Doggy Daddy
Member
No.
I'll ONLY be content with keeping what I have and regaining what has been taken. There'll be no "one step forward, two steps back." It must be one step forward, then hold position until we can make another step forward.
DD
gun shops in europe?
- Thread starter coosbaycreep
- Start date
- Status
No.
I'll ONLY be content with keeping what I have and regaining what has been taken. There'll be no "one step forward, two steps back." It must be one step forward, then hold position until we can make another step forward.
DD
ThrottleJockey72
member
Not here in Minnesota. You have to have a "permit to purchase". It requires a background check identical to the "permit to carry" check. Then you still have to go through NICs too. And if you are a regular purchaser, as in every week or more than once a week, NICs will make you wait. I'm certain this isn't just in MN either.
In my view that is the only position to have - zero compromise and a commitment to pass traditions down to the next generation.
Also agree that saying you feel safer in Europe than the U.S. isn't accurate and I've lived in Dublin, Paris, Moscow and Luxembourg. Bad things happen to good people everywhere - unfortunately that is life but I would prefer to have a handgun as a means of defense against a knife.
The fact of the matter is that in Europe the firearm/handgun has been removed for many decades as a 'means of defense' for the law abiding citizen which is sad but that is the law & as such we obey....criminals obviously are indifferent.
As for gun stores, if you went to Frankonia in Germany you would have a very different view - you can't take one gunshop in the E.U. as being representative of the rest, massive differences in firearms legislation in every country....which accounts for large variations in the type of things you see in a gunshop.
As a European, I fully agree with your sentiment Doggy Daddy. Look at how much the Swiss have lost complying with EU legislation on firearms...by being 'reasonable' and compromising with the other side. It just gets worse and worse...more and more restrictive with each passing year.
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I think we all agree what we want (near enough), so it's just a question of what methods would be effective to deliver that. Is it :
A Only elect people who will guarantee no restrictions at all and roll back existing restrictions
OR
B Play politics and outsmart them with clever tactics giving them bits of what they want that make them look good, but getting what we want too
OR
C Some people talk about seceding from the USA or carrying out armed revolution. I think they are proposing fighting the politicians but of course it would really mean killing American Police Officers and/or U.S. soldiers so I would dismiss that option and I hope it isn't the reason why people are buying guns in large numbers
Option A would be nice but in reality, the urbanization of the US and the change in demographics means it's a losing tactic. It's like Northern Ireland, the demographics of which will automatically take it into a united Ireland when a referendum comes in 20, 30 years or whatever.
Option C is a fantasy and the people who propose it are the biggest supporters of US Police Officers and the Military so it's just a non starter
That only leaves option B. Politicians are weak and unprincipled and can be manipulated.
When management negotiate with the unions, they give them stuff that doesn't matter but get valuable concessions that they can extend in future. Politicians are masters of this and have been doing it to us - but if we turn the tables and use their tactics against them , that would be a great outcome.
But that will involve intelligent strategy and just confronting them with no power in our corner will not do the job
When the NRA upset the Washington Laws and got me my guns, it wasn't through the vote and it wasn't through armed confrontation - it was through money and clever attorneys and strategy. I reckon that's the way to go using existing laws and the constitution, but outwitting (ok moulding) public opinion is also very necessary and making a big deal about some pretty easy concessions on our side would reduce the opposition and enhance our chances of holding the line on the big stuff
Of course it would be nice to just dig in and say 'from my cold fingers ' etc, but if we have no trench and no weapons, it's a losing strategy in the long run and we need smarter strategies to achieve our purpose
A Only elect people who will guarantee no restrictions at all and roll back existing restrictions
OR
B Play politics and outsmart them with clever tactics giving them bits of what they want that make them look good, but getting what we want too
OR
C Some people talk about seceding from the USA or carrying out armed revolution. I think they are proposing fighting the politicians but of course it would really mean killing American Police Officers and/or U.S. soldiers so I would dismiss that option and I hope it isn't the reason why people are buying guns in large numbers
Option A would be nice but in reality, the urbanization of the US and the change in demographics means it's a losing tactic. It's like Northern Ireland, the demographics of which will automatically take it into a united Ireland when a referendum comes in 20, 30 years or whatever.
Option C is a fantasy and the people who propose it are the biggest supporters of US Police Officers and the Military so it's just a non starter
That only leaves option B. Politicians are weak and unprincipled and can be manipulated.
