Gun Snobs lighten up!

[Maverick223]

Because someone spent $10,000 on their shotgun, they automatically have the skill to use it? Ha!

only the poor folks who are jealous of the guys spending big bucks on a gun think like this.....look at the sporting clays/skeet/trap winners. Do you see any of them shooting a pump they bought from Dicks?

That's just low, and utterly incorrect. An expensive firearm makes someone a rifleman as much as a costly automobile makes an individual a race car driver.
[shakes head in disbelief that I am looking at a comment at THR]

 

[mustang_steve]

This is typical in any enthusiast realm....you'll hear this in bicycling forums as well "nobody can be fast on a crucible-brazed Chicago Schwinn, they're tanks"....yeah, at my fastest (time trials, I could average 34mph over 15 miles...), and I still got my butt handed to me in a 35-mile event by a 90 year old man, on a crucible-brazed Chicago Schwinn. That old man was a former US Olympic cyclist...and he told me that Schwinn was "like his race bike, with exception of having gear selection".

Never underestimate the power of someone that's so familiar with their kit that it literally functions as if it was part of their own body.

 

[Rebel2345]

only the poor folks who are jealous of the guys spending big bucks on a gun think like this.....look at the sporting clays/skeet/trap winners. Do you see any of them shooting a pump they bought from Dicks?

post the name of the tournaments that she won. I can see if they are sanctioned ATA events and can see what class she is in. That makes a world of difference. If you want street credibility and want to brag about how John/Jane Doe with his/her $500 shotgun is beating guys with guns costing 10x more, then you better have "proof" to back it up. The Grand American just wrapped up a couple weeks ago....where were the $500 shotguns in the winner circles??

Her name is Erin Danhausen.

http://www.shootata.com/aim/pdfs/results/09AIMGCResults.pdf

https://www.railstation.org/usashoo...aspx?PlayerID=37424&GameTypeID=16&SeasonID=16

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/07/26/national-junior-olympic-shooting-championships-shotgun-report/

I couldn't tell you about any of her local matches, but I can bet she wouldn't be at these national matches if she wasn't winning them.

 

[LibShooter]

.....look at the sporting clays/skeet/trap winners. Do you see any of them shooting a pump they bought from Dicks?

Comparing what pros or world-class shooters use to the gear used by those of us who shoot for fun misses the point.

I've never shot one, but I'm willing to bet $20,000 shotguns shoot better than $750 shotguns. But that's not the point. $750 shotguns shoot better than I do, so that's good enough.

I'm willing to bet no one here has ever missed a bunch of clays with his Gander Mt. Special that he would have hit with an "UberShot 20K."

Shoot what you got until you make the Olympic Team.

 

[Cap'n Jack Burntbeard]

I see the beauty in cheap guns, they are the true equalizer.

 

[oneounceload]

Comparing what pros or world-class shooters use to the gear used by those of us who shoot for fun misses the point.

I've never shot one, but I'm willing to bet $20,000 shotguns shoot better than $750 shotguns. But that's not the point. $750 shotguns shoot better than I do, so that's good enough.

I'm willing to bet no one here has ever missed a bunch of clays with his Gander Mt. Special that he would have hit with an "UberShot 20K."

That would depend on a variety of factors - After about 8-10K on a sporting gun, the cost comes from cosmetics. The reason you see Perazzi in the winner's circle around the world is because the guns are built to last, the gun can be custom ordered for a perfect fit and balance at no additional cost, and the balance and handling are second to none. Even if you are not a comp shooter, having something that really works well does make the experience more enjoyable and can lead to scoring a few extra birds, especially over a gun that doesn't fit quite right.

What I tend to see on the forum and elsewhere isn't gun snobbery by rich folks, but reverse snobbery/jealousy by folks who can't afford a nice shotgun and feel the need to slam someone who can. Of course, many of those folks also couldn't appreciate what went into making something like a Fabbri, let alone the engraving by someone like Fracassi or Pedersoli.......

 

[Mac's Precision]

Well. Opinions are like belly buttons....everyone has one. Here is mine.

There is no need to be snobbish about inexpensive guns. There is a reason to be critical of poor quality guns.

