Everyone has great points here. I think the bottom line is, that we are all adults and consumers in this industry. We don't want to be lied to and treated like little children. Welding rod makes a great point, what more could the industry have achived if everyone was honest about products that just didn't match up to par? How many recalls could have been avoided? How many injuries prevented? How many dollars saved by the consumer that was more informed? I believe they are beggining to finaly feel the heat in loss of readers. Even though I agree that their money is made on ads, if no one is buying the magazines anymore, their company will either get dropped from the parent company or they will see the error of their ways and shape up.
Guns & Ammo sucking up to Beretta?
- Thread starter gunnutery
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Why would an SR9 clearly not be capable of doing that? Heck, tons of pistols could easily do that in capable hands. I'll bet Sweeney (and many many other shooters) could easily bang the 100 yard gong shot after shot with some practice and any decently made current model 9mm service pistol. I've seen people do it with snubbies. It's so non-noteworthy that I wouldn't even bother to write about it.
5000 rounds without cleaning or a malfunction isn't even anything amazing to brag about either. I'm not a big fan of G&A although for $5/Year I keep subscribing to it. I don't really think there's a gun mag out there that I REALLY like. I might try out that gun tests one people keep mentioning though.
Actually Cycle and Cycle Guide went out of buisness, but you are 100% correct about the modern motorcycle being developed to it's present state because of the magazines sometimes harsh reviews of bikes. I think I've only seen one multi gun comparision in a gun mag. Usually they title an article "Five modern revolvers", but never a direct comparison. I actually look for reviews on the internet, either from established sites or informal ones like this forum. Just discount the ranters and morons and you can get a pretty good idea of how a product works.
Forgive me if my initial facts were off, I thought it was G&A that left the Beretta 92 off of their top ten list some months ago (if it was not G&A then in was NRA American Rifleman), afterwards, the president of Beretta wrote a letter (which was published in same magazine) asking why the 92 was excluded. I've noticed ever since the letter was published, the magazine (both G&A and AR) have been publishing multiple articles in praise of the 92/m9 amongst other models. Even if I've mixed up which magazine it was, I've been rather put off by gun magazines in general despite the recent sucking up.
alfack
Member
The only person who can tell you if a firearm is worth it or not is yourself.
People on these forums are full of as much crap as the magazines are. Just ask for an opinion on any gun and you will see folks that hate it and will never buy anything from that company and you will see folks that love it and have nothing but praise for it.
I learned a long time ago that if something sounds interesting to me, go ahead and get it, then judge for yourself. If you end up not liking it, sell it and move on.
It's funny, because this months G&A has an article about the M9 and PX4 as duty weapons and another article about the XPLOR A400 shotgun. I have a PX4 and a 92FS and think they are very good quality weapons. I am looking to get the XPLOR and handled one to day in a shop. It seems very nice, too. I really think the only way you can go wrong with a Beretta is if you buy a Tomcat. Maybe the magazine is justified in sucking up to Beretta. That is my opinion only, though. I would not want anyone to buy anything based on my opinion alone.
People on these forums are full of as much crap as the magazines are. Just ask for an opinion on any gun and you will see folks that hate it and will never buy anything from that company and you will see folks that love it and have nothing but praise for it.
I learned a long time ago that if something sounds interesting to me, go ahead and get it, then judge for yourself. If you end up not liking it, sell it and move on.
It's funny, because this months G&A has an article about the M9 and PX4 as duty weapons and another article about the XPLOR A400 shotgun. I have a PX4 and a 92FS and think they are very good quality weapons. I am looking to get the XPLOR and handled one to day in a shop. It seems very nice, too. I really think the only way you can go wrong with a Beretta is if you buy a Tomcat. Maybe the magazine is justified in sucking up to Beretta. That is my opinion only, though. I would not want anyone to buy anything based on my opinion alone.
