Guns and Dementia

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My pops isn't there yet and hopefully it never will, but he's getting older by the day so who knows.

I've been asking him about his guns that he keeps in the house for a while now. Not in a threatening manner, just that I'd like to see them. Some I haven't seen in decades and some I've never seen. Sadly he doesn't know where most of them are.

Mind you, these are his few hand guns I'm talking about. His armory of long guns are already secured with a trusted member off the homestead.
 
luger fan said:
100% When you ask a loved one for their keys or guns you are asking for their freedom. SLOOOOOOOOOOOOLY.
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Indeed. Sometimes hard-fought freedom. Asking for car keys sped my grandmother’s demise. She gave up and just sat in her apartment. Died three weeks later.
 
Sovblocgunfan said:
Indeed. Sometimes hard-fought freedom. Asking for car keys sped my grandmother’s demise. She gave up and just sat in her apartment. Died three weeks later.
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Or it could have prolonged it, however briefly.
Down here, just south of a small town comprised entirely of retirement-aged folk, literally not a single week goes by without news of someone from there stomping on the gas instead of the clutch (in an automatic, too), putting their car into reverse instead of gear and backing into oncoming traffic, stopping and then driving through a busy red light like a stop sign, making a right turn from the left lane, straight up driving onto the freeway off ramp, or any number of other issues.
If it gets to the point you need to ask for someone's keys, you're not just prolonging their lives. You're also prolonging others'.
 
See that a lot here in central Florida too. Are there some folks in their 90s that can still function behind the wheel? Yep, I have one on either side of me as neighbors. Are there folks in their 70s who should be road tested every year? Yep to that too. Maybe it will come down to things like that for owning guns or other deadly implements; hopefully done by family members and not by gov't fiat.
 
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Deus Machina said:
Or it could have prolonged it, however briefly.
Down here, just south of a small town comprised entirely of retirement-aged folk, literally not a single week goes by without news of someone from there stomping on the gas instead of the clutch (in an automatic, too), putting their car into reverse instead of gear and backing into oncoming traffic, stopping and then driving through a busy red light like a stop sign, making a right turn from the left lane, straight up driving onto the freeway off ramp, or any number of other issues.
If it gets to the point you need to ask for someone's keys, you're not just prolonging their lives. You're also prolonging others'.
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The point of this was not to talk about others' driving abilities (didn't need the sermon, thanks). It was to address the idea that taking away someone's freedoms, as referenced in post 25, can be one of the biggest wounds you can inflict on them.
 
Sovblocgunfan said:
The point of this was not to talk about others' driving abilities (didn't need the sermon, thanks). It was to address the idea that taking away someone's freedoms, as referenced in post 25, can be one of the biggest wounds you can inflict on them.
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Yes it can, IF they even remember about it.
 
Dementia isn't just a problem with older folks. A 55 year old lady in a neighboring county was having some issues a few weeks ago. Officers were sent to her home 3 times on a Sunday to deal with her fears. On Monday she drove through a school zone speeding. When the officer tried to pull her over she ran. She drove 20 miles into our county before she was finally stopped after hitting multiple patrol cars.

After finally being stopped she refused to get out and fired one shot at officers. They talked her into surrendering the gun, but after handing the gun to an officer she closed and locked the doors refusing to get out. When officers approached the vehicle again she fired again with another gun. The LE officers responed with at least a dozen shot which killed her.

http://www.cbs46.com/story/38131884/gbi-investigating-officer-involved-shooting-in-floyd-county

Things like this don't only effect the deceased persons family. Three of the officers involved are people I know, one is a close friend. This may well be termed "suicide by cop". But it has a profound effect on the cops forced to pull the trigger. We've had 2 local LE officers commit suicide in the last few years. One had to shoot a young man just a year earlier in a "suicide by cop" situation. The young mans father understood and supported the officers decision. His mother wouldn't let it go, publicly calling the officer a murder every chance she got.
 
No worries, thanks. This all happened 30 years ago. She did have some unexplained damage on her car that caused the discussion about keys. So you are right, of course.
 
I am an old man and have had a CCW for about 10 years now. In 2013, I had 5 months of chemo, full body radiation and a stemcell transplant; I was very sick/ weak and developed what is called “chemo brain” - I was in a fog on many days that, looking back with a somewhat clearer brain now, should have prohibited me from carrying - my judgement was compromised but I still carried - it was very natural for me to carry so I continued the practice. Also taking large doses of mood-altering predisone, I was short-tempered and carrying a handgun - just not very smart on my part but I was simply not of a thinking mind to know better. I wish that one of my many doctors at the time would have asked about any possible dangerous activity and talked to me - I hope that I would have listened and been honest with myself. I share this experience to advise that there are many more scenarios that should preclude a gun in the house or on the hip.
 
Tirod said:
Do we take the keys away when we recognize that the individual can no longer handle driving?

Key indicator that gun handling won't be any better.

The real issue is using grace and sensitivity to arrange the loss of control thru offering supervised opportunities. None of us want to lose our freedom to travel or simply run an errand, a gun owner doesn't want to feel unsafe.

