Will a dropped gun fire?
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dmazur
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Something you can do with older 70 Series 1911's is replace the firing pin with a titanium one, and replace the firing pin spring with a heavier one.
The combination makes the 70 Series very difficult to get to fire if dropped on a hard surface.
I read somewhere that one of the current manufacturers of 1911's did something like this to pass a drop test, but I don't have details (like how high, etc.)
I have a 80 Series 1991A1 in Commander length and also a 70 Series Combat Commander. I put titanium firing pins/heavier springs in both and they both run fine.
(This doesn't really address the original question...it's sort of an aside on the question of "Will a dropped Series 70 1911 fire?")
The combination makes the 70 Series very difficult to get to fire if dropped on a hard surface.
I read somewhere that one of the current manufacturers of 1911's did something like this to pass a drop test, but I don't have details (like how high, etc.)
I have a 80 Series 1991A1 in Commander length and also a 70 Series Combat Commander. I put titanium firing pins/heavier springs in both and they both run fine.
(This doesn't really address the original question...it's sort of an aside on the question of "Will a dropped Series 70 1911 fire?")
While the Colt Series 70 and earlier models (including the ones bought by Uncle Sam) going back to the first one made in 1911 were not made with a firing pin lock, the firing pins were not free floating. Free floating would mean that there was no firing pin spring, which there was. The firing pin was shorter then the tunnel it was enclosed in, and if the pistol was dropped on the muzzle the pin's forward movement would first have to overcome the tension of the spring.
In 1937 Colt introduced a somewhat complicated firing pin safety designed by W.L. Swartz, and tried to sell it to the U.S. Army, who quickly turned it down. Then they tried to sell it to Brazil, who was a major customer at the time. They also said, "No." The lock was quickly dropped in 1941 when the war started, and never was reintroduced. Obviously no one was lusting to get a firing pin lock!
Maybe Browning was right in the first place, but a heavy-duty firing pin spring is not a bad idea.
In 1937 Colt introduced a somewhat complicated firing pin safety designed by W.L. Swartz, and tried to sell it to the U.S. Army, who quickly turned it down. Then they tried to sell it to Brazil, who was a major customer at the time. They also said, "No." The lock was quickly dropped in 1941 when the war started, and never was reintroduced. Obviously no one was lusting to get a firing pin lock!
Maybe Browning was right in the first place, but a heavy-duty firing pin spring is not a bad idea.
makarovnik
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Some will but most shouldn't. Newer guns have to pass a drop test.
CajunBass
Member
In the movies, all of them do.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
I'll concur with that and maintain that the firing pin spring was weak or maybe out of spec. If it was a real Series 70, it's also possible that the firing pin channel was short our of spec, or the firing pin was long out of spec. That's not a design problem, but rather one of the execution of the design. Series 70 production has gained a reputation of being Colt's dark days, when quality was hit or miss.
I ran a drop test myself a few years back. Before I started, I installed a new firing pin spring. Using an old, unserviceable slide and barrel...I proceeded to drop the gun onto concrete from increasing heights...climbing up a stepladder one rung at a time. At a height of 10 feet, I finally got a primer to fire...after several tries.
3-4 feet? not at all likely with a gun that's within spec with a good spring.
I used the term "free floating" as opposed to the blocked firing pin. That's a fairly common term.
Those saying "not likely" is the exact reason we were doing the tests. We were doing the tests for liability reasons and our research in some of our investigations. Did they fire every time? Nope, but it was possible and did occur. It all depended on if dropped from sufficient height on a hard surface and landed just right (or wrong) on the muzzle and primer hardness. These were speced out guns because we were testing for liability/investigative issues. Out of spec guns would not have been valid tests. These weren't tests done in someone's backyard but documented in case we needed to use them in court.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
No gun is as "safe" if it's dropped as it is if it's not dropped. The designers worked to prevent that, but they can't control everything.
The 1911 was designed by Browning and the U.S. Army primarily for the U.S.Cavalry, which was still horse mounted at the time. Dropping it from the back of a horse was considered, and it was over-engineered in all reasonable attempts to insure that it wouldn't fire if dropped onto the ground from that height. We can keep upping the ante by dropping it onto concrete from increasing heights until we eventually defeat the system...but in a real-world scenario, it's so unlikely that it could almost be called and Act of Providence. This, even though the harder primers used for real GI spec ammunition are harder to dent than most modern commercial primers. I ran my tests with the softest that were available. Federal.
I'll still stand by the statement that if the gun is within spec and the spring is good...the pistol will require being dropped straight onto a hard surface from a greater height than a man's shoulder in order to fire. As noted, Colt wasn't having its heyday during the 70s. New spring doesn't equal good spring. Back in those days, I found several things in Colts that weren't exactly what they should have been...springs included.
By the way...The term is "Inertial" firing pin. I suppose that it's technically a momentum firing pin, since that's what keeps it moving forward once it's been struck...but that's an academic point. Inertial is what it's called in the patents.
Yes there is. The spring...which must be within spec as to length and compressed strength. If it is, you won't have a problem...unless you climb up on top of a house and drop the gun from up there.
If you'll notice, primers in rounds chambered automatically in Garands, M14s, and AR15/M16 rifles will also be marked. Some pretty deep.
The 1911 was designed by Browning and the U.S. Army primarily for the U.S.Cavalry, which was still horse mounted at the time. Dropping it from the back of a horse was considered, and it was over-engineered in all reasonable attempts to insure that it wouldn't fire if dropped onto the ground from that height. We can keep upping the ante by dropping it onto concrete from increasing heights until we eventually defeat the system...but in a real-world scenario, it's so unlikely that it could almost be called and Act of Providence. This, even though the harder primers used for real GI spec ammunition are harder to dent than most modern commercial primers. I ran my tests with the softest that were available. Federal.
I'll still stand by the statement that if the gun is within spec and the spring is good...the pistol will require being dropped straight onto a hard surface from a greater height than a man's shoulder in order to fire. As noted, Colt wasn't having its heyday during the 70s. New spring doesn't equal good spring. Back in those days, I found several things in Colts that weren't exactly what they should have been...springs included.
By the way...The term is "Inertial" firing pin. I suppose that it's technically a momentum firing pin, since that's what keeps it moving forward once it's been struck...but that's an academic point. Inertial is what it's called in the patents.
Yes there is. The spring...which must be within spec as to length and compressed strength. If it is, you won't have a problem...unless you climb up on top of a house and drop the gun from up there.
If you'll notice, primers in rounds chambered automatically in Garands, M14s, and AR15/M16 rifles will also be marked. Some pretty deep.
The reason we did the test was because we had people saying the 1911 wouldn't fire if dropped. It was a critical part of a shooting case we were investigating and the testing was necessary for possible criminal charges and the civil case. Our test showed that it was entirely possible and could happen, even with in-spec guns. Doing the testing with out of spec guns would have been useless in court. The reason we used 3 to 4 ft was the distance from a holstered gun to about shoulder height.
AKElroy
Member
Not to hijack this thread, I would like to offer that ALL guns can fire when dropped------If you try to catch them. DON'T!!!
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Not doubtin' your word, isp. I'm telling you that something was wrong with your gun. Weak spring...long firing pin...or short firing pin channel. Maybe a combination of any or all.
With the one that I tested, all related specs were checked and verified before the test started.
With the one that I tested, all related specs were checked and verified before the test started.
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