I'm glad that works for you, truely. However, I like to find out things about the gun, good or bad before I buy it. I don't have the time to mess with a disfunctional gun let alone try and find a buyer for a disfunctional gun at a price for less than I paid for it. My financial situation isn't dire, but I don't have an endless suply of money either. When I buy something, I expect it to work. If it has minor dificiencies or doesn't have all the features I want then I can deal with that, but I'd like to know about them first.
StarDust1
Member
BS! 100 yard offhand hits with 4" or 2" fixed sight pistols and revolvers is Hollywood or simply tall-taleville! 5,000 rounds of zero malfunction with any Ruger P-series pistol, particularly without cleaning, is in my experience. an utterly ridiculous claim!
12131
Member
The only statement worth repeating, imho.
ccsniper
member
almost every gun magazine (paper ones) I have are 10 to 30 years older than I am. My uncle and dad collected them and now they reside in my room. Best place to learn lots about ammo.
alfack
Member
I hear ya. I like to do some research, too. It's just that you never know who to believe; the guy who got a lemon and is badmouthing every possible chance he gets or the guy who got a normal production quality gun and has no problems. I've found I can waste a lot of time doing research
Prion
Member
Change the title of this thread! NRA-American Rifleman sucks up to Beretta.
Erik M
Member
G&A has always been in the tacticoolio section IMO I dont really care what goes on with them. I don't need them to tell me that Beretta makes a quality weapon.
GunsAmerica Fan
Member
So I guess the question is what would you have it be like then? If you have editorial requirements you have to write articles. There is no upside to writing articles about bad guns. So the majority of us write articles about good guns. Beretta is one of my advertisers too and I am in the process of doing a review on the Px4 subcompact. It's a great gun and I can't say I have found one negative. It cycles when you limp wrist it, it shot into about 4" at 25' on an informal bag rest (and I'm not a competitive shooter), it comes with three backstraps for different sized hands, and it is the sexiest piece of steel I have seen in a long time. If I write a good review on it am I sugar coating, or am I just giving my advertiser space to talk about their product in a different voice than their own? They invest in my company, why shouldn't I invest in theirs?
What would be the ideal magazine approach? I had a long thread on TFL about this and me and another editor agreed that nobody is going to give print space to bad guns, for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with who advertises with you. I think good guns made by good companies like Beretta, should get the showcase and kudos they deserve.
So what would you like to see? Would you like it to be a panel of reviewers? Gun Test has done this but I have never cared for the approach. Would you like to be able to attach your own comments to every article so that everyone can see it, in addition to the feature article? Other ideas??
What would be the ideal magazine approach? I had a long thread on TFL about this and me and another editor agreed that nobody is going to give print space to bad guns, for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with who advertises with you. I think good guns made by good companies like Beretta, should get the showcase and kudos they deserve.
So what would you like to see? Would you like it to be a panel of reviewers? Gun Test has done this but I have never cared for the approach. Would you like to be able to attach your own comments to every article so that everyone can see it, in addition to the feature article? Other ideas??
If a gun does not have a flaw in your eyes then by all means cast no shadow upon it. But if it does have a problem don't beat around the bush. G&A barely mentions any problem they may have had. When you catch what ever the problem is in the article, they don't explain it and therefore you're left with more questions about said problem than answers. Just be honest, it's all we're asking.
Full Metal Jacket
member
you mean to tell me gun mags favor their advertisers products??
when did this happen, and why wasn't i told?
seriously though, i haven't read a gun mag i years. nothing but crap in them.
when did this happen, and why wasn't i told?
seriously though, i haven't read a gun mag i years. nothing but crap in them.
earlthegoat2
Member
Just like in AR Magazine when they left the Beretta off their list. Next month the president of Beretta USA writes a letter of disapproval and then a month or two later they run a cover and a multi page article on it.
I guess they are bending over and letting them put it in their earhole.
I guess they are bending over and letting them put it in their earhole.
