Gun Superstore? Why Not?

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Any idea how much the inventory would cost for a deal like that? That's a lot of cash, not sitting in the bank making money for you, but sitting in a warehouse, gathering dust, and costing you money every day it sits there.
 
Bud's isn't the only store doing the "online volume sales" thing, btw. But it does take a lot of capital to get started.
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That's for sure. Labor alone is a lot. Last time I talked to these guys they were working two shifts a day, packing and shipping orders that were taken two weeks prior. They also have a retail outlet.

Anyone know what Bud's prices are at their retail store? Curious if they are the same as online.
 
That's what nice about America if you like the idea you can unharness the power of your entrepreneurial side and do it. So, open one. Just make sure you do all of your research ahead of time. Good luck.
 
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We have a "small" local shop that says they markup all guns only $40... (and I believe them). They have been around for >30 years, sell fishing tackle, bait, etc., so that is not their one and only revenue stream. I have bought maybe seven or eight there over the course of many years. A much newer, ''nicer" shop just a few blocks away routinely will have a same/make model at >$50 higher. That "upscale" shop handles some of the "classier/nicer" flavors".

Even so, they obviously cannot stock their shelves with Wallyworld/Lipseys prices. They pretty much do compete with good on-line prices. They are not getting rich selling guns.

it simply is all about VOLUME stock purchasing, VOLUME selling, and no small shop like that can attract enough VOLUME foot traffic in modestly sized cities to really do what a wallyworld can do.
BIG city brick-n-mortar stores would carry much higher overhead costs... and not a lot of folks in BIG cities would not "drive across town", or even know you were there unless you are a nation wide 'chain'... how it is

they used to carry a lot of S&W, Beretta, Browning... but for a long time now they do mostly Taurus, Charter, Heritage Arms, Hi-Point, stuff like that (but do generally have at least some Rugers in stock). Absent high VOLUME, quick turnover, small shop cannot pony up the cash for inventory that doesn't move fast, especial real-nice-stuff at what real-nice-cost is

You can saturate a small market demographic quicker than you might suppose, especially with the upscale stuff

which is why there is Bud's on-line

most of the "big" internet people do NOT really stock big either; they are mostly mail order houses, you know

pause and ponder how much CASH it really takes to stock up a fat inventory
say 2000 rifles, 1000 shotguns and 2000 handguns... that would be over $1.5M cash if at only >$300 a pop, more likely $2M-$3M cash outlay for inventory
"if you have to ask what it costs, you can't afford it"

sad but true
 
That's a lot of cash, not sitting in the bank making money for you,
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.....ummm have you seen the interest rates lately, there is no such thing as money in the bank making money for you...unless you think $20 on $5000/ 9 months is good investment:banghead:
 
Yes to Whittakers and they sell through the mail also.

Anyone know what Bud's prices are at their retail store?
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I was told by the sales guy over the telephone if I drove to the store to buy the same gun if would cost a little more there. Toss in gas and time.... He said it was clearly cheaper to ship a gun to a local dealer and handle the paperwork there.

I bet that sales at Buds and Whittakers combined are easily a whole percentage point of the total gun sales in the country.

As far as Bud telling you his business plans, that is probaby stretching it a bit. Heck, I knew of one shop in my area that was going to build a new larger store a year before it was supposed to happen.... what happened? It didn't. They couldn't get financing. Retail stores are expensive to operate which is why the % markup on guns is so important for them and normal high volume is probably not enough without other related sales at a much higher markup.
 
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BUD

The gun buisness is hard just like anything you do for a job.Whitakers is a huge store and I would say Whitakers and Buds do a little more buisness than some of you know. Buds does have an actual store. They are building a new indoor range that is going to be state of the art and have a huge retail space. All other locations will be combined to this one location with the Paris store/location is now under new ownership and still a retail store and indoor range. Hope this helps get some facts straight.
 
[/QUOTE]So we got to thinking, how come there isn't some giant store that takes less of a markup but actually moves guns and makes money on volume?
[/QUOTE]

Funny, that is exactly what I planned to do for a career.:D
 
Where is that store LS240? Any decent price/selection stores in South FL. I just see rip off stores for the most part. Most have no inventory and want you to order a gun without seeing it. I don't mind if it's a Glock or something I have handled before. But I would like to see a new model that I have never handled or laid eyes on, before laying 5 hundred to a thousand dollars on.
 
How big a store does it take to make the cutoff for superstore?

greentopteam.jpg


"2008 Winchester Ammunition National Dealer of the Year"


About 1/2 fishing and 1/2 guns, with about 4000 guns the last time I looked.