Let me clarify my comment. There is every reason to encourage shooters to begin someplace. I wholeheartedly believe that there is merit in starting with a minimal investment to see if you are going to like it. Now that being said I don't believe a person has to start with poor quality junk. There are deals to be had on previously owned firearms. I would rather see a guy start learning to shoot with a well worn S&W model 10 M&P in .38 special bought from a pawn shop for $200.00 as opposed to starting with a NEW Hi Point.

Starting with a well worn gun that started life as a quality piece is better in my opinion than working with something that was never worth much even as a paper weight. Struggling to learn with something that doesn't shoot well in the hands of a skilled shooter will only serve to frustrate a novice. Poor fit and finish, heavy trigger pulls, marginal barrels, poor quality sights, inconsistent lock up, as well as zero resale value are all reasons to not drop money on junk.

This doesn't mean that the new shooter will be better served by a $1000 dollar firearm than a $200.00 one. It simply suggests that a gun that started as a quality piece will likely be loose...and sloppy...but likely won't have the issues of a "cheap gun". Not to mention that a working firearm of reputable manufacture will retain a reasonable trade value should he decide to upgrade. Most gun shops won't give you much if any for cheap make weapons. Many won't take them at all. I wouldn't. However, well worn quality guns will normally always be taken on trade...and get you something. A used Remington, Winchester, Marlin, S&W, Colt, Ruger to name a few...have to be in pretty horrible shape to be worth as little as a traded Hi Point.

Given $200.00 and a month of visiting pawn shops, reading the local paper, talking to gunsmiths, etc. I could find any number of used S&W revolvers, Remington 870's, used Rem 700 hunting rifles and a boat load of various .22LR guns. For $200 they might not be pretty...but for all the ugly they are...many will outshoot many a shooter. I have seen many old revolvers, shotguns and rifles that were WHIPPED but still shot great.

There are lots of police department returns available at reasonable prices, many military surplus rifles (the K31 comes to mind) that can be had for less than $200 and will get you shooting....and quite well at that.

Just because you only have $200 to play with doesn't mean you have to resort to cheap new stuff when there is inexpensive used quality weapons. I personally have 3 Rem 870's, 2 S&W 38 K frames, a ruger MK1, a 10/22 and a Winchester 70...that were ALL under $200. All are fully functional.. in reasonable condition and shoot better than 90% of the folks that will ever shoot them.

I have a list of guns I don't work on....Hi point is on that list. I won't touch them.

Cheers
Mac.

 

[Ike R]

Watched an old gentleman in torn wranglers and a faded Khaki shirt with holes all in it one day at a range here in Beaumont, Texas win every round of trap with a single shot Sears and Roebuck 12 gauge.

Could throw 3 clays in the air and he would bust them like clockwork and didn't even look like he worked hard. Was told by an employee that he was once a world champion trap and clay shooter several times over and he was also hell on paper with an ancient lever action .22.

Unbelievably humble gentleman who actually had the "hard core" guys clear off one of the bays so that he could teach me how to be smoother and faster with my own single shot 12. Every man there holding a 7 to 9k shotgun knew exactly who he was and knew that they stood little chance no matter what he was shooting. He was the first person I ever heard say " Slow is smooth, smooth is fast" and this was long before the movie Shooter ever existed. He taught me that I was left eye dominant, and told me the best gun ever was a pump action 28 gauge he "usta hab' when he was a kid my age, ( I was 13 at the time)

Never got the hang of 3 clays at once, but I shot 186 and 185 back to back one day at that same range a few years later. Won a tournament there in College with a pump action 28 I bought from my suitemate and used that money to buy a Mosin and an Enfield.

Guys name was Mr. Jack,and I am not saying he won championships with that singleshot, I am willing to bet that he would agree that the gun is only as good as the shooter once you get to a certain point. When I hear the word "Pull" I think of that old man.

 

[Rebel2345]

Hey look, more gun snobbery from another thread!

leave your SUV parked in the same place with the doors unlocked. they will soon return it when they discover they've stolen an RIA.

 

[oneounceload]

Yeah. I'd probably shoot clays a lot more often except for the fact that I can't stand the snobishness that seems to go along with the trap shooting / sporting clays / skeet shooting scene. It seems that unless you dress like the shooting equivalent of a golf nerd, drive a lexus, and own a shotgun that costs more than my house, you just don't belong on their ranges.

