Guns and garage sales

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DontBurnMyFlag

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Messages
891
Location
VA
Before I start my topic, I just want to let you guys know Im not planning on doing anything illegal or irresponsible. But where in Pennsylvania can I find garage sales and flea markets that sell rifles for cheap. Curio and relic or just old military surplus. Im not looking for a saturday night special of rifles here. Im from NJ, so its hard to find good deals and old rifles that arent at an FFL. Im just looking to do some summer time rifle shopping. You never know what you can find at garage sales, so I guess you could say Im doing this for the thrill of the hunt. :D If anyone has any good places to start, your advice would be appreciated.
 
You will still have to go though an FFL if you live in diffenct state then the seller.

-Bill
 
As far as private sales go, I don't think you ever have to go through an FFL, but I'll have to do some more research on that...
 
well, im just planning off my friends past experiences. He runs into a garage sale, some guy is selling some old bolt action rifle. 80 bucks or something like that. he buys it, no ifs ands or buts. just some old rifle in a private sale.
 
why not look at stuff in NJ? although it may not be legal and you may not get caught, why risk it?

Are there no guns in NJ? I thought some people there still hunted, look for hunting clothes, decoys, etc anything that shows outdoor activities and then ask them. point blank, I have been lookingfor guns do you have any to sell?
this has worked for me
 
Im not planning on doing anything illegal or irresponsible.
Click to expand...
If you're a NJ resident and planning on buying a gun at a garage sale in PA, then you are most definitely planning on doing something illegal and irresponsible.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state.
Click to expand...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
Click to expand...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. As noted in FAQs B1 and B2, which are posted on this Web site in the "Firearms" section, a private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

For information about any State or local regulations that may govern this type of transaction, it is advisable to contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a gun from a private person who resides in another State, the gun will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping.
Click to expand...
The relevant portion of the US Code that covers this info is 18USC922(a)(b)(g) and (n).
 
Conveniently left out of previous post:


B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]
Click to expand...


The way I read this is that in my state, you do not have to go through a FFL to buy a long gun in a transaction between non-FFL holders, so I could go to a flea market/gun show/garage sale in another state provided that their state laws are similar, and be able to buy a long gun in person without the need of a FFL. If I were to buy the same long gun from the same person without meeting them in their home state, (as in a gunbroker transaction) the firearm must be shipped to a FFL holder in my home state to do the transaction.

For the original poster, he needs to follow the state laws of New Jersey and Pennsylvania in the purchase. If a so-called 'over the fence' transaction is allowable for long guns in both states, he gets the green light, if not, its pay the FFL holder time.
 
crackedbutt,

I didn't "conveniently," or inconveniently for that matter, leave anything out of my post.

You are incorrectly reading that quote. It says you may only buy a hangun within your state of residence, but may buy a long gun outside your state if transfer is done, "in person, at a licensee's premises." So a flea market, private residence (ie garage sale), etc would not be legal for transfers to a private citizen that is not a state resident, because they are not a "licensee's premises."

What is convenient, is I was still awake to correct your error. :neener:
 
DMF is correct. Private sales between citizens of different states is not legal unless you go through an FFL.
 
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. As noted in FAQs B1 and B2, which are posted on this Web site in the "Firearms" section, a private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.
Click to expand...

Does this mean if you're both in NJ and you both have FID cards, you can exchange firearms without paperwork or FFL?

Also, I've heard that NJ has "defacto" registration on firearm purchases... what happens if you're a life-long NJ resident but you have a firearm that isn't in their registry?
 
provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]
Click to expand...

Assuming both parties are legal to possess under Federal law, that's the part that nails don'tburnmyflag. He can't buy it under NJ Law.

Private sales of long guns between bordering states without going through FFL is not illegal (per website and Harrisburg, PA ATF office). Happens all the time between NY/PA, NY/VT, VT/NH, NH/ME.
 
Good luck finding cheap guns at those locations. Usually what you'll find is a piece of junk that the owners don't have a clue what it is but they think because it's old it must be a valuable antique. Usually it will be something on the order of a Western Auto or Sears marked shotgun that has never been cared for, rusty, cracked stock, but since it was "grandpa's" it had to be valuable. They'll have $200 on a $40 gun.
 
Where does it say all that in the 2nd Amendment?
Click to expand...

It doesn't. :D

While all us sheeple try to muddle through keeping on the legal side of things, maybe you could tell us how you manage things in the free state of California?

Does that state even know about the US constitution? Bill of Rights? :neener:
 
Last edited:
Private sales of long guns between bordering states without going through FFL is not illegal (per website and Harrisburg, PA ATF office). Happens all the time between NY/PA, NY/VT, VT/NH, NH/ME.
Click to expand...


Don't the two bordering states have to have an agreement??
 
Don't the two bordering states have to have an agreement??
Click to expand...

Yes, or more specifically-

provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]
Click to expand...

All those bordering states are. Please note that I did not mention NJ and MA because they specifically forbid this activity. Not sure about CT and RI, so I left them out. You may still run afoul of local ordinances (NYC?).

I would not ship a gun to some guy in Binghamton, NY. Not sure if it is legal, and it sure as hell is not smart. I would sell/buy a gun to/from same guy in FTF transaction.

Point is that lots of people (FFLs and LEOs included) make blanket assumptions on what is legal. Take the time to find out facts. Read ATF website, call local office and speak with agent if you are confused, or want clarification. I have found them to be quite friendly and helpful. I'd even go so far as to state that I don't think the agents in PA are not actually out to take all our guns away. :)
 
in person, at a licensee's premises in any state
Click to expand...

Care to explain that part then? Who is defined as a "liscensee" according to that text? Folks, don't get your legal advice from the internet. As 45Badger says, call the ATF/local govt and ask first.
 
"licensee" = FFL.
Click to expand...
And, more specifically, said FFL's normal place of business ("premises"). If the FFL has a storefront in a city, this regulation would not be complied with if you roll up to his house in another suburb and buy something from him on a Sunday afternoon.
 
It was a rhetorical question. ;)

But if people want to just do FTF between states, have fun. You need an FFL in the state of the seller, then you can bring the gun back to your state. FTF with no FFL intrastate is fine unless state/local law forbids it (like in PA, with handguns).
 
While all us sheeple try to muddle through keeping on the legal side of things, maybe you could tell us how you manage things in the free state of California
Click to expand...
OK. They pretend to regulate and we pretend to be regulated. So far it works, as there are more gunowners, firearms, and ammo in 'Kaliforneeya' than any 3 other states combined. :neener:

and while we're at it, why don't you explain why pa keeps electing spector?
 
as there are more gunowners, firearms, and ammo in 'Kaliforneeya' than any 3 other states combined
Click to expand...
That's alright. We have more gun shows, FTF w/o FFL transfers, "semi-automatic" assualt weapons, civilian owned machineguns and >10 round magazines than California. :neener: Seems they are doing more than pretending to regulate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
garage sale guns
Replies
3
Views
537
wundudnee
W
tuckerdog1
  • Locked
Garage Sale guns
2
Replies
47
Views
7K
content
C
T
  • Locked
How to find gun bargains at garage sales
Replies
6
Views
870
Old Fuff
O
S
  • Locked
Ever see guns at garage sales or moving sales?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
Okiecruffler
O
A
  • Locked
Gun safe in garage in Arizona?
Replies
9
Views
3K
Len_in_Phoenix
L
Back
Top