Gunmen kill 3 illegal immigrants in Ariz

[pacodelahoya]

Longeyes wrote:

Is our Government going to listen to us--the American citizen and taxpayer--or not?



If I was a gamblin man I would bet not.

 

[justashooter]

the highroad is a joke... undoubtably some mod will come down on me for "not following the highroad" whilst allowing others to spew all manners of b.s.

 

[Thin Black Line]

The question I have for the open border types is how many can we take in, can we continue to outsource manufacturing jobs to other countries, provide a police force for the world and continue to hold a "good" standard of living for people in America, personally I don't think so, and as a side note once the Iraq war is over expect 1-2 million citizens from that country to be dropped in your neighborhood.

We (the US) are actually taking in very few Iraqi refugees. We (the US) want
them to stay in Iraq to rebuild their own country. This makes sense, of course.
Many Iraqis who don't see it that way often go to neighboring countries in the ME:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1356188.ece

The Saudi and Kuwaiti response has been to put up fences and armed guards
in those areas easiest for Iraqi illegal aliens to cross their borders. Jordan
has typically been a bit more friendly.

Now back to the US, you are absolutely correct in the concern about how
we're going to take everyone in, export manufacturing jobs, and maintain
our standard of living. We can't. At some point the Chinese and Japanese
who continue to finance our buying-on-cheap-credit-binge are going to
say "enough" and buy gold and Euros instead of $'s. They are going to
expand their markets into Europe, the ME, and Africa. The Chinese and
Japanese have maintained and expanded their manufacturing base and only
need cheap resources (oil and other mineral wealth found in ME and Africa)
to keep it going for their own people. What does America have to offer
them that Europe doesn't at this point as far as high-tech and real wealth?

We have followed the Toffler service/symbolic economy BS to it's logical conclusion
but also added too many new service workers in the process during a parallel drive
to the NAU empire dream. These were very difficult parallel paths to manage
from the start and that would have to assume a stable system with a solid
safety net and lack of official corruption. We (the US) have become Mexico's
safety net and last I checked, both Mexico and the US suffers from corruption
that would make a post-soviet-KGB-turned-Russian-mafia blush with envy.
At least in the old Soviet Union, they didn't sell off the freakin' highways and
gas lines to foreigners. Tanks and Submarines, yes, national infrastructure,
NO. And, when it was found foreign interests were getting their fingers into
the Russian bear's honey jar, they got bitten off. In America, as long as the
eagle's feathers get stroked, he's fine with someone running off with the
nest eggs.

 

[Young gun]

Biker Wrote

"The Reconquistas who want Aztlan back might disagree with you, Young Gun."

While I don't know a lot about the Reconquistas I do know that they are a an extremist branch of the chicano movement and that they were more active in late 60s and 70s than today. Despite what people like Michelle Malkin my think they are a fringe group that rarely commits violence. This stands in stark contrast to the KKK and Aryan nations which are larger and commit numerous acts violence. It would be no more right to characterize european americans by the actions and philosophy of the Aryan Nation than it would be to characterize Latino Immagrants by the Reconquistas.

But the point is that aliens, regardless of how extreme their beliefs, still have a right to due process in this country regardless legal status.

 

[longeyes]

germane to this thread? YES, look ahead

February 8, 2007 3:12 AM

Those Who Serve
Our latest generation of fighters.

By Michael Ledeen

I’ve spent a lot of time of late with military people, and I am reminded of Tocqueville’s observation that the best Americans generally do not go into politics or the academy; they go into business or the law or religion, and, in times of war, the armed forces.

Military people are not happy with the media or with the American public. Many of them say, I think quite accurately, that most Americans view them * the soldiers * as an annoyance. The people just want this Iraq thing to go away, they are tired of it, they are depressed by it, and they have tuned it out. Not that this undermines morale on the battlefield, mind you. Our fighters have a much better appreciation of the stakes than most of the scribblers and chatters; they have seen the terrorists at work, they know that if we fail in the Middle East, terrorism will get an enormous boost. They know that they, or their younger siblings, will have to fight again, closer to home or down home. So they do everything they are permitted to do on today’s battlefields.