The March 2nd list of used guns is 17 pages.

www.cpostores.com/greentophuntfish/graphics/guns.pdf

John
 
Traveling man

When I lived in Brooklyn N.Y. where there were seven or eight gun shops,my brother inlaw and I would drive thirty five miles out to Long Island.There we would shop Edlemans,The gun shop and get discounted prices compared to back home.This was during rush hour,sooo I guess the diference in price and variety of mdse was worth the trip.
 
I'm pretty sure LS240 & I shop at the same place. Guys there are buying. It can easily take 20-30 minutes to get up to the counter. I wouldn't be suprised if he's one of if not the highest volume FFL in the state.

For example, I recently picked up a (new in box) S&W 610 for $650. Before that it was a NAA 22 with the holster grip (also NIB) for $208. The list goes on.

The business model works when you live in a conservative area with a lot of shooters. :D
 
Sort of reminds me of the corner grocery store back in the 1950's. They got gobbled up by the supermarkets who sold cheaper and made up for that in volume. The consumer came out on top in terms of price and selection even though many lamented the change. Same with the "family farm" being beaten out by the big farms that produce crops less expensively.The small, high priced gun shop is very likely becoming a dinosaur in the face of online sellers and the mega stores that can sell for less. I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.
 
I'd rather pay a little more at a smaller shop, and then if they don't have something drive 5 or 10 miles to the next one and see what they have... if there is something I must have, shop around online and order it thru a local shop... pay them the ffl fee...

I'd worry that a GunMart might put the little guys outta business, then years later go out of business itself... then its drive 50 miles to buy even ammo...

I like shops that are small to medium in size, who know me personally as a loyal customer, and are family owned to ensure continuity.

For what its worth, it seems like when a big dog becomes the only dog, he can usually do what he wants. so prices might go up once there is no competition. Greentops used list looked a little high, especially if you compare to J&G sales, SOG, etc...
 
cbrgater,

I think the best way to answer you question is to ask what gun you were in the market for? Let's start from there and ask what would be a fair amount for the dealer to make.

You need to consider that the gun might sit on the shelf for six months or longer. I just sold a Browning BLR in 308 today that I have had in my store 8 months. I had it marked down to $700 from $750. I paid $672.98 plus shipping.

So, I maybe made $20 and I have to keep the records for twenty years. But out of that $20 I have to pay the credit card fee which will be about $25, so I spent almost $700 to have a gun in my store for eight months in which I lost $5 to allow people to fondle a gun that they try to find for $10 cheaper online.

People have been able to come in and handle it, feel it, work the action, etc. for eight months. At BUD's, they pay for it and it's theirs. Go BUD's.
 
GJgo said:
I'm pretty sure LS240 & I shop at the same place. Guys there are buying. It can easily take 20-30 minutes to get up to the counter. I wouldn't be suprised if he's one of if not the highest volume FFL in the state.

For example, I recently picked up a (new in box) S&W 610 for $650. Before that it was a NAA 22 with the holster grip (also NIB) for $208. The list goes on.

The business model works when you live in a conservative area with a lot of shooters. :D
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Yes indeed. I live in Grand Junction as well. Jimmy's a great guy. And you think 20-30 minutes is bad, the first few times I went in there was right after the election and it took 2+ hours just to get up to the counter! As for that NAA, when did you buy it? I remember one of the last times I was in there there was somebody next to me at the counter buying one of those. I chatted with him for a moment as well. Wonder if that was you?

Anyways, for those wondering, the shop I'm talking about is in Grand Junction, Colorado. As for making more money from pawn, it's entirely possible. I'm sure the profit margins are higher considering Jimmy only makes $10 per gun. I talked to his son when I was at the last gun show and he said his Dad sells guns more as a hobby than as a business. I guess he just really loves guns and loves helping people get the guns they want. From what I understand he's retired from his previous career and just keeps the shop open because he can, not because he has to. That business model probably won't work for everyone, but I'm sure glad it does for him. I feel extremely lucky to have what surely must be one of the best shops in the country only minutes away from home.

Edit: Just a couple anecdotes about price. Last April I was in there and asked if they had any Kel Tec SU16s in stock and to my surprise he brought out a new SU16C, and a PLR16, both of which were about as rare as hen's teeth at that time. The prices? $475 for the SU and $435 for the PLR. That was at least $100 cheaper than I could find them anywhere online at the time, and I still have yet to see prices that cheap. Also got my Father's Henry Survival for about $20 less than at Impact Guns.
 
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matthew.g.george said:
I'd rather pay a little more at a smaller shop, and then if they don't have something drive 5 or 10 miles to the next one and see what they have... if there is something I must have, shop around online and order it thru a local shop... pay them the ffl fee...

I'd worry that a GunMart might put the little guys outta business, then years later go out of business itself... then its drive 50 miles to buy even ammo...

I like shops that are small to medium in size, who know me personally as a loyal customer, and are family owned to ensure continuity.

