Yes. I suppose some cop is going to follow me to the range, pick up fired cases and dig bullets out of the berm? Or take my gun and run it through the lab for a crime completely unrelated to me?
Guns in no registration states
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Yes. I suppose some cop is going to follow me to the range, pick up fired cases and dig bullets out of the berm? Or take my gun and run it through the lab for a crime completely unrelated to me?
earlthegoat2
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Don’t get into milsurps if you are worried about bodies on guns.
tommy.duncan
Member
Absolutely!!
dogtown tom
Member
Do you think the same thing when you see the plastic knives and forks at McDonalds? The sledgehammers at Home Depot?
Good grief.
I suspect that the OP's point was that it is easier to sell a gun that has been used in a crime when no FFL or background check is required. Otherwise the gun must be thrown away. This logic is flawed in at least two ways, however. When an FFL takes a gun in there is no history that comes with it. The FFL has no idea what the gun has been used for. The second problem is that if a gun is supposed to be sold through an FFL, criminals tend not to follow the law so it will likely be sold, traded or otherwise handled in a manner unlikely to conform to the law or leave a paper trail.
mokin
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I admit I think about that. There was a thread some years back about the stories milsurps could tell. Many of mine wouldn't tell stories in English. Although I know my guns are inanimate objects, I hope none of them have been traumatized.
westernrover
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"Ballistics" are good at identifying the type/model of rifled-bore gun used to fire a bullet, but not so good at identifying the particular firearm -- that's the stuff of movies and tv shows. I've recovered plenty of bullets that I've shot and I can clearly see the rifling on the bullet shank. Theoretically, the individual anomalies of a single bore could be "matched" to the engraving on the recovered bullet, but this would more often than not be totally impractical. What is useful nonetheless, are the macro characteristics of the caliber and engraving. It doesn't take a forensics wizard to measure .355", .400", .451" and count the number of lands engraved on the bullet and whether they're left-hand or right-hand twist and at what rate. Polygonal rifling and the direction of twist would also be obvious. As an example, if a 124 grain Federal HST bullet recovered shows 1:10 RH twist with 6-groove rifling, it would be a match for a perp who was known to have used a Springfield Hellcat, whereas it would clear the cop who used a Glock with 124 grain Federal HST bullets in the same shootout.
Could the 'slug' be matched to a specific gun with a specific serial number if nothing else was known? It's not impossible, but the bore would have to have something unique, some kind of unique damage or flaw that engraved the bullet. Older broach cut rifling might have been more likely to produce that, but CHF or ECM rifling is less likely to. Also, a damaged or flawed broach might cut the same characteristic mark into every bore it was used to cut -- such that a "ballistics match" might constitute a "preponderance of evidence" but fall short of "beyond a shadow of a doubt." As it was already mentioned, the bore can change over time with wear, so if the analysis is not done soon after the shooting, the matching engravure will be lost. What's more, barrels are not unique to a gun with a particular serial number nor are barrels controlled through regulation. They can easily be swapped, replaced, not to mention things like fire-lapping or polishing that would alter the bore characteristics.
I agree that for a criminal, it is much easier and more likely to sell a crime gun through unlawful means than daring to re-enter it into lawful circulation. When private sales were allowed without an FFL mediator, buyers and sellers often demanded to see ID and sign a bill-of-sale which each party could keep a copy of. Lawful buyers and sellers want to do the right thing, which includes ensuring the government doesn't over-reach its authority and also that criminals aren't encouraged or enabled. The over-reach of government authority and interference does not reduce lawlessness.
Could the 'slug' be matched to a specific gun with a specific serial number if nothing else was known? It's not impossible, but the bore would have to have something unique, some kind of unique damage or flaw that engraved the bullet. Older broach cut rifling might have been more likely to produce that, but CHF or ECM rifling is less likely to. Also, a damaged or flawed broach might cut the same characteristic mark into every bore it was used to cut -- such that a "ballistics match" might constitute a "preponderance of evidence" but fall short of "beyond a shadow of a doubt." As it was already mentioned, the bore can change over time with wear, so if the analysis is not done soon after the shooting, the matching engravure will be lost. What's more, barrels are not unique to a gun with a particular serial number nor are barrels controlled through regulation. They can easily be swapped, replaced, not to mention things like fire-lapping or polishing that would alter the bore characteristics.
I agree that for a criminal, it is much easier and more likely to sell a crime gun through unlawful means than daring to re-enter it into lawful circulation. When private sales were allowed without an FFL mediator, buyers and sellers often demanded to see ID and sign a bill-of-sale which each party could keep a copy of. Lawful buyers and sellers want to do the right thing, which includes ensuring the government doesn't over-reach its authority and also that criminals aren't encouraged or enabled. The over-reach of government authority and interference does not reduce lawlessness.
bdickens
Member
News flash: Hollywood is fake.
tommy.duncan
Member
Okay, Let's get criminals to start following the law...oh...okay...
OP
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Handshaker
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As opposed to your computer screen? lol. Why do you think criminals throw their gun off a bridge? Because they ran out of rocks to skip? No, it has a body on it....
General Geoff
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Because criminals believe all the fake hollywood stuff just as much as you do?
bdickens
Member
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
dogtown tom
Member
Then they aren't selling it are they?
Your point in the OP is that criminals sell guns with a "body count"....yet now they throw them off bridges.
OP
OP
Handshaker
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So you believe everything on the net and not your tv? Wow. I tell you what, ask ANY LE about the things I mentioned and see what he says. Man you are clearly clueless too. Gun bores and firing pins have fingerprints that can and are tracked when the LE submits them for testing. My buddy I grew up with is a NCIS agent, we discuss these things regularly because it interests me.
OP
OP
Handshaker
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Ah so your a mind reader and know what a criminal is going to do with his gun? Some throw them away some sell them, hopefully you have one...Then they aren't selling it are they?
Your point in the OP is that criminals sell guns with a "body count"....yet now they throw them off bridges.
N555
Member
I think you are confusing what's shown on crime drama tv show with 48hrs.
Plus who leaves behind brass?
Might as well leave the gun at the crime scene and drop your wallet too. Oh and don't forget to brag about what happened to a bunch of people at the bar.
tommy.duncan
Member
I work at a LGS in Northern Virginia. Turn off the TV and have Jethro give me a call.
The Night Rider
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Do you think the same thing when you see the plastic knives and forks at McDonalds? The sledgehammers at Home Depot?
Good grief.
I'd be more worried about the Big Macs at McDonald's
General Geoff
Member
Law enforcement officers are encouraged and trained to lie to people in order to get confessions. I have no reason to believe any opinion of law enforcement, especially when it comes to evidence they may or may not actually have against you.
LEOs are individuals, so no broad brushes, please. We are wandering off the trail here, so will stay open to discuss the OP's belief that requiring FFL involvement and background checks reduces use of guns in criminal activity. Please remember this is The High Road. If we have nothing more on point, we'll close the curtains.
Pudge
Member
If anyone believes that buying a firearm from an FFL protects them from buying a firearm used in a crim, they are naive.
General Geoff
Member
The title is about registration, actually. I'd like to point out that in the United States, it is established case law that prohibited criminals are not required to register their firearms even where registration is mandatory, as that would violate their 5th amendment right against self-incrimination.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/390/85/
Essentially, registration itself does not apply to prohibited persons.
bdickens
Member
And the fact that they enforce the law doesn't necessarily mean they know what it is....
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