When management negotiate with the unions, they give them stuff that doesn't matter but get valuable concessions that they can extend in future. Politicians are masters of this and have been doing it to us - but if we turn the tables and use their tactics against them , that would be a great outcome.
But that will involve intelligent strategy and just confronting them with no power in our corner will not do the job
When the NRA upset the Washington Laws and got me my guns, it wasn't through the vote and it wasn't through armed confrontation - it was through money and clever attorneys and strategy. I reckon that's the way to go using existing laws and the constitution, but outwitting (ok moulding) public opinion is also very necessary and making a big deal about some pretty easy concessions on our side would reduce the opposition and enhance our chances of holding the line on the big stuff
Of course it would be nice to just dig in and say 'from my cold fingers ' etc, but if we have no trench and no weapons, it's a losing strategy in the long run and we need smarter strategies to achieve our purpose
Shung
Member
the only way not to LOOSE any rights, is to fight for MORE rights, not makiing compromises.. You won't get them, but at least you will be fighting for something you cannot loose..
allserene
The NRA didn't negociate or compromise on other areas of the firearms legislation to obtain the rights in relation to overturning the handgun ban.
They didn't concede other areas but recovered what was originally taken away.
Your attitude, having read your posts, is too English.
You compromised time and time again and the UK has precious little left, no handguns(not even rimfire) and only .22lr is authorised as a semi-auto.
There is no compromise because time and time and time again it will be more restrictive legislation.
The NRA didn't negociate or compromise on other areas of the firearms legislation to obtain the rights in relation to overturning the handgun ban.
They didn't concede other areas but recovered what was originally taken away.
Your attitude, having read your posts, is too English.
You compromised time and time again and the UK has precious little left, no handguns(not even rimfire) and only .22lr is authorised as a semi-auto.
There is no compromise because time and time and time again it will be more restrictive legislation.
By too English I mean the following
You said “I was an officer in a gun club for 14 years in England.”
And then you make reference to nearly shooting yourself with an AR-15.
I bought the AR15 and bought a gun club membership in the gun shop here and was given a key. I went up there on my own and figured out how the AR15 worked by trial and error and managed not to shoot my head off - just.
I’m sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe as a former ‘officer in a gun club for 14 years’. What ever happened to each individual "assuming responsibility for their own actions" the AR-15 came with a manual...or I'm certain you could have downloaded one off the net and read it to understand how the basic firearm operates before renting one at the club. You could even have asked somebody to explain its operation, an AR is an AR. But by your rationale people should have mandatory training 1 hour enforced by the government. To me that is like treating the average Joe like an enfant. We don't have that in Luxembourg you'll be happy to hear and nobody is shooting themselves here.
“To get ammo on behalf of the club in England, I had to have all sorts of authorisations - here I go into Walmart with a trolley. ”
why are cartridges in a grocery store so dangerous? Unless you have a firearm I don't see the problem....I guess you are worried criminals can buy the ammo. Well they will get ammo off the black market regardless so why inconvenience 95% of the law abiding citizens for the 5% of criminals.
you’re still thinking as though you are in the U.K. It’s a repressive system. In Luxembourg I can walk into my armory and buy 200,000 rounds if I want and why not? Why shouldn't I be allowed to buy as much bulk ammo as I wish to take advantage of good prices or stockpile ammo while it is still cheap....the way some did in the US before the ammo shortage there. French/Germans buy ridiculous amounts of ammo here due to cheap prices, 20-30k each...nobody cares.
In the UK, to get my firearms certificate, the police interviewed me at home and went down the street asking the neighbours about me. I did 6 months probation as a gun club member, got references and then eventually I got a permit for a single shot 22. It was a very very long careful process. Now it's even harder and expensive too with alterations to your house and special direct alarms etc
The process is hard/expensive for a single deliberate reason – It puts people off becoming a target shooter/hunter due to the high expense and time consuming paperwork with all sorts of documents required/interviews/police requiring statements from friends on your character/residence/employment blah blah blah blah blah. It is nothing but a nanny state obsessed with 300 checks & balances before giving you the right to own a rifle…a single shot .22 at that - that's CRAZY!! and you have to justify each and every firearm you buy..awaiting their approval first to add anything to your license….amount of ammo for each and every rifle needs to be justified as well, maybe they'll allow you up your 300 limit to buy an actual brick of .22lr...a whole 500 rounds. I know the UK system. It’s incredibly repressive, almost sickening like the system in the republic of Ireland.
There are so many points in your posts that illustrate your way of thinking that as I said is simply too English....all from the 14 years experience of living in the U.K.
