Gun Test: "If matters got that bad".

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not sure how on-topic this is, but I really appreciate these sorts of memories.

I'm pretty young - born in '84 and headed off to law school. I'm a luddite at heart - I do all the service on the family cars/motorcycles/engines/etc. I use iron sights instead of optics. I try to get a broad understanding of simple tasks that were actually useful before everything became professionalized and specialized.

Anyway, when people ask why I'm studying law, I posit this idea: In this crazy litigious world of specialization, the ability to wrangle through the ridiculous bureaucracy of the "system" seems like it provides a similar skill set that the yeoman farmer/hunter/homesteader of the past needed to be self sufficient.

I'm not happy about it, but it seems like manipulating the system is sort of a meta-skill-set that has replaced the jack-of-all trades, self-sufficiency of the past.

...But then what does happen when the system breaks down? Hopefully I will have more self-sufficiency type skills than your average professional but the reality is that until the breakdown (and it will happen whether tomorrow or in 100,000 years) we are living in a world of professionalization that separates man from a certain essence of the rugged individual.

Way off topic, but interesting ideas and I appreciate your thoughts, sm...
 
Great Thread

Steve My Ole' Friend-

Yep, being born in the late 40's myself I enjoyed those times too; when
life was soooo much simpler. My first gun was an old Winchester single-
shot bolt-action model 67-A .22 caliber rifle bought NIB from Rockett's
Hardware in Brighton, AL* for $18.50. Shot that thing for many years,
bringing down birds, squirrels, and mistletow alike. Come winter, we
always had a coal burning fire in the fireplace. That reminds me, a
ton of coal also wa $18.00 back then (1955); and most families
enjoyed quality time, away from 'puters, television, ect. The drug
scene was not even heard of back then; at least in my neck of the
old woods. In 1965 at age 18, I joined Uncle Sams U. S. Army, and
never looked back. Times quickly changed, from the "good life" to
military life taking me far from home. The only mistake I can see
that I made was when my tour of duty ended; I did not re-enlist.
I have thought about that one for a very long, long time; as it
was hard leaving my comrades in arms behind.

* FootNote: For those that don't know- Brighton, AL was considered
the halfway point by railway officals when riding the "Silver Crescent"
from New York to New Orleans.
 
Last edited:
I can relate to this, even though I'm a little 19-yr old city boy. Too many people from my generation--and the generation before it--have grown spoiled and soft. I'm the only one out of my friends and all who doesnt have his mom and dad pay his bills. I seem to be the only one with real physical discipline and the ability to rely on myself when needed. People are too used to convenience nowadays; the fact that people chow down on McDonalds before suing drug companies because their metabolite pills they bought didnt make their fat asses burn off those 1/2-pound cheeseburgers is just a burning example
 
This is one reason I love my dad so much. Born in 1976 I still learned survival skills. Because of the things he made me learn I can shoot guns, fish/hunt, process my own game, tie flies, know enough to be dangerous as a carpenter/plumber/electrician, cook, build a snow cave, sew well enough to mend pants though you won't see me trying to make cloths unless really desperate, cut firewood efficiently (without power tools), build a fire without matches, drive off road safely, and many other skills.
 
Yeah, yur raht!

In the midst of a disaster you have to find humor wherever you can.

The biggest giggle I took away from Katrina was watching no less than four of my neighbors, the morning after the storm, standing in the middle of the street furiously pounding on their cell phones!:what: The looks of panic were priceless!!:evil:

All of us old GIs (I was born in '55.) just sort of kicked back, taking deep breaths, glad to be alive. We knew it'd be a few days before the comm net would be back up. You've got to have some patience!;)

I've always felt the need to maintain my tools and passed that on to my kids: Airline Boy, Duh Marine and, especially, Daughter the Space Engineer. They all know how to "bend wrenches" and ask others when they don't know.:D
 
I was born in the early 1980s, but due to some permissive grandparents who my brother and I stayed several summers with, and active involvement in scouts with my dad as den/scout master, I think I turned out OK.

In scouts, we made fires when things permitted, and used improvised 'stoves' we made ourselves when things weren't suitable. We had knives; often times, many knives (I had the biggest 'knife collection' at many scout outings and camps). We had hatchets. And for the most part, we competed on how to use them better - and helped each other in doing same.