Personally, I step to the line with my trusty Mossberg 500, and endure the scowls of those who feel I don't belong.

Hmmmmm, never saw that attitude at ANY clay club I have been to in over 2 dozen states - maybe it's you? Most folks are more than polite and willing to let you try their gun, providing you don't act like a jerk or act unsafe..........

He's a big trap shooting type, and once told me that he owns an $80,000 trap gun

And what brand was that?

I had the privilege of meeting Dan Orlich when I lived in the Reno area - he shoots a Ljutic single and a Ljutic double for trap - both are serial number 1. Today, those guns cost a lot of money, but if you are a serious shooter of American trap, they are one of a few brands that get considered for use.

Seems more like money jealousy by folks who can't afford something nicer than what they have.......................

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

We are having a serious disconnect of logic in this thread:

1. So and so great shooter can beat lesser shooters with a piece of crap shotgun, and;

2. I own a piece of crap shotgun, therefore;

3. My piece of crap shotgun is better than a Perazzi or whatever, and by inference, I am a better shooter than anybody who would spend more than I deem appropriate for a shotgun, and therefore I am superior to most shooters (no matter how skilled).


Really, some of you need to back up and take a look at the best shooters out there. Sure, they can beat lesser shooters using junk guns, but when tournament time comes, you can bet they will be using the best they can afford, and in top tier shotgun events, that means Perazzi, not Mossberg.

The best equipment gives them that little advantage they need against competitors who are on their level, period.

It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian.

 

[Hurricane]

Skill > Gear (assuming your gear is fully operational, not faulty)

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian.

It certainly is. Back in the very early 70s my brother,3 friends and I all got into pass shooting doves,wood ducks and blue winged teal. Shooting in an open corn field the action was VERY fast and usually high altitude. One of our friends used a Spanish double barrel in 16 gauge. He simply did not miss! He would quickly limit out (18 doves at the time). He cleanly took blue winged teal at distances nobody but he believed he could hit. No it wasn't trap shooting but it was every bit as challenging. He was just a better "Indian" with his cheap Spanish double than a lot are with high dollar boom sticks.

 

[sernv99]

Her name is Erin Danhausen.

http://www.shootata.com/aim/pdfs/res...MGCResults.pdf

https://www.railstation.org/usashoot...16&SeasonID=16

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/07/26/n...hotgun-report/

I couldn't tell you about any of her local matches, but I can bet she wouldn't be at these national matches if she wasn't winning them.

she is classed as a junior shooter, competing against other juniors who most don't own a Krieghoff or a Perazzi or other severak $k gun....where is she beating shooters with guns costing a half year's salary as you had stated?

Going down to the local range on a weekend afternoon and beating someone shooting a Krieghoff for a couple rounds of trap does not qualify as "evidence".

Go to a real shoot...for trap/skeet/spoting clays, go to some of the big shoots around the country....no one is in the winner's circle with a $500 shotgun like your neighbor's daughter's gun. That's your proof.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Go to a real shoot

You mean where sponsors decide what gun a competitor uses?

 

[Rebel2345]

she is classed as a junior shooter, competing against other juniors who most don't own a Krieghoff or a Perazzi or other severak $k gun....where is she beating shooters with guns costing a half year's salary as you had stated?

Going down to the local range on a weekend afternoon and beating someone shooting a Krieghoff for a couple rounds of trap does not qualify as "evidence".

Go to a real shoot...for trap/skeet/spoting clays, go to some of the big shoots around the country....no one is in the winner's circle with a $500 shotgun like your neighbor's daughter's gun. That's your proof.

You know what every junior class shooter is using, for a fact huh? And you know what every person who's ever won a trap shoot in history has used? I don't see ANY proof. I don't doubt for a second there are people out there that would buy a $5-10,000 shotgun for their kid when they are competing at a national level, just because they think like you. That an expensive shotgun will keep them from missing those one or two clays that might cost them the win, when the only real difference is a big bank account. Skill is skill, money doesn't buy that. Practice and consistency does. If a firearm has never failed you, why blow money to replace whats not broken?

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

Here's what I say.

You get what you pay for.

What a tool.

 

[Scratchy]

If it goes bang it will do the trick

 

[LibShooter]

Good lord, people. Why all the hatin'?