As pointed out in many other threads, what to do with a collection of firearms after they pass away might be handled at that point in life.

It WILL happen. We need to accept that fact and plan on it more than deny it and leave things undone.
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I think there is a huge difference between a person who is still sharp creating a document that says what should happen under what circumstances, vs relatives having to make a decision on their own when they see the person is too far gone.
 
old lady new shooter said:
Medical science now keeps people alive longer than in the past... but mostly keeps the physical parts working longer, doesn't prevent dementia.
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Boy, is that the truth. We work so hard to stave off death, we act like dying at the proper time is a bad thing.

I may have 40 years left. I sure hope not! I would rather drop dead at 70 with most of my parts working than make it to 100 and be a wreck. I hate having to use reading glasses and having occasional pains in my hands. I don't know how I'll stand it when old age brings the rest of its packages to my door.

I wouldn't be in my dad's shoes for anything. I insulate him from reality. Without me, he would be stored in the back room of a home.

When it's my time, I want to die and go some place better. If the bus for heaven pulled up right now, I would climb on board and never look back.

As for husbands dying first, cigarettes killed my mother 21 years ago. Terrible thing, but thank God she doesn't have to take care of my dad now.
 
stevehgraham said:
Boy, is that the truth. We work so hard to stave off death, we act like dying at the proper time is a bad thing.

I may have 40 years left. I sure hope not! I would rather drop dead at 70 with most of my parts working than make it to 100 and be a wreck. I hate having to use reading glasses and having occasional pains in my hands. I don't know how I'll stand it when old age brings the rest of its packages to my door.

I wouldn't be in my dad's shoes for anything. I insulate him from reality. Without me, he would be stored in the back room of a home.

When it's my time, I want to die and go some place better. If the bus for heaven pulled up right now, I would climb on board and never look back.

As for husbands dying first, cigarettes killed my mother 21 years ago. Terrible thing, but thank God she doesn't have to take care of my dad now.
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Well, when you start nearing 70 you become more accepting of certain physical limitations, instead of focusing on x hurts or whatever you are grateful to wake up in the morning -- and I think younger people should consciously try to do that.

Personally as long as I'm still independent I'm happy. :)
 
The senile tend to loose interest in firearms so there are rarely any problems. That said, guns can be dangerous for the demented just like cars, lighting fires, cooking, etc. Nothing really unique about firearms.
My late wife has a relative who was cold so he tried to light a fire. He skipped a few steps and lit the wood pile on fire which burned down the barn. I witnessed him once pissing in the dryer once in the middle of the night. He seemed to have a moment of clarity about half way though and just busted up laughing--I guess that is a better response than depression.

Mike
 
i'm seeing several friends and a family member getting old, all in their 70s and 80s and pondering the next decade, which i doubt most will live thru. this breaks my heart. i'm helping my brother sort thru his large collection of firearms. be thoughtful if you witness your friend or family member behaving in ways you think are dangerous...just be thoughtful and kind. the last thing they need is a bully.
 
Take em now... We had to take my Father In Laws away many years before he passed from Lewy Body disease (Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and Dementia combined)

He didn't even recognize us much less the missing guns... Although, quite a few of his guns were missing to never be seen again. Whom he gave them too or who took advantage of him we will never know.
 
BSA1 said:
My F-I-L refuses to discuss anything about dying. He will not write a will, has not communicated how he wants things divided up and is having memory issues so he is not remembering what he has said. One of my b-I-l is literally a thief so things are going to get ugly when the time comes. Actually the whole family situation is going to get really ugly and my wife and I know we will have to make the decisions.

I have been able to take care of some things without telling him that has worked out ok. The key thing is not to discuss it around him after it is done. I need to make a trip to visit them and figure out a way to get his guns. (Small collection...couple of inexpensive shotguns, rifle and 22 rifle). He is sadly getting easily taken advantage of by his so-called friendly neighbors and probably will not remember loaning them out. I will probably tell him they need cleaning or some work done and since I am the gunny in the family he will probably let me take them. I will keep them in the vault until either he wants them back or he dies.
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You may want to be appointed his conservator by a Court. This can be done if a diminished capacity is shown even if he refuses. I would consult a probate attorney about the situation ASAP, because once he is mentally incapacitated or dies the free for all begins and family members you would never think of becoming vultures pop up like rats.

Yes, it is a tough subject, but if you don’t want to see his lifetime of work and his money/property stolen or picked apart like bones by a jackal you will need to act.

Good luck!
 
I agree with Riomouse911. When a person becomes incompetent, the relatives who are decent are likely to sit back and do nothing while the vultures and rats scamper up to take over. It happened in my family.
 
My former neighbor is a probate attorney. He told me once, “Wills and trusts are rather cheap and easy. For those my fees are a pittance compared to when nothing is in writing and the families start fighting!”

Sadly, he’s right. It is a lot cheaper and easier to act first on your own and lay out your will/trust as you want it than it is for the family to start squaring off in court over their ideas of how to split up your estate.

If the elder refuses to do that, once the incompetence stage is reached then conservatorship prior to death is the way to go. It’s a hassle, but a hell of a lot less of one than going into probate blind.

Good luck!
 
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