes
Mike In Charleston
Member
Safe threads seem to wander all over the globe. I found the best price around my area for the Cannon 21 gun safe to be at the Tractor Supply Company surprisingly.
a1abdj
Member
Cannon has been reported by members of this forum to have poor customer service.
Bullnettles....Walk up to one of those Academy Cannons and wrap your knuckles on it's side and hear how hollow it sounds.
Thin body and poor insulation.
Then push back and forth on the closed and bolted door and feel how much give there is.
A weak box design.
Better than nothing but just barely.
Save up for a little while longer and then head over to Carters and order yourself an Amsec BF.
You will not regret it.
They gave me a smoking deal on my BF 66X36.
Thin body and poor insulation.
Then push back and forth on the closed and bolted door and feel how much give there is.
A weak box design.
Better than nothing but just barely.
Save up for a little while longer and then head over to Carters and order yourself an Amsec BF.
You will not regret it.
They gave me a smoking deal on my BF 66X36.
leadcounsel
member
www.sturdysafe.com will sell you a great safe. I have two and swear by them. This topic is covered weekly here. 'Search' is your friend my friend!
Don't skimp on quality when it comes to a safe. It will last a lifetime.
Don't skimp on quality when it comes to a safe. It will last a lifetime.
I've been going through the same process, no expert but do a lot of reading and talking to sales people. What I've noticed is the better RSC safes (253 $1000-1800 range) can be broken into around 3 to 7 minutes. I've read about using axe, metal grinders, torches, cheap plasma cutters, pry bars, drilling linkage for the lock, drilling and punching bolts. Saw the YouTube video of a standard safe (not bolted down) pried into around 2 minutes. Like to have seen a similar test with a grinder on 7 and 12 gauge steel, and one bolted down. Most burglar are using pry bars, but since grinders are becoming common, I figure it is only a matter of time before they’re used. I've heard people talk about buying time...but I'm not spending an extra $500-1000 for 2 minutes of time. At some point my home owners/renter insurance will pay for the losses. This means I won’t spend more than $1000 on a safe (if I had priceless valuables, I wouldn’t get a RSC).
I also have a difficult time believing the difference of 0.0747" (12g vs. 7g) of steel is going to make a difference. I read somewhere it may provide an extra 2 minutes. I have not seen any standardized theft tests anything measured in gauge (rolled steel).
I've also seen manufacturers make a big deal about the door of the safe. If it was me and I have access to the sides or top of the safe, that's where I would use my metal grinder, or the metal grinder I found in your garage. Ideally I’d place the safe in an area that makes it difficult to get to the sides, difficult to pry, and not near power tools.
Replacement warranties don’t make a difference to me, that’s what insurance is for. Plus my insurances gives me the freedom to buy a completely different safe, from a dealer of my choice, or just keep the cash.
If you intend to simply protect a burglar from a snatch and grab, that would mean any locked container bolted to the floor/wall is going to provide you the snatch and grab deterrent.
But I think the whole idea for a RSC is to buy a safe that intimidates the burglar enough that they won't think about trying to crack the safe. Get something that makes a burglar just walk away from the safe and not even bother to spend the time trying to get into it. If something looks too cheap, it looks easy, and a burglar may decide to give a try and end up causing damage (lock damage, relocker, spindles, clutches, prying, denting, drill holes, etc).
For me, I’m still torn about these safes not offering enough burglar protection to make me feel anything is really safe, yet costing $1000++. Since the safes aren’t tested and rated (I have not seen any tests or results to be convinced of anything), I have a difficult time paying $1000+.
Fire ratings have been confusing too. Seems like a lot of manufacturers use different testing methods, and I don’t know what the real truth is (I’m more likely to believe Sturdy and AMSEC ratings).
I also don’t believe all the marketing. They all have impressive marketing. Sturdy sounds impressive with law enforcement sales, but I don’t know if it is because they sell them cheaper, or what models/options, or if it was totally custom, or the same exact safe I want to buy for $1500 . Plus, I figure if they really wanted a safe, they would get a high end true safes, not a RSC safe. Sturdy is a metal box fabrication company, so I assume they can make anything they want for their large customers, which may not be the same thing I would end up getting with their $1500 safe. But I do pay attention that the quality and reputation is good enough, although every manufacturer has the high quality and lower quality products, perhaps Sturdy does too. So I take this all very lightly.