Nobody seriously thinks the next Olympic Gold Medal is going to be won by somebody shooting gradpaw's old single shot. Folks in that level of competition use guns that cost as much as a house.

However, a lot more folks have a lot more fun shooting with guns that cost a lot less than a single mortgage payment.

I shoot some clays with my grandpa's old Stevens SxS. I miss about as many as I hit. My wife's cousins are really into skeet shooting... they almost never miss. One of them has a $12,000 gun that brings him a lot of joy. He still drives a 1988 Suzuki to help pay for the shotgun. He doesn't make fun of my 311. I don't make fun of his old Samurai. He lets me shoot his fancy gun sometimes. It shoots really sweet. With it, I miss about as many as I hit. When he shoots my Stevens, he almost never misses. We both have a great time, though.

Yep, it's not the gun, its the shooter. But a great shooter can get a lot more from a great gun than a mediocre shooter can.

And BTW, leave Erin Whats-her-name alone. She can shoot whatever she wants to. She may or may not have a cheap gun now, but if and when she wins an Olympic medal, it will be with an expensive gun.

 

[bushmaster1313]

The real cost of being a good trap shooter is paying for the shells and the targets.

Having a nice equipment turns out to be a small part of the cost of getting good.

Same as golf, tennis, skiing and most other sports.

 

[Dookie]

for fun I like to shoot clay pigeons, this is in no way a competitive action, just a bunch of friends with a hand thrower. I use a Mossberg 835 because it is what I own, I also shoot my friends Stoeger 2000 and 870, we all swap and have fun. I am a decent shot with any of the shotguns.
One day I went into a gun store and checked out their O/U selection. I picked up a Ruger and I could tell instantly that I would shoot better with that shotgun than any of the ones I had previously shot with. As I moved up the ladder in quality to about the 3-4k guns they kept feeling better. The higher quality guns have better balance and feel, I could tell that without even shooting.

I still have a Mossberg, but if I could afford a nice O/U I would do it.

I have a problem with people who feel that just because a person has something nice, say a custom built Cooper or a $3k 1911 is a snob and feels they are more important. It could be that maybe the person really wanted a quality piece and saved for it. That is what I do. I would rather have 1 Benelli Super Black Eagle than 2 Mossbergs and 2 870's. Doesn't mean I am a snob, I just know how to save.

 

[Cel]

I think we have strayed far away from the original INTENT of the OP. This was supposed to be about a NEW shooter who could ONLY afford a C9 being ridiculed about it and therefore giving him a bad impression. If you can afford a more expensive gun then by all means buy it. If you have advice to give to someone about 'upgrading' in the future then do it. Everybody can't start out with the best gun. They work with what they have.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

I read a post recently when a young man was shooting a " HI-POINT C9 " at the range. He was so ridiculed by other shooters that he got rid of the gun. Just because he could only afford the C9 he should of been put down like that is asinine. Any gun owner that treats a fellow gun owner like that is only biting off their nose to spite their face, is a jerk & is doing much more harm to the sport of shooting & gun ownership in general.

i would never belittle someone on the range due to their choice of guns. that's rude, obnoxious, and asking for a punch.


besides, that's what internet gun forums are for

 

[coloradokevin]

Hmmmmm, never saw that attitude at ANY clay club I have been to in over 2 dozen states - maybe it's you? Most folks are more than polite and willing to let you try their gun, providing you don't act like a jerk or act unsafe..........

Well, I've never had trouble getting along with anyone at any other type of range I've ever been to, and 25 years of shooting, competition, and law enforcement experience would suggest that I know how to safely handle a firearm.

I'm not trying to suggest that eveyrone is a snob at every trap/skeet range, but I've certainly picked up that vibe at some places in the past. I've still managed to have decent conversations with everyone there, even as they talked as if they were better than me simply by virtue of the fact that they had a fancy gun (point of fact: many were better than me due to the fact that they were more practiced and skilled in that discipline of shooting. I bet they'd have beat me with my own gun, given a round or two to get used to it). But, the gun still doesn't make the shooter.

Also, in fairness to trap shooters, I've also had a number of folks who've stood by and provided helpful coaching for these shotgun events, and some have provided great advice on picking a first trap gun.

