"Guns are not a solution"

[woodybrighton]

Firearms were used in 73 homicides in 2004/05 (under one in ten of all homicides), five more than the previous year.

out of a population of 50 odd million thats not too bad the others stats are stats and I'd take them with a pinch of salt

unless an areas fenced and secured making it a gun free zone is ridiculous a bad guy isn't going to care and the good guys will just be disarmed

 

[Nickotym]

Surprise, no comments accepted.

They still have not accepted any comments to the article. Real open minded to not put up any of the differing viewpoints to his article eh?

 

[citizen510]

"Well, if guns are not a solution, I'm sure the author would support legislation FORBIDDING the police to use firearms to intervene in any school shooting.

Pepper spray or bare hands, that's it."

Sounds like the British answer...and how is that working out for them?

 

[woodybrighton]

well we haven't had another school shooting if thats what you mean and defending children form madmen with guns just isn't a problem.
NOW personally I believe we went overboard and if the law as it stood had been enforced correctly hamiliton would have lost his pistols a long time ago.
The UK does not have a problem with legal guns finding there way into the hands of criminals.
we have a problem with illegal guns smuggled into the country and blank firing and borock air cartridge weapons and some deactivated weapons illegally converted to live fire.
the majority of gun crime happens in London, Manchester Liverpool and Nottingham and is drug related.
a serving soldier just got 3 years jail for stealing 21 rounds of 9mm handgun ammo and trying to sell it.
I doubt you could sell 21 rounds of ammo illegaly in the states and find any buyers

 

[willbrink]

"those wacky NRA nut jobs"

I stopped reading exactly there. Written by a 6th grader it seems.

 

[quatin]

Everyone seems to think bulletproof vests literally mean bulletPROOF.

 

[6_gunner]

Whenever I hear people advocate the use of metal detectors I think of the scene in the Boondock Saints where they pass their guns right over an unguarded metal detector without hardly breaking stride.
I also think how ridiculous it would be for every student to have to remove their keys, pocket change, belt buckle and any other metal objects every time they enter a building. Moving from class to class in a sea of humanity is hectic enough as it is!
Of course, this doesn't even compare to the lunacy of suggesting that every student should wear a bullet-proof vest, or that every desk should have a bullet-proof top! On top of all that, he seems to think that feeling safer is the goal, rather than actually being safer!
We can't even argue with this kind of madness. We need to just let people like this rant themselves into a frenzy and seek to educate people on our own terms. Of course, its difficult to do that considering that a well-articulated pro-gun article would be deemed nutty and extremist, while crap like this is totally objective.

 

[willbrink]

Not very high road of me and it probably wont get posted, but:

Hmmm, lets see, anyone who believes the right to self defense is a basic human right protected by the Second Amendment are “wacky NRA nut jobs” and teachers are “high-strung, overworked control freaks.” Nice.

You have added no new thoughts or points to this debate, give in to the usual “don’t confuse me with the facts” emotional based anti-gun rhetoric, and write like a precocious 6th grader who got his hands on a thesaurus.

You have clearly done no research on this topic, and I probably have T-shirts older than you are. You say we should sit “down like big boys and girls and talking about an issue intelligently.”

You first kid….

Now, for a more informed and less emotional perspective from a college age person (I was one of those once!) regarding the issue of guns on campus by licensed citizens, read “Unarmed and vulnerable” by Bradford B. Wiles, a graduate student at Virginia Tech:

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/80510

 

[Erebus]

Firearms were used in 73 homicides in 2004/05 (under one in ten of all homicides), five more than the previous year.

Where did you get these numbers? It would appear that they are inaccurate. And it may be that someone is deliberately misleading the British people in an effort to make their laws appear effective.

This TimesOnline article is dated August 26, 2007

THE government was accused yesterday of covering up the full extent of the gun crime epidemic sweeping Britain, after official figures showed that gun-related killings and injuries had risen more than fourfold since 1998.