In my quest, I’ve looked at some safes in the $400-$2500 range: Harbor Freight, Cannon, Browning, Dakota, Costco Big Horn, Liberty, Sturdy, Sportsman Steel, Pentagon, AMSEC BF, and some high rated safes way out of my price range. The AMSEC BF appears to be a solid safe and very intimidating to break into, perhaps similar price with Sturdy depending on options. Sturdy seems to have done a lot of research, provides a lot of valuable information, lots of beefy options, but I won’t be spending $$$$ on something I can’t see and touch first. I don’t imagine paying $1500+ for something I haven’t seen or touched.
I’m torn between spending $400 ($250 on sale at Harbor Freight) to stop a snatch and grab thief and keep my kids out, versus $1000-1500 to intimidate a thief and make me feel better. I’m leaning towards a $400 safe, house alarm system, and good insurance.
Jake
I also have a difficult time believing the difference of 0.0747" (12g vs. 7g) of steel is going to make a difference. I read somewhere it may provide an extra 2 minutes. I have not seen any standardized theft tests anything measured in gauge (rolled steel).
I've also seen manufacturers make a big deal about the door of the safe. If it was me and I have access to the sides or top of the safe, that's where I would use my metal grinder, or the metal grinder I found in your garage. Ideally I’d place the safe in an area that makes it difficult to get to the sides, difficult to pry, and not near power tools.
Replacement warranties don’t make a difference to me, that’s what insurance is for. Plus my insurances gives me the freedom to buy a completely different safe, from a dealer of my choice, or just keep the cash.
If you intend to simply protect a burglar from a snatch and grab, that would mean any locked container bolted to the floor/wall is going to provide you the snatch and grab deterrent.
But I think the whole idea for a RSC is to buy a safe that intimidates the burglar enough that they won't think about trying to crack the safe. Get something that makes a burglar just walk away from the safe and not even bother to spend the time trying to get into it. If something looks too cheap, it looks easy, and a burglar may decide to give a try and end up causing damage (lock damage, relocker, spindles, clutches, prying, denting, drill holes, etc).
For me, I’m still torn about these safes not offering enough burglar protection to make me feel anything is really safe, yet costing $1000++. Since the safes aren’t tested and rated (I have not seen any tests or results to be convinced of anything), I have a difficult time paying $1000+.
Fire ratings have been confusing too. Seems like a lot of manufacturers use different testing methods, and I don’t know what the real truth is (I’m more likely to believe Sturdy and AMSEC ratings).
I also don’t believe all the marketing. They all have impressive marketing. Sturdy sounds impressive with law enforcement sales, but I don’t know if it is because they sell them cheaper, or what models/options, or if it was totally custom, or the same exact safe I want to buy for $1500 . Plus, I figure if they really wanted a safe, they would get a high end true safes, not a RSC safe. Sturdy is a metal box fabrication company, so I assume they can make anything they want for their large customers, which may not be the same thing I would end up getting with their $1500 safe. But I do pay attention that the quality and reputation is good enough, although every manufacturer has the high quality and lower quality products, perhaps Sturdy does too. So I take this all very lightly.
In my quest, I’ve looked at some safes in the $400-$2500 range: Harbor Freight, Cannon, Browning, Dakota, Costco Big Horn, Liberty, Sturdy, Sportsman Steel, Pentagon, AMSEC BF, and some high rated safes way out of my price range. The AMSEC BF appears to be a solid safe and very intimidating to break into, perhaps similar price with Sturdy depending on options. Sturdy seems to have done a lot of research, provides a lot of valuable information, lots of beefy options, but I won’t be spending $$$$ on something I can’t see and touch first. I don’t imagine paying $1500+ for something I haven’t seen or touched.
I’m torn between spending $400 ($250 on sale at Harbor Freight) to stop a snatch and grab thief and keep my kids out, versus $1000-1500 to intimidate a thief and make me feel better. I’m leaning towards a $400 safe, house alarm system, and good insurance.