And, during the summers, the toys/tools of choice were fishing rods, cap guns, BB guns, slingshots, a bow and arrows, and fire crackers (and with supervision, .22s). We had run of a fairly large lakeside property, and made good use of it. Many song birds, snakes, squirrels, and chipmunks suffered untimely deaths at our hands.

I think that due to the generational gapping in my family, and the fairly conservative values within my family, I grew up with a set of cultural expectations that was a generation or two before my time. Having a pragmatic, utilitarian engineer or a father and a creatively minded nurse as a mother probably helped foster my creative approach to pragmatic problem solving and interest in self reliance.

And fortunately, in today's world where there is very little give-and-take sharing of skills and services, there is at least the Internet to help the self-styled tradesman to get by. It costs more, and is prone to trial and error, but if you need to, you can get by pretty well "on your own" - if you take the time and put forth the effort.

This is one reason I love my dad so much. Born in 1976 I still learned survival skills. Because of the things he made me learn I can shoot guns, fish/hunt, process my own game, tie flies, know enough to be dangerous as a carpenter/plumber/electrician, cook, build a snow cave, sew well enough to mend pants though you won't see me trying to make cloths unless really desperate, cut firewood efficiently (without power tools), build a fire without matches, drive off road safely, and many other skills.
Click to expand...

Amen! For me, it wasn't any one parent, but one of my parents, uncles, or grandfather who assisted me along that road of relative self reliance. Family is first, and community second, in terms of imporance and with whom you should share - and receive - skills and knowledge.

I'm not happy about it, but it seems like manipulating the system is sort of a meta-skill-set that has replaced the jack-of-all trades, self-sufficiency of the past.
Click to expand...

That is sadly true. As they say, those who can, do; those who can't become teachers. (no no, that's the wrong one!) As they say, there are two kinds of people in this world: those who can get st*ff done, and those who know how to get ahead in life.
 
Since some asked, I'll reply in public.
I am the eldest of 4.
The fella that sired us...
... let us just say I was the male head of the household, assisting mom raising the sibs.

Fella that sired us, spent over 30 years in the "Reserves", I understand he was damn good at what he did,and shot expert marksman with a carbine.

The only reason he took me to shoot, 3 times total, and one was hunting, is he was shamed into doing so by other fathers.

I had Mentors & Elders, as I had a maternal grandma, and her folks she run with, and I wanted what she, my uncle, and these mentors had.

The last time I shot with the fella that sired me, he got extremely angry.
He did not know I could do as I was, much less shoot.
Squirrel hunting...I was felling squirrels with a rifle at first. I had "embarrassed" the fella that sired me, as I had not missed.

I bowed up, rebelled, and other men were angry with this fellow that sired me.
I used a .22 revolver, and the other men, and other kids, knew something the fella that sired me did not.
Matters got a bit tense, still everyone backed me up, I threw down a challenge and beat the fella that sired me, in felling squirrels, he used a rifle, I used a handgun.

I knew the woods, I had been mentored in woodscraft skills and being mobile and flexible.

Shotgun start, and shotgun end, we had about 1 1/2 hours for this challenge.
I did not play fair, I cheated, I pulled out all the stops and reached deep down and inside for every morsel of anything mentors and elders had shared.

He made his choices, and they did match my moral law and what I wanted.

Years pass, I tried to close this gap with him, more than once. The more I tried, the more I did the "right thing" the worse it got.

I gave it my best shot, and some things are not meant to be.
Some more years pass and I find out after the fact, he showed up to where I was shooting in a serious competition.
Mentors and others stepped up, and said he could watch from a distance, but stand down. They knew how I felt about the Mental Game and staying focused.
I happened to be one of the better shooters, not a brag, just information.

"Where in the hell did he learn to shoot a shotgun like that!!" he asked in total awe, at the game, and the stakes.
"Sure as hell was not from you, you have seen enough, now leave, you are not welcome in these parts". Mentors, like kind said.


If you want something bad enough, you will find a way to get it.
I don't care what is "right" or "wrong" - you gotta do what you gotta do, follow your convictions and take responsibility for actions.

This fella like I said was in the "Reserves" (understand some privacy here please).
I run with certain types as mentors and some were Military Types .
Off out of the way we were doing "our thing". Before 3 gun come to be.
We looked a bunch of gall-durned hippes with long hair , pony tails, beards...