The Home Office figures - which exclude crimes involving air weapons - show the number of deaths and injuries caused by gun attacks in England and Wales soared from 864 in 1998-99 to 3,821 in 2005-06. That means that more than 10 people are injured or killed in a gun attack every day.

The Home Office has repeatedly denied gun crime is rising. Last week it pointed to the latest annual crime statistics, which appeared to show that overall gun crime was 13% down on the previous year.

But in his letter to Smith, released today, Davis said these claims were contradicted by figures “buried” in a Home Office statistical bulletin, published ear-lier this year. “[Here] we find the most revealing indication of the true gun-re-lated violence sweeping Britain. Gun-related killings and injuries (excluding air weapons) have increased over fourfold since 1998,” he wrote.

Extract from letter by David Davis, shadow home secretary, to Jacqui Smith, home secretary, August 24, 2007

Dear Jacqui, We are all concerned at the rising tide of violent crime that has manifested itself this week in a spate of shocking killings, including the tragic death of young Rhys Jones. You told GMTV this morning that “statistics aren’t a help but gun crime is down”. That is an extraordinary claim.

According to Home Office figures, gun crime (excluding air weapons) has almost doubled since Labour took office. The annual crime figures, released by the Home Office in July, suggest a 13% decrease on the previous year, which neglects the 18% increase in firearm homicides.

However, perhaps most telling is the massive increase in gun violence, disclosed on 25 January of this year (Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2005-06, Home Office). Buried at page 36 . . . we find [that] . . . gun-related killings and injuries (excluding airguns) have increased by over fourfold since 1998.

In light of this information, your claim that gun crime is down is both inaccurate and misleading. One clear fact on gun-related violence is that if you don’t count it, you won’t be able to tackle it. Your predecessors opted for spin over substance. I hope that is a path you will avoid and would be grateful for an explanation of what action you plan.

Yours sincerely, David Davis

 

[Crunker1337]

The purpose of a gun depends entirely on its user, and they aren't tools used solely for crime or killing.

Here's a scary thought - THEY CAN BE USED FOR GOOD THINGS TOO.

 

[frogomatic]

like FEELING safe makes ANY difference what-so-ever. This world is NOT a safe place, and no ammount of disarmament, legislation, protection, or anything else will ever change that. If you just want to FEEL safe, then go hide in a bomb shelter. Oh, wait, I forgot about the 'bunker buster' bombs, scratch that idea...

Carrying a firearm doesn't make me safe, it just puts the criminals in an equal ammount of danger.

 

[willbrink]

Im not seeing where the responses are posted to this "article" and it still says "Be the first to comment on this story"

What am I missing here?

 

[StuckInMA]

Metal Detectors

Or what about installing shields on the desks or putting metal detectors at the entrances to schools?

MA already uses metal detectors in some schools. Either I'm misunderstanding his comment or he needs to do a little more homework.

Oh, and BTW, they don't always work.

Teen accused of taking shotgun to school
Student said he feared for his life
By John R. Ellement and Tracy Jan, Globe Staff | June 2, 2006

A 16-year-old Mattapan youth, who told his lawyer he feared for his own life, allegedly smuggled a disassembled 12-gauge shotgun and seven rounds for the weapon into a Boston public high school, where it was discovered yesterday, officials said.

The teen, whose name was not released because of his age, was arrested at the Edward G. Noonan Business Academy , where he is a sophomore, officials said. The academy is housed in the former Dorchester High School. It is one of the Boston public schools where metal detectors are used to screen students for weapons.

Officials are investigating how the gun got past metal detectors, said John Sisco, chief of school police. The Noonan Academy has had a walk-through metal detector since it opened at its present location in 2003.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/06/02/teen_accused_of_taking_shotgun_to_school/

 

[woodybrighton]

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm

thats the UK anti gun site list of crime and mayhem caused by guns you can see most of the gun crime includes kids with lethal air soft springers yes air soft guns can kill especially if you try to choke the little **** who tried to shoot you with one.
these numpties want practical style shooting banned because its naughty.
just sent them a bad tempered rant we achieved a total handgun ban but there were 4000 hadgun crimes last year so that working well then.