“I am in favour of easy gun laws but only when people are more carefully checked. I know that here, that has conotations of tyrants etc, but that is more to do with culture and history, and I reckon extra checking of people and required gun cabinets etc , in exchange for a reinforcement and guarantee of gun rights at the Federal level and pre empting State laws, would satify me when the day arrives that it's any of my business”
you see the need for all of that because you lived within the UK system for so long and for you it is ‘normal’. The Americans do not see that need and in my opinion rightly so because politicians haven’t passed daft laws to make it expensive/extremely time consuming to get a license to own a single shot .22
Roll back 60-100 years ago and look at firearms legislation…we had none of this nonsense in Europe and now it’s all we have each and every year.
I mean the Swiss socialist party wants to ban pump action shotguns solely because of the perception of the ‘pump action’ part of it. It's beyond a joke.
Our grandfathers lived in times where they had no such laws, why can’t we do likewise? Has human nature changed that much that we are a greater danger to the public/ourselves with firearms ?
Personally, I think not.
You said “I was an officer in a gun club for 14 years in England.”
And then you make reference to nearly shooting yourself with an AR-15.
I bought the AR15 and bought a gun club membership in the gun shop here and was given a key. I went up there on my own and figured out how the AR15 worked by trial and error and managed not to shoot my head off - just.
I’m sorry but I find that extremely hard to believe as a former ‘officer in a gun club for 14 years’. What ever happened to each individual "assuming responsibility for their own actions" the AR-15 came with a manual...or I'm certain you could have downloaded one off the net and read it to understand how the basic firearm operates before renting one at the club. You could even have asked somebody to explain its operation, an AR is an AR. But by your rationale people should have mandatory training 1 hour enforced by the government. To me that is like treating the average Joe like an enfant. We don't have that in Luxembourg you'll be happy to hear and nobody is shooting themselves here.
“To get ammo on behalf of the club in England, I had to have all sorts of authorisations - here I go into Walmart with a trolley. ”
why are cartridges in a grocery store so dangerous? Unless you have a firearm I don't see the problem....I guess you are worried criminals can buy the ammo. Well they will get ammo off the black market regardless so why inconvenience 95% of the law abiding citizens for the 5% of criminals.
you’re still thinking as though you are in the U.K. It’s a repressive system. In Luxembourg I can walk into my armory and buy 200,000 rounds if I want and why not? Why shouldn't I be allowed to buy as much bulk ammo as I wish to take advantage of good prices or stockpile ammo while it is still cheap....the way some did in the US before the ammo shortage there. French/Germans buy ridiculous amounts of ammo here due to cheap prices, 20-30k each...nobody cares.
In the UK, to get my firearms certificate, the police interviewed me at home and went down the street asking the neighbours about me. I did 6 months probation as a gun club member, got references and then eventually I got a permit for a single shot 22. It was a very very long careful process. Now it's even harder and expensive too with alterations to your house and special direct alarms etc
The process is hard/expensive for a single deliberate reason – It puts people off becoming a target shooter/hunter due to the high expense and time consuming paperwork with all sorts of documents required/interviews/police requiring statements from friends on your character/residence/employment blah blah blah blah blah. It is nothing but a nanny state obsessed with 300 checks & balances before giving you the right to own a rifle…a single shot .22 at that - that's CRAZY!! and you have to justify each and every firearm you buy..awaiting their approval first to add anything to your license….amount of ammo for each and every rifle needs to be justified as well, maybe they'll allow you up your 300 limit to buy an actual brick of .22lr...a whole 500 rounds. I know the UK system. It’s incredibly repressive, almost sickening like the system in the republic of Ireland.
There are so many points in your posts that illustrate your way of thinking that as I said is simply too English....all from the 14 years experience of living in the U.K.
“I am in favour of easy gun laws but only when people are more carefully checked. I know that here, that has conotations of tyrants etc, but that is more to do with culture and history, and I reckon extra checking of people and required gun cabinets etc , in exchange for a reinforcement and guarantee of gun rights at the Federal level and pre empting State laws, would satify me when the day arrives that it's any of my business”
you see the need for all of that because you lived within the UK system for so long and for you it is ‘normal’. The Americans do not see that need and in my opinion rightly so because politicians haven’t passed daft laws to make it expensive/extremely time consuming to get a license to own a single shot .22
Roll back 60-100 years ago and look at firearms legislation…we had none of this nonsense in Europe and now it’s all we have each and every year.
I mean the Swiss socialist party wants to ban pump action shotguns solely because of the perception of the ‘pump action’ part of it. It's beyond a joke.