Hot range, Big Boy Rules...
"Gunny" I had a number of mentors I call "Gunny" , and this fella that sired me, stopped in the distance to watch, what was going on.
Some gall-darned hippie freak was shooting from the back of a moving truck...
Same damn hippie freak was being "extracted" with a rope behind a jeep and running a 1911...
Same one was shooting a 1911 unlike the fella that sired me had been taught.

Later...fella that sired me run over to see a target, hostage target and where shots were fired...

"That gall-durned hippie freak, you sired" Mentor I call Gunny said, and he tossed a metal oil can and "He can't dance for spit, but he can get a oil can to dance, keep it, something to remember that boy with..."

Might explain my take on some things...
Like why I believe in passing forward, having guns and equipment so one can, even if they do not have kids, or nieces and nephews.
Why I am still learning, so while I pass forward what little I know, I bug the fire out of folks still to teach me.
Folks, kids, ladies, elderly, physically limited...I have always learned from these folks, and my attitude is I always will.

I still cannot dance worth spit, I do what I call the "snuggle and shuffle". Never did get the hang out of popping wheelies with a wheel chair either.
At least I "tump" a bit better now and that gets me a few style points.

"Hey dummy don't you recall us sharing that tumping on grass is softer that hard pavement?" - Physically Limited in wheelchairs.

"Ouch...err yeah now that you mention it, I do seem to recall you folks sharing that...now how in the hell do I get aloose from this damn thing?" - me

I have the distinction of being able to miss a gym mat 3 times in a row and finding a hardwood floor trying to pop wheelies in a wheelchair too...

"Boy got talent, got give 'em credit for that" - 'Nam Vet in a wheelchair...about to bust a gut laughing...
 
I'm a strong proprietor of the "social network", like you describe. Having ranch hands, people who are mechanical and tech savvy, people who are nurses or doctors, HAM radio operators and people of all professions in a network or neighborhood is about the wisest thing one can do.

I mean "bugging out" just doesn't make much sense to me. What's going to happen when someone ends up with appendicitis? What's going to happen when an ejector or firing pin goes out of commission? What's going to happen when the cell phone's battery dies? What's going to happen when the cans of Dinty Moore stew are running out? There have got to be skilled workers and artisans of all type who can and will support their community and family. That's what built our country.
 
*hehehe*

I'm as useless as Paris Hilton.
Click to expand...

I have actually run into Paris and Nicole, quite by accident I might add.

Just needed gas for my truck, pack of Marlboro Red, Dr. Pepper and did not know what the hell what was going at the small Southern town.
Last time there was this much excitement was when black labs were born and Miss Lucy got "rit up" in the local papers as her peach cobbler won a prize at the fair...

Nichole can pump gas, get a box smokes, ring up a sale and know how much the Dr. Pepper was, and even count back change.

Paris...
Matters if get that bad, some community is gonna do right fine with a town whiner...
This is sorta like a mix of wounded rabbit and I best not type that.
She got falling off a horse down pat...

Everyone has a role...and some community will need someone to keep predators away from food storage areas...and someone to scout for horse and bull chips for emergency fuel.

Nicole can can ride in the back of my truck..., then again I alway thought Marianne on Gilligan's Island was a contributing member unlike Ginger.
<truck with Nicole and Marianne mind pic>

Southern Boy I am, out and about traveling in da South, and I meet these in London.
Geography I made an A back in the old days.
This was when London was in England, not Arkansas and the London bridge was not in Arizona yet either.

Nicole could catalog and keep inventory and records and she picks up on stuff...
Makes sense to me have her side kick out keeping critters away from the food stuff...

Debra Winger...
She would be a good one to have in community too.
I met her in my travels down in Gilley's, outside of Houston...
That gal got spunk and grit I tell ya!

Everyone has talents and gifts, even if they don't know it.

Excuse me, I need to recall that *pitter patter* moment with Debra Winger...
"Darlin' I can't dance, but if you lead, I do a real nice snuggle and shuffle..."

Anyone seen my soundtrack of Urban Cowboy?
Longneck beer bottle looks better in her back jeans pocket that it does mine...

Important skill set - knowing how to use a back pocket proper.
The gals and guys that know this skill set , are ones you want near.

I am serious, just part of reading people, places and things...
 
Dude!

. . . program in half a dozen languages and create new ones if I'm feeling insane . . .
Click to expand...
And you speak CAN?