I suppose my point in mentioning any of this is simply to emphasize how the attitudes of the minority of snobish shooters might tend to turn new shooters off to the sport. Does a new shooter really need to feel like he/she will have to throw down $8,000 before he/she can enjoy trap shooting? I doubt it, since I've had a heck of a lot of fun with my field gun (which was at one point my do-all pheasant, deer, trap, home defense shotgun). Once again though, I'm not a tournament shooter in shotgun sports!

And what brand was that?

The 80K gun? I sincerely haven't got a clue, but I'll ask him the next time I see him. For all I know the guy could have been blowing smoke, but I didn't really ask any questions about it because I'm not really interested in an $80,000 gun. As I said, I'm a low-bling kind of guy, and eighty grand on a scattergun suggests some serious bling-bling.

We are having a serious disconnect of logic in this thread:

1. So and so great shooter can beat lesser shooters with a piece of crap shotgun, and;

2. I own a piece of crap shotgun, therefore;

3. My piece of crap shotgun is better than a Perazzi or whatever, and by inference, I am a better shooter than anybody who would spend more than I deem appropriate for a shotgun, and therefore I am superior to most shooters (no matter how skilled).


Really, some of you need to back up and take a look at the best shooters out there. Sure, they can beat lesser shooters using junk guns, but when tournament time comes, you can bet they will be using the best they can afford, and in top tier shotgun events, that means Perazzi, not Mossberg.

The best equipment gives them that little advantage they need against competitors who are on their level, period.

Larry, I agree with you that the top-tier competitors will often benefit from any little advantage they can get. This is no different than the swimsuit "science" that exists for Olympic swimmers, or the $20,000 road bikes that are ridden by the likes of Lance Armstrong.

But, I think that people are trying to suggest that many of us will never realize a substantial difference in our scores/performance by buying a top-tier $20K firearm.

Personally, I KNOW I'm not that great at trap/skeet/sporting clays, though I've been thinking of throwing down $1,000-1,500 sometime for a gun to field in these events. I'd be willing to bet that most of us won't ever exceed the capabilities of a gun in that price range, though some folks will always choose to buy the best, just to own the best. And, some will legitimately become skilled enough to need the better equipment.

In the past I've endured the ribbing/snickering that goes along with bringing a cheapy Mossberg 500 to a nice trap range. I don't mind the joking, as I have a fairly thick skin, and don't really care what anyone thinks of my guns. But, in the "snobbery" department, I once heard a guy remarking to his lady friend that people "shouldn't even be allowed to show up on this range with crappy guns like those". Now, my Mossberg 500 certainly isn't the "elite" of shotguns, but it is perfectly clean, safe, and functional.

I also don't expect that I'll beat a great trap shooter with any gun, though I'll bet they could beat me with my gun, even if I was using their high-end gun. Similarly, they might be handicapped against me if we worked our way over to a rifle range. Yet again, the shooter makes all the difference.

Still, I'll concede that if two shooters of nearly identical ability were to shoot a competition against each other, the equipment might be more of a factor. With that said, I hope everyone will leave any judgmental attitudes at home, and enjoy their time at whichever range they choose to shoot at, with whatever guns they choose to shoot

 

[oneounceload]

Nobody seriously thinks the next Olympic Gold Medal is going to be won by somebody shooting gradpaw's old single shot. Folks in that level of competition use guns that cost as much as a house.

Typically, the Perazzi runs around 8-10 - not cheap, but not the price of a house (even in this market) - then again those are built to last, are built to the requirements of the shooter, which gives him/her every advantage. Kim Rhodes took Olympic Gold at 16 with her Perazzi - she wouldn't have made it with a Mossberg. To say that makes her a gun snob is ludicrous. It still sounds more like jealousy on the part of many who can't fathom why someone would spend, in their mind, a lot of money for a shotgun when in their opinion, "a Mossberg is good enough to get the job done".

While my Mini Cooper can certainly last 500 miles at Daytona, it isn't going to be in the winner's circle. There's a reason some folks buy $100 pawn shop specials and some buy $10,000 specialty target guns - some want to be able to throw them in the back of a truck and others want to bring home the gold in competition.

ColordoKevin

Next time, try shooting sporting clays - we're a nicer bunch of folks than those trap shooters anyway - but you better be able to take a ribbing when you flub the easy shot....