 

[ArmedBear]

Guns are not a solution. How do I know this? Because I've soaked them in various solvents, and they never dissolve.

 

[Cavalier Knight]

Please join the NRA today. The ANTI's would pay twice as much to stop you yet you walk away & let them do it for nothing!

I live in NYC but I still "chose" to become a NRA LIFE MEMBER. As well as a NRA Recruiter in NYC no less!

$25 dollars gets you one year at $10 below the basic rate providing us with PRO RKBA support. Just $20 for LEO's.

Please utilize the provided links below as they will provide you with the discounted rate. I apologize for preaching to the choir but a hard head makes a soft behind!

Thank you for your continued support.

LEO's can access their link from my site menu at the 1st link below for Small Armz

All others can access it from my site or directly from the 2nd link below.
__________________

 

[calsdad]

I couldn't resist - I just posted the following response to his article:

It is good to see that the continuing effort of our higher education system to fill our minds with ill-informed opinions is succeeding. Unfortunately as you graduate you will find that the reality of the world does not quite match up to a lot of the things you were taught in school.

Since the author of this article did not see fit to actually research the reality behind some of his opinions (do they teach the difference between fact and opinion any more?) - lets state some facts.

1) The NRA is not some mysterious organization supported by evil corporations, it is made up of millions of VOLUNTARY members - many of whom contribute money over and above their yearly dues because they believe in the mission of the organization. Furthermore the history of the NRA is one of protecting one of the most basic of civil rights - the right to self defense. They have defended this right during their entire history - including defending the rights of newly freed slaves in the South after the Civil War to defend themselves against armed attacks against their families. Before you ignorantly denigrate the organization - you might want to do a little research the next time.

2) Have you never wondered why there are so many school shootings and shootings of people in places where guns are supposed to be banned? Hmmmm? When was the last time you heard of a gunman breaking into a shooting range and going on a rampage? The last time you heard of a gunman going to an army base - or a police station, and going on a rampage? Why do homicidal people choose to go to places where they know people are unarmed - and unable to defend themselves? Do you know that there has been verified research that suggests that firearms are used by U.S. citizens millions of times a year to defend themselves against crimes? And in most cases the very fact that a firearm is present in the hands of a would-be victim is enough to dissuade the criminal from pursuing the crime? Do you know that school shootings were regular occurences in places like Israel and Thailand that have problems with terrorists - until they armed the teachers that is?

3) Did you know that crime rates in Britain and Australia - two countries that pretty much completely banned civilian ownership of firearms - have significantly increased since these bans went into effect? Including in Britain a drastic rise in the amount of armed home invasions (TIP: it's easier to take peoples stuff when you can put a gun to their head and get them to show you where the stuff is - and know that they can't fight back).

4) A little historical insight might be useful to those who think that firearms are only used to commit crimes - or that only bad people use firearms. Did you know that all of the genocides committed in the 20th century were preceded by gun registration and confiscation? Something like 170 million people were killed by governments during the 20th century - I would be willing to bet there were at least a few million of those who wished they had a gun in their hands as they were led to the firing squad pit - or the gas chamber. If you do not believe that a well armed population can defend itself - then you need to look at the history of the Swiss. During WWII they armed a very high percentage of their population - and successfully resisted Nazi occupation thru that and thru negotiation and diplomacy. Without firearms - and the training and will to use them the Swiss people would have been occupied like all the other countries of Europe during WWII.

