Gun Safety Question

[psyprofessor]

The question I'm about to ask is often confused with two other questions. So let me clarify.

I'm not asking which you prefer...revolver vs. semi auto. (I think we all have strong opinions on this.)

I'm also not asking which mode of carry do you use. (I think that most semi auto guys carry one in the chamber. And this question has been dealt with already in other posts.)


The question at hand is this:

Which is safer in terms of an accidental discharged if dropped... a double action revolver or a semiauto, round in the chamber, hammer down, safety on. (If you need more specifics... S&W .38 vs. Baretta M9)

 

[12131]

Glock

 

[RNB65]

S&W revolver by a tiny margin because the hammer block ensures that the hammer can't hit the primer if dropped. But the Beretta also has internal safety features (I'm not familiar with the Beretta M92's internals) that prevent the same thing, so it's pretty much a toss up. I'd be equally comfortable with either.

 

[Loomis]

If your smith has firing pin in frame, not on hammer, then answer is BOTH.

Neither one can fire if dropped.

 

[Loomis]

Beretta92 locks the firing pin in place unless trigger is all the way to the rear.

It's impossible for the beretta to discharge from dropping it.

 

[icecorps]

All modern guns in good condition are drop safe (with possible exception of some single action revolvers? Anyone?).

 

[The Bushmaster]

The M92FS hammer safety or decocker rolls the firing pin striker or button 90* out of battery and it's impossible for the hammer to contact the firing pin. S&W uses a hammer block that can (very rare) be broken...You decide...

My Colt SAA (1966 2nd generation) is drop safe as long as the hammer is on an empty chamber or the hammer is down between rounds which locks the cylinder (not entirely a safe practice)...

 

[tipoc]

Both the M38 and the 92 are drop safety tested. Both have hammer block safeties, though of very different designs of course, which work as they should. No safety is 100% though, 100% of the time, just as the brakes on your vehicle aren't. But if the gun is kept in good condition and is mechanically sound then they work, as will your brakes.

During WWII the U.S. Navy reported 2 cases of S&W revolvers discharging when dropped on the steel decks of ships. S&W added a hammer block safety which prevented the firing pin from contacting the primer unless the trigger is all the way to the rear, IIRC. Colt had done the same a few years earlier. S&W revolvers with hammer mounted firing pins from WWII on are safe even if dropped on a steel deck and the hammer is struck. Ruger DA wheelguns have had such safeties in them from the beginning.

So try not to drop your guns and you'll be fine. The best safety device is you.

tipoc

 

[DWARREN123]

In newer/modern type handguns, either semi or revolver, both should be completely safe if dropped.

 

[Drgong]

All modern* guns are drop safe.


*(New production SA revolvers are not, and I while I am unsure of the circle of fire (Jennings/Byco/Raven Arms, ect) are drop safe, I would not trust them to be drop safe. )

 

[JesseL]

*(New production SA revolvers are not,

Some new production single action revolvers are not drop safe (mostly the faithful Colt SAA clones).

My New Model Blackhawk is every bit as drop safe as any pistol on the market.

 

[rcmodel]

If your smith has firing pin in frame, not on hammer, then answer is BOTH.

Whether the firing pin is in the frame, or in the hammer, has nothing to do with anything.

All S&W DA's have always had a rebound slide blocking the hammer from below when the trigger is foreword. Only if an impact completely broke of the hammer stud in the frame could the firing pin hit a primer.

After about WWII, the hammer block bar safety was added which sandwiches itself between the hammer & the frame unless the trigger is all the way back.

That made them doubly safe, blocked in two places.

You could beat on the hammer with a hammer and a S&W cannot go off.

(Unless something is missing or badly broke.)
And I have never seen a hammer block break on a S&W, ever.

rcmodel

 

[Drgong]

thanks for catching that JesseL

 

[tipoc]

Colt SAAs and their clones are safely carried with the hammer over an empty chamber. Load one, skip one, load four, was the mantra. A person could load the 6th round if action was imminent.

The newer single actions like the Berretta and the later Rugers have hammer block safeties to protect the ignorant. Consult the manual if you are not sure.

tipoc

 

[Loomis]

A SAA with hammer on empty is not perfectly drop safe. Theoretically, you could impact the butt hard enough to make the hammer jerk back, rotate the cylinder, then drop and fire a round.

I'm pretty sure the lightweight frame S&W revolver with firing pin on hammer did NOT have the bar, only the slide, and never did have the bar. But I could be wrong.

My rule of thumb, is if you can see the roll pin on a "down" hammer on a smith, it may not be idiot proofed. Don't jar it.

 

[tipoc]

It was in 1944 that S&W introduced the "slide action hammer block" at the request of the U.S. Navy. Prior to this the hammer safety was a shoulder on the rebound slide which was forced against a shoulder on the hammer. With enough force the hammer pivot could be broken and the hammer could strike the primer. The post 44' guns had a sliding arm between the hammer and the frame. This arm prevented the firing pin from contacting the primer. It is lowered only when the trigger is brought fully to the rear. S&W uses the same basic design to this day. All S&W revolvers made since 44' have had this feature. So unless the bar was removed by a previous owner (in a misguided effort to get a lighter trigger) or the gun is defective it will have this bar and be as drop safe as any on the market. When you cock the hammer you can see this bar move.

Guns with internal firing pins, Rugers and current S&Ws are not safe unless they have this "sliding bar safety". Without it the hammer face could strike the internal pin with enough force to set the primer off. This type of bar safety was first introduced in the early part of the last century by Harrington and Richardson, IIRC. Colt later came up with their own version. While S&W followed in '44.

The reason for the change from external firing pins to the internal pins had little to do with safety. The internal pins are more robust and wear much less on the firing pin bushing. They are also less expensive to machine. They still require a transfer bar or sliding block safety to be "drop safe".

A SAA with hammer on empty is not perfectly drop safe. Theoretically, you could impact the butt hard enough to make the hammer jerk back, rotate the cylinder, then drop and fire a round.

I've never heard or read of this happening. For it to happen would take a drop to a hard surface(harder than dirt) that hit the hammer just right with enough force to cock it and rotate the cylinder (while it was still bouncing in the air), and than for the gun to come back to earth and hit with enough force to break the half cock notch and cause the hammer to hit the primer. Theoretically if you dropped it from a two story building onto concrete I suppose it could happen. If a gun is defective, or a part breaks, about anything can happen that a person could think up. It can also happen to any gun irregardless of the built in safety devices.

Guns is dangerous, especially if defective or poorly maintained. Proper maintenance and good gun handling skills help to minimize the danger. Knowledge of a specific gun helps too.

tipoc

 

[rcmodel]

I believe you would break the grip frame clear off a Colt SAA before you could drop it far enough or hard enough to cock the hammer even partially due to impact.
Let alone cock it far enough to rotate the cylinder and bring a round under the hammer.

rcmodel

 

[BlindJustice]

My J, K, L & N frame S&Ws are of recent production and thus have the transfer bar, blocking the hammer and firing pin connection.

My S&W 1911 and CZ 75B have firing pin blocks, that isn't the reason I
bought these particular models, however, I would call my 1911 the 'safest'
because of the redudndant thumb & grip safety.

Randall