Our grandfathers lived in times where they had no such laws, why can’t we do likewise? Has human nature changed that much that we are a greater danger to the public/ourselves with firearms ?
Personally, I think not.
Shung
Member
100% agree with Lykoris..
WE DON'T WANT a nanny state !
Responsabilize citizens.. Punish guilty people severly,but STOP putting all evils on the back of the society !
WE DON'T WANT a nanny state !
Responsabilize citizens.. Punish guilty people severly,but STOP putting all evils on the back of the society !
Shung
Member
yep, a joke.. btw, their are things even more funny.. In a BEGLIAN law text, certain type of guns are officially qualified as "rambo type weapons"....
:banghead:
Your attitude, having read your posts, is too English.
You compromised time and time again and the UK has precious little left, no handguns(not even rimfire) and only .22lr is authorised as a semi-auto.
I am not apologizing for being English and next year when I become American, I wont apologize for being an American either...
You seem to think that I compromised in the UK and I am responsible for what the UK laws are and I am trying to transplant that into the US. Shoot the messenger or what.
Nothing could be further from the truth. UK laws are a sneaky gun ban by the back door and not a safety move at all - I only described them so people would know how it works - I didnt expect ANYONE to get the idea I agreed with those laws and try to hold me personally responsible
BUT - basic safety training (1 hour) and steel cabinets would stop incidents happening that are bad for ALL shooters. (keep the guns away from kids, thieves, depressed wives)
When I go on utube and see a 7 year old who has never handled a gun, and I see someone give him a full auto AK and he fires it in a semi circle and everyone dives for cover, I know that basic safe handling needs to be improved. That stuff happening doesn't help ANY of us guys or our cause
The guy Dick Cheney peppered agrees with me so that's one.
You compromised time and time again and the UK has precious little left, no handguns(not even rimfire) and only .22lr is authorised as a semi-auto.
I am not apologizing for being English and next year when I become American, I wont apologize for being an American either...
You seem to think that I compromised in the UK and I am responsible for what the UK laws are and I am trying to transplant that into the US. Shoot the messenger or what.
Nothing could be further from the truth. UK laws are a sneaky gun ban by the back door and not a safety move at all - I only described them so people would know how it works - I didnt expect ANYONE to get the idea I agreed with those laws and try to hold me personally responsible
BUT - basic safety training (1 hour) and steel cabinets would stop incidents happening that are bad for ALL shooters. (keep the guns away from kids, thieves, depressed wives)
When I go on utube and see a 7 year old who has never handled a gun, and I see someone give him a full auto AK and he fires it in a semi circle and everyone dives for cover, I know that basic safe handling needs to be improved. That stuff happening doesn't help ANY of us guys or our cause
The guy Dick Cheney peppered agrees with me so that's one.
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this thread will be shut down given it is off-topic from the OP so I set up a different thread to respond to you Allserene
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5903307#post5903307
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5903307#post5903307
rbernie
Contributing Member
We do seemed to have wandered a bit far from the premise of the thread, namely the quantity and quality of gunshops in Europe.
Let's reel it back in.
Let's reel it back in.
texasaggie2010
Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1
Ill give it a shot.
Hopefully I'll be going to europe next summer on a study abroad. Im interested in C&R and WW 1 WW 2 type firearms, K31 G41, G42, Lugers, Walthers, 1911's if I were so lucky. How would one go about finding a gun shop in europe? Any particular country or area that caters to the american tourist? Any "local" open air vegetable and gun market? Any experiences on importing into the US through an importer (seems like a $100 fee)?
Any ideas on the US military parts clause on ATF Form 6? Can I not buy a WW2 1911 and import it to the US?
Hopefully I'll be going to europe next summer on a study abroad. Im interested in C&R and WW 1 WW 2 type firearms, K31 G41, G42, Lugers, Walthers, 1911's if I were so lucky. How would one go about finding a gun shop in europe? Any particular country or area that caters to the american tourist? Any "local" open air vegetable and gun market? Any experiences on importing into the US through an importer (seems like a $100 fee)?
Any ideas on the US military parts clause on ATF Form 6? Can I not buy a WW2 1911 and import it to the US?
Shung
Member
COME to SWITZERLAND !
I don't know if you can buy and export a WW2 gun, but I sure can do it for you !
I don't know if you can buy and export a WW2 gun, but I sure can do it for you !