I think the most impressive thing about this generation of fighters is their humanity, a point made to me by a senior official who has fought in many wars, and will soon retire. He points to the nature of the military community, which in many ways is the closest thing we’ve got to a classless society. If there is any group of Americans who truly believe in “from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs,” it’s our soldiers. The officer corps brings some of our most talented and most fortunate sons and daughters into intimate contact with their less fortunate cohorts. Officers from wealthy families and elite universities live alongside kids from farms, bayous, and backwoods, and the sons and daughters of the rich and famous sleep, work, fight, and die with the children of the ghettos, slums and unemployed. It isn’t always that way, to be sure; the underclass kids fight their way to high rank, and some of the rich and famous leave the Ivy League and enlist, but the basic point remains: There’s little room for snobbery based on who’s your daddy, or where’d you go to school.

It works quite well, from all accounts. Our officers * this is holy writ for the Marines, but it is pretty much canonical in the other services as well * lead from the front. And the basic rule of the community of warriors is that you don’t want to let down the guy next to you. Everyone knows that, and so everyone works as hard as he can, not only to make himself worthy, but to be damn sure the guy next to him is up to the challenge. You don’t want the guy next to you to come back to base and expose your failures, and you sure as hell don’t want him to fail when you need him to save you.

So a community is created, and it’s a caring meritocracy far more than you’d imagine, certainly far more than I’d imagined before our kids headed off for Afghanistan and Iraq and we started to spend time with people in uniform, or with the parents of people in uniform. It’s totally counterintuitive, but I think it’s largely true. And it turns my stomach when the no-nothings start calling them “mercenaries,” as if they were in it for the money, and as if they were dehumanized killing machines.

Somewhere on the net I read an exchange between Milton Friedman and some general. They were arguing about the value of a volunteer Army, rather than the draft, which existed at the time. The general said he didn’t want an army of mercenaries, and Friedman hit the roof. He pointed out that, on that line of reasoning, we bought our meat from mercenary butchers, went for treatment to mercenary doctors, and so forth. There’s a big difference between volunteers and mercenaries. Our fighters are where they are because, by and large, they believe in something bigger than themselves, they have learned that you can live in a community where virtue does not equal narcissism, and they know that they are far more than a nuisance. They’re in it for all of us, and if they lose it’s going to be bad for all of us.

Machiavelli, the smartest of all of us, knew that true virtue is military virtue, because it enables virtuous people to work for the common good instead of self-indulgence.

And that is why I have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to hear a lot from this generation of fighters.

 

[Biker]

The KKK and Aryan nations are larger? No, they're not. They are non issues, powerless, both scorned and shunned throughout America. However, latino goups such as Lulac and Mecha are established on college campuses throughout the country and have some strong political juice. You might wanna do a bit of research before you make such statements, Young Gun.

Biker

 

[Owen]

I am a consultant for machine shops.

I have one shop that has been trying to hire 10 people for over a year. The pay is $16/hr. They have received 5 applicants in that year. 2 were illiterate. (one couldn't read, one couldn't do simple arithmetic). the other three were hired. One never showed up. The other two showed up for the first week or two, then became chronic discipline problems, and were fired.

Another shop, 1200 miles away, paying $19/hr for entry level machine operators (read unskilled, will train) has an ad in the paper for four years. They generally have to headhunt out of their geographical area or to steal from other companies in the area. Seeing as how the other companies in the area tend to be customers, this company can not grow despite demand.

Another shop I work with, an OEM pays $12/hour for entry level positions + regular overtime, in a state where the average household income is $24k.
They are doing everything they can to buy robots, because few apply for the jobs they offer, most that do are illiterate or unemployable for other reasons, and the people they hire rarely last long. Instead of hiring 20 or 30 people at $24k, they are hiring 5 or 6 folks at $50 to $60k to program machinery.

And you wonder why manufacturing is going overseas?

 

[Art Eatman]

Sheesh! I give up. This was about a shooting, not about the illegal problem. Take discussions of illegals to APS.

Art