I speak IIC, or I²C if you prefer, though I'm a mite rusty.

"Create new ones?" Well, not in some twenty years, but there were those FORTH years. And ASM on Heathkit. Still have that.

*Sigh*

Gawd, those were the years.

If it all "goes South," I would hope you'd head North. I'm gonna need a bigger place, though, if all the people I've invited decide to take me seriously.

Guess I'm gonna have to get some acreage. I can see it now: "Honey, the market has crashed and the dollar is all done, and it's looking pretty grim. I guess we'd better head up to Greebly's place."

:D
 
Everyone has talents and gifts, even if they don't know it.
Click to expand...

It's amazing what we all take for granted. The convenience of instant this and instant that has led us down a tricky path. It is going to be difficult for us all to find our way back up the road of convenience we've taken and travel the one of patience and neccessity. If the lights should ever happen to go out for good, we'll all have to learn the old ways we might have passed by along the way to where we're at now.

I've heard the phrase "Every man for himself", but this attitude would lead us down another potential dead end.

If the lights ever do go out for good, it should be "Everyone for everyone". There are many things I know, but for each one of those, there are ten that I don't. I'd be willing to share each tid-bit I've got in exchange for the knowledge you're willing to share.

When it comes down to tradin' tid-bits, we all better make sure we're not broke.
 
Lots of good post; agree with many/most! Not much point in bugging out here. Guess this would be semi-rural; State chief honcho of "homeland security" says main concern is "Westward Migration". i.e.: SHTF mid-Atlantic coast and the infrastructure takes a hit. Those able to go mobile seeking food, shelter, fuel, safety all coming this way. Not good. Certainly some good folks in the mix, might trade building stockade fence for some meals or gas. Then again many others desperate enough to take, by whatever means, whatever they need or can get.

Fortunately have 2 families nearby I can count on, one more maybe and a widow lady across the road that might contribute a little but will be protected if need be.

STay safe (and stock up).
Bob
 
Ahh... I2C... I used to work with a guy who... well... I grew to seriously wish I could convince him that I2C was his friend but I never did. At the time he was doing hardware and mentoring (there, sm, happy? :D) me on embedded systems except he was constantly coming up with crazy custom protocols that did basically the same job as I2C. It wasn't as though he didn't know what it was (we interfaced to various sensors that were native I2C communicators) but for his own stuff (and consequently anything I did that interfaced to his stuff) it was whatever he felt like that night.... so I'd have a microcontroller running I2C on one pin and some custom serial protocol on another, talking to another microcontroller running I2C on one pin and some funky serial protocol on another.... fond memories. ;)

Not just creating new languages, creating new languages that nobody in the universe (possibly excepting the author) can understand. I figure that's like a rite of passage, isn't it?

My favorite was basically a functional embodiment of graph theory. It totally freaked out most programmers that had to work with it because it had almost no concept of sequential operation or conventional control flow. You programmed a map (graph) with state identifiers that tied into the input of external sensors and when the program started it would find a starting state and traverse the graph to do its work. Each node could be programmed with different operations and interconnects to N other nodes and the control flow was that each time it did something it checked the sensors and re-figured what node it was really on in the graph. If it tried to go from A to D it would traverse the graph and decide that it needed to do B and C to get there. It would do B and check the sensors. If the sensors reported it was now on G it would re-analyze the graph to figure out the shortest route from G to D was through F and E so it would do F and check things again. If the sensors reported it was on F it would go on to E, otherwise it would re-calculate again. Simple operations could take it on some pretty weird trips but write your program correctly and it could automagically do some really complex stuff reliably in a rather unstable environment. Man did it bug C programmers though. :D

Heading north? The five year plan includes acreage in Wyoming or similar. :) Enough land to have a little dirt airstrip and a steel (or maybe concrete) hanger/house. Then I just need an airplane that can land on a little dirt airstrip, and a source of fuel for that airplane, and I'll be doing pretty OK.
 
I'll turn 46 this summer. I make my living in the high tech world of telecommunications, I'm good at what I do it pays well and I hate it with a burning passion unequaled by the fires of hell.