Well, all I'll say is G&A ought to be kissing Beretta's azz, because the 92 is a damn good gun that's stood up to more politically-driven testing than anything I can recall in my lifetime. Plus - it's stood the test of combat.
I own, have owned and have shot many, many pistolas - and I own a few 92s. I've never had an issue, they're uniformly accurate and good shooters. Given all of the above, were I the pres of Beretta, I'd have ripped them a new one too.
Interestingly, Beretta's seem to be out of favor these days, and prices reflect that. I've been able to pick up several clean, used Berettas recently and use them to carry, in my pick up and as a SD gun in the house. My wife shoots them well and I do too. There are newer, smaler, coller pistolas, but Berettas get it done and should have made the list. Plus - they are a bargain these days.
I own, have owned and have shot many, many pistolas - and I own a few 92s. I've never had an issue, they're uniformly accurate and good shooters. Given all of the above, were I the pres of Beretta, I'd have ripped them a new one too.
Interestingly, Beretta's seem to be out of favor these days, and prices reflect that. I've been able to pick up several clean, used Berettas recently and use them to carry, in my pick up and as a SD gun in the house. My wife shoots them well and I do too. There are newer, smaler, coller pistolas, but Berettas get it done and should have made the list. Plus - they are a bargain these days.
how many people actually read gun mafazines anymore?
now i ask how many people go on the internet to look up information?
what if you put the reviews and the internet together?
you get gun sites like this one.
How many people search something gun related that is new like some new gun that just came out recently at the SHOT show and find thr as the little url at the bottom of the search result.
just something to think about and how many non members traffic this site every day...
now i ask how many people go on the internet to look up information?
what if you put the reviews and the internet together?
you get gun sites like this one.
How many people search something gun related that is new like some new gun that just came out recently at the SHOT show and find thr as the little url at the bottom of the search result.
just something to think about and how many non members traffic this site every day...
Full Metal Jacket
member
gunblast with jeff quinn is just as non-credible and worthless as any of the gun mags.
that guy says everything "performed flawlessly" (to keep getting free samples to test).
that guy says everything "performed flawlessly" (to keep getting free samples to test).
lobo9er
Member
One thing is for sure they don't want to upset people who may advertise in their mag. I always keep that in mind when reading any article in any mag. Some of the editors have written they get taken out on big hunting trips by some of the manufactures, why would they want to ruin that for themselves. Internet is the best way to get an actual honest review. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the manufactures may own a few of the mags.
Full Metal Jacket
member
correct^^^^
A 100 yard gong usually isn't exactly a tiny little target. He's not claiming that he's shooting 2" groups at 100 yards or anything. I'd guess he's probably using a silhouette or shooting at a range's gong or something, both of which are decent size targets.
Here is a video of a guy with a Glock 27 shooting a large steel plate at 230 yards. Keep in mind...230 yards. We're talking about less than half of that distance. Even if the target was 1/2 of the size of his I don't think it would make it any less possible. I think you're underestimating the accuracy that pistols are capable of...in the hands of a good shooter that is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMEg4y54Dk
same guy again with a Glock 23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd3kF6LHz4
That guy is a pretty good shot...but there are many others that can do the same thing. It's not mind blowing but it's fun to watch anyways.
Also, the SR9 is not a P series pistol. But it doesn't matter because I believe that a well built SR9, Glock, M&P, XD, or other modern service pistol can go 5000 rounds without cleaning. I wouldn't even think it was much of an accomplishment really. I like to keep mine fairly clean so I probably won't be doing a 5000 round test myself anytime soon. Many many others have made it WELL over 5000 rounds without cleaning though. You can easily find their results posted all over the web.
Full Metal Jacket
member
yeah everyone's all hot and bothered about "hancock's glock vids".
you can do what he does with any quality pistol, not just glock.
i'm a glock fan, but these vids do nothing for me.
you can do what he does with any quality pistol, not just glock.
i'm a glock fan, but these vids do nothing for me.
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