5) Did you know that the police are NOT OBLIGATED TO DEFEND YOU AGAINST CRIME? Numerous court rulings have shown that the police cannot be sued if they fail to protect you against a criminal act. What this means in the end is exactly what the Constitution tried to spell out for us: we are responsible for our own safety. What this means in practice is that people are responsible for themselves in the end - no matter what your ill-informed opinions on the matter may be. The police can never be guaranteed to be there to protect you. And as incidents like Columbine showed - even when they do show up - they often will not protect you even then. The shooting incidents that you detail should be enough evidence of this - but for years now the tally of bodies that continue to pile up as innocents are slaughtered are never enough to convince the ignorant that maybe another way needs to be found to prevent this murder. They always resort to the usual "it must be the guns" mantra. Personal responsibility, morality, and training in self defense never enter their minds.

The truth of the matter is this: those who choose to be victims by refusing to defend themselves will be sought as victims by those who wish to rob, murder, and oppress them. We live in a free society - so you are free to choose victimhood if you like. But what you are not free to do is choose victimhood for the rest of us. There are many of us who are law abiding citizens, who have spent significant amounts of our time and money to train and equip ourselves for self defense - and have never committed a crime or threatened another person with firearms. Lumping us in with criminals simply because we choose to use and master an inanimate object is immoral and borders on criminal in and of itself. When schools band their students from defending themselves - that responsibility should rest on the school. If a school cannot defend it's students who are under assault that school should be criminally liable as an accomplice to murder. To criminals a school full of undefended lives makes an inviting target. To a terrorist it is an even more inviting target still. The Beslan incident in Russia a few years back illustrates this. Our own government has admitted that they believe schools here in this country may well be in the sites of terrorists. Read the book "Terror at Beslan" - and get back to me if you think that disarming our schools is still such a good idea.

If the day comes that one of our disarmed schools is attacked by terrorists - and they take hostages as they did at Beslan - I hope that all of the people who have pushed so hard to have our schools disarmed will stand up for their beliefs and volunteer to take the place of hostages who were not able to defend themselves because they were banned from carrying firearms while on school property. At you take that action I will at least give you the respect of standing up for your beliefs - until then - you will get none.

Let's see if the moderator lets it thru.

 

[Rachen]

Well I can say that the author of that article is against

the First Amendment as well as the Second. Your posts have not appeared yet on his page, and for all we know, the author could have deleted them already.

 

[Erebus]

Responses still have not appeared. Either the thing is not working or no one has agreed with him.

 

[Crimson]

It's true that guns are not the solution, guns are a means
personal self defense is the solution

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Considering the Dan Rather fabrication and the NY TImes fabrication, (not to mention numerous lesser known fabrications that occur on the evening news daily) it would seem to me that journalists don't have the moral compass to be allowed to write articles either.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Considering the Dan Rather fabrication and the NY TImes fabrication, (not to mention numerous lesser known fabrications that occur on the evening news daily) it would seem to me that journalists don't have the moral compass to be allowed to write articles either.

Honor Graduate of the Dan Rather School of Journalistic Ethics: "We have a study here that prooves guns cause violence, halitosis, male pattern baldness, impotence and phlibitis."

Sceptical Listener: "That study is a forgery."

HGOTDRSOJE: "Yes. But what it says is true."

SL: "How do you know that?"

HGOTDRSOJE: "Because the study says so!"

 

[cnorman18]

There's a reason

There's a reason this kid is so ignorant.

In January of 2002, a student at the Appalachian Law School in Grundy, Virginia, decided to go on a Virginia Tech-style shooting spree. It went nowhere, because two legally armed students pulled their own weapons and pointed them at him.

Great story for our side, right?

Well, it would have been. Out of 294 press stories listed in Lexis/Nexis, how many do you think reported that this potential mass murderer was stopped by ARMED students?

Three (3).

Though the facts were well known from the start, the papers reported that the shooter was "subdued" or even "tackled" by other students. Their guns were not mentioned.

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/postsbyd...lawschool.html

Guns ARE the answer, but the MSM will never admit it.

Anyone who tells you that MSM reporting is not driven by a left-wing agenda should be asked to explain the omission of the facts from this story.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

Wow... that's some terrible writing. Is something like this even worth us worrying about?