Thats probably why when I'm recreating I go retro. I can run a coal fired forge, (built it myself) not real good but adequate for most things.
I cast my own bullets.
I make bows from solid wood using primarily hand tools, I can Knapp a usable (but not always pretty) arrow head from flint, chert or even thick glass and haft it to an arrow shaft made from natural materials.
I've butchered wild game as well as hogs and cattle.
I've made buckskin and vegetable tanned leather. And I can turn it into usable products from shirts to shoes.
I can garden/farm well enough to feed my family( the wife does the canning).
 
Duality

The duality of this thread astonishes me.

On one hand we have discussions of survivalism and how we would cope with learning the basics of simply existing.

This is interspersed with shop talk about programming language.

THR never ceases to amaze me.
 
LOL... good observation!

I think it ties in nicely with sm's original message... that surviving tough times means a combination of basic skills and specialization. Without the basic skills you may not be able to get by at all... but without some special skills nobody will have any reason to trade with or interact with you and that leaves you in a dangerously unstable place.

In other words, you need some duality to get by. :)

It's a thought-provoking way of looking at issues I think we're all pretty concerned about right now... how are we going to do more than endure the next 5-10 years?
 
Mid fiftys here, I had to walk to school in waist deep snow. And it was uphill, BOTH WAYS
Click to expand...
I had to get up at 3am every morning, shovel a path to the barn, then milk all the pigs before walking to school uphill in the blizzard. Then turn around after school was out and walk home uphill in the blizzard to milk the same pigs again. Kids today have it so easy.
 
Second Amendment is the Keystone of the Amendments

Firearms are important, in more than just being tools, and symbolic.

If matters get that bad, firearms need to be inspected, maintained, and lubed properly, again as tool and for what they symbolize.

Preserving firearms.

One is not going to be zipping around town burning up gas/diesel fuel at $4, $5, maybe $7 a gallon looking for the gun cleaning stuff , much less the gun cleaning stuff of the week.
These are petroleum chemicals and the price of these will go up as well.

Catalog and Internet buying also means shipping is going to go up, due to fuel costs, and then again, maybe getting things shipped period is going to be a serious concern.

It be more of a priority for trucks to bring medical supplies, food and other essentials , than to use trucking fuel for delivering the latest greatest gun care products.

Who knows? Maybe anything "firearm related" is restricted on being shipped.

Let us be honest , for too many years, too many guns have survived without the latest and greatest gun care products.

Black-Powder shooters are a smart bunch!
Here on THR, the Black-Powder sub forum is one of the most civil and polite, if not the most civil and polite forum we have.

I don't know squat about BP, though I have shot BP guns, and this is my fault.
Still...BP guns have stood the test of time, and "cannot" use many of the products folks "have to have" for smokeless.

Just me, still perhaps a little less worry about the latest greatest lube, and taking some of that money and using it to Preserve Freedom.
Letters, Stamps, Email, Joining Pro-Gun organizations, Sending Donations...etc.

Bar of Ivory Soap and other simple things kept and keep BP guns up and running...even works on smokeless guns.

Hoppe's No. 9, or Low Odor Mineral Spirits, some Machine Oil and Lithium Grease is proven.
Even a $9 basic gun cleaning kit with a aluminum rod is proven.

If matters get that bad...
Priorities change, and folk star doing a lot of "I shoulda", as 20/20 Hindsight is known to be so clear.

During Katrina, folks could not get to items needed...many a gun was kept up with 3-in-one oil, a stick and a rag.

Tornadoes rip through, and who knows where the gun cleaning kits are, much less that gal of Breakfree CLP...
Super Oil by Radiator Speciality, Singer Sewing Machine oil, that orange bottle of Hoppe's Lubrication oil everyone turns their nose up at....

Natural Disasters are one thing, Preserving Firearms, both as tools and as they are the keystone of Freedom is another.

Put down the $20 bottle of lube, you already have lube.
Instead send $20 to some organization, or use to assist someone else in joining a organization, buy stamps, envelopes, even a calling card to call Reps...


You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You just might find
You get what you need - Rolling Stones
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Scientific Mud / Dirt Test
Replies
1
Views
407
sm
S
hexidismal
  • Locked
This is why MIM parts are BAD (breakage/wear photos)
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Jim K
J
E
  • Locked
guns and selfdefense, mind set
Replies
23
Views
872
Elm Creek Smith
Elm Creek Smith
S
  • Locked
I don't really know what kind it was...
Replies
2
Views
709
Buttermilk
B
H
  • Locked
Galyans turning bad?
2
Replies
38
Views
3K
bogie
B
Back
Top