For what its worth, it seems like when a big dog becomes the only dog, he can usually do what he wants. so prices might go up once there is no competition. Greentops used list looked a little high, especially if you compare to J&G sales, SOG, etc...
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me too

in the last 30 years here we have had at least 9 gun shops within easy reach here, come and go... mostly go
I always look to "home" 1st, and never regretted an extra $20 or $40 for keeping it "at home"
but it never once stopped me from looking elsewhere, nor from buying elsewhere, either

the place I like best, they know me by 1st name (but call me "Mister", even though I try to discourage that).. probably because they know if I pick it up and really check it out for longer than six seconds, only one one of two things is going happen.. I am going to say "ring it up", or I am going to say "is John, the owner, in ?... I will do "X" $$$, will he ? .. and they know I expect a prompt yes or no answer, because it is a one time offer, and no feelings hurt either way, no matter the answer.. and they know I will be back, either way, looking at other stuff

they don't mind a bit if I say, "just dropped by to see if anything new on the shelf", and they let me alone to wander about and look.. never try to "pitch" me something
they also know I am about half deaf, but they don't make fun of me, or get annoyed, they just talk a little bit louder
even the young help behind the counter will wave me on over, when I walk in the door, if they just happen to have a real nice used S&W k-frame revolver come in
(maybe just because I bought 3 of the last 4 that did, heckififknow)

and if the young guy behind the counter does the hollystupid wrist-flip-snap cylinder shut, and I say "no disrespect, but you really shouldn't do that", he don't get mad at the damn senile old fool, just asks why
and if I have them look for something I have not found but want, and they find it for me, price known up front, they know I pay 100% cash up front before they order it, and they know I carry a plastic card w/ my FBI approved fingerprint on it, no transfer issues, and they know I will not keep calling to find out if it came in, they just call me when it does
and they pretty much know that when I do that, it comes in looking a lot like something you don't see just every day

you cannot buy any of that for $$$ at WallyWorld, Cabela's, Dick's, Basspro, Able Ammo, Reeds, nor even at Bud's or Collector's in Houston
Jim Supica's used-to-be-online is the only web place that I have ever been that even tried to do all that (real nice lady always answered their phone calls)

didn't stop me from buying from 'em all, though

but I still drop by that local shop 1st

PS
it's a pawn shop, too
started by an honest ex-cop, and run honest
 
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Overhead sucks:

Rent, electricity, other utilities, telephone expenses, wages, employer's tax, property tax, inventory tax, business insurance, health insurance, employee theft, customer theft, other fraud, professional fees, incoming freight charges, outgoing freight charges, catalog advertising, magazine advertising, www advertising & presence, credit card processing fees, returned check fees, cost from human mistakes (shipped the wrong item, etc.), operating equipment costs, software costs, packing material costs, and geeze, I've got to be missing a few.

As others have mentioned, there is also the issue of having competitors who are able to buy in higher volume getting better prices and other benefits meant to help offset some of the above, like co-op advertising and "performance rebates."

I've run an (unrelated to guns) specialty store for years. From comments I hear regularly, I think the average customer simply has no clue as to the extent of these costs. For instance, a guy spends $500 and makes a remark to the effect of "See, you just made $500." I never have the heart to tell the guy, "Well, actually, sir, after paying for the items you purchased and my average monthly overhead, I just made a total of 5 percent. But then you paid by credit card, which costs me 2.5%. So I actually just cleared $12.50." So, instead of outlining the reality, I just smile and say something like "And we appreciate it, thanks very much for your business."

Some months you sell more, and your average overhead goes down. Those are the good months. Unfortunately, the opposite happens in other months. I can't imagine the gun business is substantially different.


-Matt
 
There is a gun superstore. It's called Wal-Mart. They have a hard time selling guns at a profit even though they're the cheapest place around.

You're currently looking at the very reason for the demise of many businesses. The internet.
 
Don't forgot that large volume buyers, like Bud's, get better prices from the distributers. That allows Bud's to lower their retail prices a bit.
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Bud's drop ships a lot of their items, which means they are not laying out the cash for inventory.

Inventory carrying costs can be high. Want to sell Kimber's and get the Master Dealer pricing? Or Browning, or Beretta? Most will require you to buy a large initial order to the tune of upwards of $25,000..........A small store typically doesn't have that kind of cash. Then, as mentioned above, their is the overhead.

Around here, a decent location for retail is running around $10/SF - a 1500 SF store will then cost 15,000 right off, let alone taxes, insurances, licenses, fees, salaries, buiness loans, etc......
 
I'm the OP.

Basically, what I gather from you guys is the reason people don't do it is because of capital. If someone had like $5 million, opened a big store + internet, would that be a good idea in a good sized city?
 
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Bud's drop ships a lot of their items, which means they are not laying out the cash for inventory.
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I've started hearing this over the last couple of months. Where did it originate?
 
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