John Parker
Member
- Joined
- May 14, 2009
- Messages
- 679
Tiny bit of important clarification: the US Constitution does not give anyone any rights. It's intent is to ensure that the government cannot infringe on natural and God-given rights. It itself is a document designed to limit government power by defining what the government can and cannot do.
"
In the US the average gun buyer want gun for self/home defense.
In most European countries, especially in former socialist bloc, there is no such thing. Selfdefence is not a legal reason to have a lethal firearm.
We are limited to some non-lethal guns (and it is still a big step forward from the times before 1990.).
The real firearms here (in Hungary) are in 90% hunting rifles.
(The other legal possibility is target shooting, but that is also very expensive for the average people.)
BUT our gun shops are still much better than yours in New York City, I think
ezypikns
Member
It would be nice to imagine.......
that there are countries with gun shops with a better selection and more reasonable prices than here in the U.S.
There aren't.
In the first place, I don't think there is a country in the world today that has less restrictive gun laws than we do.
I know, I know, there are lots of people here who want to change that. That's why we have to keep a close eye on them, and do everything we can to support RKBA.
I'm not saying you can't buy, own, and use guns anywhere else in the world.
But for ordinary people, living ordinary peaceful lives (that kind of cuts out the poopholes of the world where every wild eyed religious fanatic or teenager has a beat up AK), we have it the best.
As the OP said, he's just an average guy. Here in the U.S. even an average guy can have a collection other gun enthusiasts in the world (not the very rich) would really envy.
Here's a little test for example: Someone here on "The High Road" has an M1 for sale. He (or she) lives right there in your home town in the good old U.S.A. You've got the cash so you arrange to meet in a parking lot. It's nice if the two of you exchange a simple bill of sale, but the law doesn't require it. Everything's good. Everything's legal. Everyone's happy.
Ask some of our foreign members here how that transaction would be viewed in their countries. Maybe it would be just dandy.
Think about it.
that there are countries with gun shops with a better selection and more reasonable prices than here in the U.S.
There aren't.
In the first place, I don't think there is a country in the world today that has less restrictive gun laws than we do.
I know, I know, there are lots of people here who want to change that. That's why we have to keep a close eye on them, and do everything we can to support RKBA.
I'm not saying you can't buy, own, and use guns anywhere else in the world.
But for ordinary people, living ordinary peaceful lives (that kind of cuts out the poopholes of the world where every wild eyed religious fanatic or teenager has a beat up AK), we have it the best.
As the OP said, he's just an average guy. Here in the U.S. even an average guy can have a collection other gun enthusiasts in the world (not the very rich) would really envy.
Here's a little test for example: Someone here on "The High Road" has an M1 for sale. He (or she) lives right there in your home town in the good old U.S.A. You've got the cash so you arrange to meet in a parking lot. It's nice if the two of you exchange a simple bill of sale, but the law doesn't require it. Everything's good. Everything's legal. Everyone's happy.
Ask some of our foreign members here how that transaction would be viewed in their countries. Maybe it would be just dandy.
Think about it.
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Silvanus, you would be surprised how many guns and gunshops we have in California. it is a common misconseption we don't have guns here or can't buy cetain types. I own a 3 digit number worth of them in CA.
I never did get to go to any gunshops in Europe. I was mostly in Italy but in more remote areas like Sardinia. Was in military for four years over there. I did see a gunshop in Rome but it was closed.
Still seems Switzerland is the best place to be in Europe for gun ownership. If I couldn't live in US, Switzerland likely would be my 2nd choice to call home.
I have even been tempted to give Protell, Swiss equivalent of USA's NRA, money before. I'd hate to see the liberal antigunners over there win any victories.
I never did get to go to any gunshops in Europe. I was mostly in Italy but in more remote areas like Sardinia. Was in military for four years over there. I did see a gunshop in Rome but it was closed.
Still seems Switzerland is the best place to be in Europe for gun ownership. If I couldn't live in US, Switzerland likely would be my 2nd choice to call home.
I have even been tempted to give Protell, Swiss equivalent of USA's NRA, money before. I'd hate to see the liberal antigunners over there win any victories.
I think the summary of the King in England wanting to starve the people so he could control them, and therefore he removed their guns is about as factually inaccurate as you get. Up to the second world war (1939 to 1945), people could own pretty much what they wanted. I had a 3" magnum 12 bore at the age of 13 in the 1960's and there and there wasn't even such a thing as a shotgun certificate
English people dont live by hunting - 55 million English on a piece of land you can drive across in 2 hours ? Nope it's spuds and not bunny rabbits.
