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Gunman shoots 3 in Detroit day-care center

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Andrew Rothman, Sep 28, 2004.

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  1. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    NOW can we start arming the teachers?

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/28/daycare.shooting/index.html

     
  2. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    How can this be Ella? Day-care centers are Pistol-Free Zones for CCW holders in our great state? So a CZF must have some sort of magical protection, right? No criminal would dare to go to one of those!
     
  3. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    Automatic probably refers to a pistol. That used to be a common name for one, or so I have been told.
     
  4. Edmond

    Edmond Member

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    You mean criminals don't follow the laws in your state?:rolleyes:
     
  5. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    I talked to Officer Jones in the DPD PIO -- it was a blued 9mm handgun.

    I suggested he give the reporter a call and strighten him out. He said he would do just that.

    Oy.
     
  6. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Next you will hear her talking about how the extension of the AWB would have prevented this. And her pushing for the MI AWB.
    Well, if they did, they probably wouldn't be criminals :neener:
     
  7. boofus

    boofus Guest

    They should really pass a law against shooting toddlers.

    Make it illegal to get in a car and drive to a child care center with intent of commiting murder.

    Ban looking at children if you are about to murder them.

    Make it illegal to point a loaded gun at a child.

    If only we had more laws people wouldn't murder each other! /sarcasm off
     
  8. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

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    All the myriad of gun laws we have accomplished here was insuring the shooter that his victims would be unarmed.
     
  9. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Couldn't have been any ordinary 9mm. It was an "automatic," after all. Besides, they need to get some AWB mileage out of this. Watch for the media to start portraying this like it was an Uzi machine pistol or one of those terrible full-auto TEC-9s or something. They'll find some way to spin the story to make it appear that if the AWB had not been allowed to die, this event would not --- COULD not --- have happened.
     
  10. wmenorr67

    wmenorr67 Member

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    Home daycare?

    Was it a licensed daycare in a private home? If so does the law still effective? Couldn't the homeowner own firearms and defended themselves?
     
  11. mordrid52

    mordrid52 Member

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    Although the reporter probably had a different agenda in mind, the term auto (or autoloader) is correct when refering to self-loading pistols. The term semi-automatic is really not correct when refering to pistols even though every one uses it nowadays to avoid confusion with full auto weapons. After all, it is the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol, not the .45 Semi-Automatic Colt Pistol.
     
  12. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    To bad about the kids but like this is a big surpise with the way detroit has been this year.

    Maybe if they would actually partol the street and arrest the scum bags to send um away it might get better but i wouldnt bet on it
     
  13. mete

    mete Member

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    I'm sure it's the ex-husband or ex-boyfriend ,it happens all the time !!
     
  14. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    I know what you're getting at, mordrid, but you're wrong. A semiauto pistol is NEVER referred to as an "automatic weapon."

    Anyway, I emailed the reporter:
    He wrote back:
    Arrogant enough for ya? I replied:
    We'll see whether he belongs to the "don't confuse me with the facts" crowd or not.
     
  15. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Aw, heck, yes! We need at least 137 laws for every man, woman, child, cat, and dog in the nation to keep us safe.
     
  16. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    The Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press make no mention of the type or appearance of the firearm. I hope Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings is looking for the killer, not the gun (or a white loner in a white van :rolleyes: ).
     
  17. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

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    I haven't done much research on this, since I'm not in any way, shape, or form involved with day care -- but my understanding from my CCW class a bit over 3 years ago was this:

    Even if you're a lawful CCW holder and your wife ran a daycare center in the home you were NOT allowed to carry a weapon on the premises while there were children around.

    It may even be unclear about when there are children around -- but I presume even a liberal judge would let you slide if you shot an intruder at home, after the day care center was closed down. That might be preusming too much though!

    It was made very clear that even if it is your OWN home you CANNOT CCW while there. I'm not sure if that's tied to the CCW laws or child care laws directly.

    It's just another law made with a knee-jerk reaction under the permise that guns around kids are always bad and must be controlled.
     
  18. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Nope -- the freep is still calling it "a blue steel automatic weapon."

    http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm520_20040928.htm

    Your link is an AP story that probably got added to their site automatically. The one above is the Free Press reporter with whom I exchanged emails.
     
  19. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    WXYZ is using the same description.
     
  20. Wayne D

    Wayne D Member

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    You know, he's got a good point. Did Colt not know what they were doing when they named their cartridges? Or, is it that definitions or maybe perceptions have changed over the last 90 some years?
     
  21. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    Auto-loader is not the same as automatic weapon.
     
  22. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    Hey Matt, you could always call the chief's Crime Stoppers hotline at 800-773-2587, asks for Operation Gun Stop, and anonymously tell them that Ben Schmitt has <mumble>knowledge of</mumble> an automatic weapon.... ;)
     
  23. mordrid52

    mordrid52 Member

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    You are, respectfully, wrong. Semi-automatic has become the standard term to refer to automatic pistols (and automatic shotguns like the 11-87) in this politically correct and gun-ignorant age we live in, but that doesn't make it correct or 'automatic' incorrect.

    Browning's patent for the 1911 is for a 45 caliber Automatic Pistol, not a semi-automatic one. In the introduction for Browning's patent for the Colt Woodsman (which you can read here ), JMB specifically states
    Automatic pistol, not semi-automatic. Unless you want to claim that John Moses Browning is wrong, of course.

    Colt has also been referring to their pistols as automatics for a century or so. 25 Automatic Colt Pistol, 32 Automatic Colt Pistol, 380 Automatic Colt Pistol, 45 Automatic Colt Pistol. You can go here and read scans of old Colt manuals. The term automatic is used frequently, but semiautomatic isn't.

    You can go here and read the Army Field Manual circa 1940 for the 1911/1911A1. They're frequently referred to as automatic pistols, but I don't see any references to any semi-automatic pistols.

    You're more than welcome to refer to them as semi-autos (and you'll be in a very large majority these days). But to claim that it's wrong to call them automatics is absurd. Next you'll no doubt try to tell me that inflammable means not flammable.
     
  24. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    And that is precisely why we have a hard time with the media. The media is interested in short, pithy descriptors usable in a variety of situations. We ourselves are confusing. Police are perceived as experts which may not be accurate. Reporters puke at the thought of picking up the phone and calling a representative of the NRA. Gun shops are off limits for the same reason. Josh Sugarman has access to the media and deliberately creates loaded terms for media to use. Sugarman deliberately confuses definitions.

    We are losing the debate because we don't see the debate going on.

    For me the issue is real simple.

    There are two kinds of handguns--revolvers and slide guns, period. No debate as to auto or semi-auto. Simply revolvers or slide guns.
     
  25. Ewok

    Ewok Member

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    WDIV is reporting:
     
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