Jake
308win
Member
So far all I have invested in is a 10 gun lockable cabinet to store some of my long guns; more to keep the grandkids safe from their inquiring minds and hands than to protect the firearms as the cabinet isn't going to slow a burglar down much. The shrill barking of the two shelties might be more of a deterrent.
You have good points. IMO, if one is on a tight budget, I'd spend the money on excellent doors/reinforced jambs, good locks and strong windows first, followed by a good alarm system before spending beaucoup $$$ on a safe. IMO, a safe is a last resort for protection. I even think having alert nosey neighbors that you are on good terms with is more important than an expensive safe.
Yeah, with power tools, it probably isn't going to make much of a difference. The increase in steel supposedly adds measurable time in breaking in when using hand tools, pry bars, axes and sledgehammers.
I think it's good idea to hide or lock up all your tools. Since I don't have a grinder, plasma cutter, or any torch the intruders are just going to have to bring their own.
The only walls that will cause serious obstacles are exterior walls since knocking those down will really draw attention. If they are that desperate, pesky interior walls will only be a nuisance. Regardless anything that adds to the noise and time (the big enemies of burglars) is welcomed.
Both safes will do the job. The AMSEC BF door is tough (for the price). The 2 inch composite body have a few more question marks since their exact construction is still debated (11/16 gauge wall or is it 10/14?) IMO, there isn't any significant difference since we are talking sheet metal here. It looks like starting last year they've added a heavier Drylight compound. How it adds/changes to the burglary resistance is unknown. The cutouts I've seen, the Drylight seemed solid. Regardless no RSC is going to hold out long compared to a real safe in a concerted attack.
If the above mentioned burglars came prepared to torch a safe, IMO, they may have had information beforehand. Police response must have been unusually quick, or the invaders spent too much time there. Maybe the safe really did do its job in slowing the burglars up.
My unfortunate dealings with burglars is you don't want to be an easy mark. Once they get something from your home and they get away with it, IME, they often come back. One can get really tired of unwanted visitors.
Yeah, with power tools, it probably isn't going to make much of a difference. The increase in steel supposedly adds measurable time in breaking in when using hand tools, pry bars, axes and sledgehammers.
I think it's good idea to hide or lock up all your tools. Since I don't have a grinder, plasma cutter, or any torch the intruders are just going to have to bring their own.
The only walls that will cause serious obstacles are exterior walls since knocking those down will really draw attention. If they are that desperate, pesky interior walls will only be a nuisance. Regardless anything that adds to the noise and time (the big enemies of burglars) is welcomed. Both safes will do the job. The AMSEC BF door is tough (for the price). The 2 inch composite body have a few more question marks since their exact construction is still debated (11/16 gauge wall or is it 10/14?) IMO, there isn't any significant difference since we are talking sheet metal here. It looks like starting last year they've added a heavier Drylight compound. How it adds/changes to the burglary resistance is unknown. The cutouts I've seen, the Drylight seemed solid. Regardless no RSC is going to hold out long compared to a real safe in a concerted attack.
If the above mentioned burglars came prepared to torch a safe, IMO, they may have had information beforehand. Police response must have been unusually quick, or the invaders spent too much time there. Maybe the safe really did do its job in slowing the burglars up.
My unfortunate dealings with burglars is you don't want to be an easy mark. Once they get something from your home and they get away with it, IME, they often come back. One can get really tired of unwanted visitors.
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Snakyjake,most burglars dont use power tools in residential break ins.
Not saying they dont mind you.
But even the highly acclaimed Graffunder would be in trouble if that's what they had in their hands when they came in.
Everytime my home was broken into they used a prying tool to get into a door.
Unfortunately that's been three times too many.
Not saying they dont mind you.
But even the highly acclaimed Graffunder would be in trouble if that's what they had in their hands when they came in.
Everytime my home was broken into they used a prying tool to get into a door.
Unfortunately that's been three times too many.
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Bullnettles
Member
Thank you all for the replies! I will go check out the build quality of the Cannon before I buy. What is a BF safe? Browning Firearms?
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