England had a bill of rights (no not magna Cart) 100 years before the Americans and it was worded very much the same. England has the right to bear arms because anything that isn't illegal is legal - a right does not have to be given by the government. The Brits have as much a right to bear arms as the Americans and that is the situation right now. In fact the American right can be amended but the British right just 'is'. Think about it. Americans are blind to the English heritage they inherited and think they invented freedom - they didnt.
Americans should study this and then they will see that guns have been heavily restricted in the UK and can be heavily restricted in the US in just the same manner. When the last legal gun is handed in in the US, the 2nd amendment will still be in force. The constitution does not say the State cannot legislate to force you to have an expensive gun cabinet. - it doesn't say the State cannot force you to register each gun. It doesn't say they cant tax guns or ammo heavily. $4k per annum on a dedicated alarm line to the Police Station ? What does the 2nd say about that ? Replace all your inner doors with hardwood - what amendment forbids that requirement ? Look at the State laws on magazines etc etc etc
The US is just as easily controlled and restricted as the UK and it is quite possible and legal to have exactly the same draconian legislation as the UK. The constitution cannot stop it because the Constitution does not address regulation.
If you doubt what I am saying and you think the 2nd will protect you, examine the existing restrictions of some of the North East States
The 2nd will not protect gun rights and there is nothing to stop the States let alone the Feds, making the US like the UK. It's already almost happened in some States
Sure, the voters and their influence have held some of the line, but don't rely on it because the future is urban and the future is browner than whiter and the future population is not an identikit of a white idaho buffalo farmer
The times they are a changin' - but not yet, so I am enjoying my shooting and the present situation might even prevail until I hang up my rifle
Get real Americans, forget the 2nd as it wont save your guns - the threat is creeping State regulations and you need to focus on that.
I started owning guns in the UK in the 1960's and now I am a wild west man from washington State and all my buddies are cowboys. I have seen it from both sides and learned the law and the Constitution and all the 2nd amendment folk are going down with the ship - you might as well rely on the amendment repealing alcohol prohibition
English people dont live by hunting - 55 million English on a piece of land you can drive across in 2 hours ? Nope it's spuds and not bunny rabbits.
England had a bill of rights (no not magna Cart) 100 years before the Americans and it was worded very much the same. England has the right to bear arms because anything that isn't illegal is legal - a right does not have to be given by the government. The Brits have as much a right to bear arms as the Americans and that is the situation right now. In fact the American right can be amended but the British right just 'is'. Think about it. Americans are blind to the English heritage they inherited and think they invented freedom - they didnt.
Americans should study this and then they will see that guns have been heavily restricted in the UK and can be heavily restricted in the US in just the same manner. When the last legal gun is handed in in the US, the 2nd amendment will still be in force. The constitution does not say the State cannot legislate to force you to have an expensive gun cabinet. - it doesn't say the State cannot force you to register each gun. It doesn't say they cant tax guns or ammo heavily. $4k per annum on a dedicated alarm line to the Police Station ? What does the 2nd say about that ? Replace all your inner doors with hardwood - what amendment forbids that requirement ? Look at the State laws on magazines etc etc etc
The US is just as easily controlled and restricted as the UK and it is quite possible and legal to have exactly the same draconian legislation as the UK. The constitution cannot stop it because the Constitution does not address regulation.
If you doubt what I am saying and you think the 2nd will protect you, examine the existing restrictions of some of the North East States
The 2nd will not protect gun rights and there is nothing to stop the States let alone the Feds, making the US like the UK. It's already almost happened in some States
Sure, the voters and their influence have held some of the line, but don't rely on it because the future is urban and the future is browner than whiter and the future population is not an identikit of a white idaho buffalo farmer
The times they are a changin' - but not yet, so I am enjoying my shooting and the present situation might even prevail until I hang up my rifle
Get real Americans, forget the 2nd as it wont save your guns - the threat is creeping State regulations and you need to focus on that.
I started owning guns in the UK in the 1960's and now I am a wild west man from washington State and all my buddies are cowboys. I have seen it from both sides and learned the law and the Constitution and all the 2nd amendment folk are going down with the ship - you might as well rely on the amendment repealing alcohol prohibition
Shung
Member
Well, in Switzerland, and until december 2008 this was perfectly legal.
btw, I am pretty sure that a shop like www.lagardere.ch would make most of american gun shop customera drool... look at the full auto prices..
THE REAL advantage of the USA is the right to BEAR arms, in open carry or concealed carry.. we lost that 20 years ago.
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