Freezebyte
member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 101
I need help/suggestions/incite into something very deep and personal to me and this thread is going to be long, complex and personal. If you have nothing POSITIVE to say or contribute, PLEASE stay out and keep your opinion to yourself.
I'll go into as much detail as I can without going overboard and hitting on the major points of my life up till now to help you know what im asking help about.
I grew up with a father who taught me the responsibility and usage of guns. He had a few revolvers when I was growing up and sold them for money for other things and rarely used them except while in the woods for target shooting. He taught to ALWAYS treat weapons with respect and care for them. On a somber note, his father killed himself with a handgun after giving up on life from stress and alcohol when he was younger; something that still affects my father to this day. In short, I knew guns were to be respected and treated as such at all times. Guess that’s off to a good start.
My first REAL gun was a .22LR Marlin rifle after years of pellet and BB guns. I got it when I was around 15-16. I have shot a few other guns from random people at various times but guns weren’t a huge factor in my life and I thought they were cool from what I saw of them, but I didn't get heavily into it.
Since moving out finally when I turned 25 *back in summer 05* I began to really flex my independence muscles and started to see and experience the world in a new light, away from my parents upbringing and protection. I had thought owning my own gun for a few years up until now. Recently as of last year, I was very interested in purchasing a shotgun for home defense as I felt maybe it was time to invest in something could save me and my loved ones lives someday, especially with how things are going in this world.
That being said, I grew up in a very safe and comfortable living in Montana where the world of crimes, gangs, thieves and what not were very foreign and far away from me. I only new and saw what I watched on the TV and movies. The idea of murders and shootings in my own neighborhood was simply beyond me, I couldn't grasp or understand living life like that. I was used to *and still am* staying in my "Safety bubble" where the world didn’t trouble or bother me and I didn’t’ go out of my way to leave my safety and comfort zone. This is something me and the girlfriend have discussed/argued about many times before in our relationship, but that’s whole nother topic
Still living in Montana for the time being however, I have begun to really notice the changes around my once "peaceful" town. Murders rates have risen and gotten uncomfortably close to where I live or have spent time at. Crime has gotten higher with more vandalism, especially in regards to cars and houses that where once very quiet and safe neighborhoods, including my childhood house. For the past few years, the reports have been growing in regards to vandalism for people’s cars, breaking and stealing stuff from lawns and open garages. The safe and trustworthy neighborhood I grew up with was changing, and it scared me and my parents.
They still live there and luckily, nothing major has happened other then some kids walking into their open garage one night and taking my fathers smoking pipes and tobacco, ignoring the thousands of dollars worth of downhill skiis, mountain bikes, hiking equipment and such. However, I can't help but wonder how long will it be for something very bad happens closer to my former upbringing home.
I'm already seeing in my apartment neighborhood. It’s a lower income area due to the cheap nature of the apartments. It’s nice and clean and well lit, but for the first time in my life, I was experiencing cop sirens running through the back alleys, arrests for domestic disputes only a few doors away from me and a few people's doors being knocked on very late in the night and the shouting and screaming of arguments and fights only a wall away from me.
Around my area, the signs of the times were also showing. Gang and wannabe gang signs and graffiti mark area’s here and there, on walls, sidewalks, buildings and sometimes signs. People are becoming more "weirder" and "sketchy" looking in the downtown area or when the night time comes. Teenagers zip around in crotch rockets at high speeds not caring who they cut off or how fast their going down narrow streets. I'm seeing ALOT more Goth looking and very depressed looking kids and teenagers wandering the streets at all times during the day that I can’t help but feel very unsafe and unsecure when I am around them, even in a public place. Going downtown at night just to a local bar scares the crap out of me, as I’m afraid im going to be hassled by some teens or jumped by a begger or robber, even though the likeylhood of such a thing in my town is very slim.
Not more then a few weeks ago however, one of my local banks branch’s that I visited often was robbed by a guy with an assault weapon that fired into the ceiling and led the police on a chase across town. Only to have a gun fight between eachother and him going down. Now I began to feel VERY vulnerable, as if the black void and evils of the world that I pretended I was immune to, were start to slowly close in around me and my safety bubble was going to be popped.
I grew up and am still a quiet natured computer nerd. I didn't have many friends in my life, and I was picked on and bullied most of my school years. I have few close friends still and I love my family dearly and have always honored my mother and father for all that they have done for me and my sister over the years. I know how it feels to be picked on and harassed so I have never had the courage or desire to do the same to other people, regardless of intent.
I'm at a crossroads. I am feeling the pull of my independent self wanting to "take action" and "Be prepared" for whatever may come my way in the coming years. I feel compelled and pulled to start becoming more mentally stronger in myself and how I view society. I'm sick of feeling weak and unable to stand my ground against people. I hate having to feel like I’m completely useless in stressful situations, as if I couldn't protect myself as I just don't have that "fighting blood" within me. I have never been good with conflicts all my life, even to this day when my father has a temper fit, its VERY hard for me to summon up the courage to tell him to chill out. Or in another case, tell my best friend that he needs to get his act together and get mental help for himself so he can help support and raise his family of four children instead of drinking and refusing to take responsibility for his actions.
Since purchasing my first ever handgun and gun in general for myself, i've been feeling a "torn" feeling between what I know, feel and felt all my life and what I could become if I decide if I wish to take a more "aggressive" stance at life and stop sitting on the sidelines waiting for fate/God to intervene with dangerous situations and deal with it accordingly.
I was raised Lutheran and have Christ as my savior and i've learned much about myself and my faith as I have gotten older. At the same time, with my freedom of being on my own with my also Lutheran and very open minded girlfriend, we have many aspects and viewpoints that lean on the far left and also on the far right. I guess you could classify me as a "Centrist" that take both a little from the left and right viewpoints and none of anything I don't like.
Which leads me up to this question that i've been pondering for sometime and not sure how or even if it can be answered. I believe in God and thought my faith is definitely not strong in comparison to some, I have to believe that over looking the course of my 28 years on this imperfect world that I have been watched over and protected by powers beyond my comprehension of understanding. It has served me well in that the words of the bible stating "God will only give you so much that you can handle"
For the most part, I agree that the difficult times in my life at their points seemed impossible or unable to be solved. Yet time and time again, as my mother stated over and over when I was a child "Things work out in the end"
And that leaves me to the biggest question I have for myself as a imperfect human being. How far and willing am I going to take my self defense and protection with a firearm too? Am I truly capable of being able to step up to this new mountain of unknowns to face evils and trouble that may or may not come my way? I've learned much about guns, safety and utilization and legal ramifications of guns in the few short months i've been a personal gun owner.
I am having a personality clash. Part of me wishes to believe that this world is truly not getting better and that its simply not right or morally correct for me NOT to take my American right and freedom to arm myself to protect me and my loved ones from danger, which way or may not come Gods will dependent. However, I also feel a clash somehow going to this next step in personal security makes me feel not myself. I've always just waited things out and hoped for the best rather then taking stiff action to solve a solution. Basically, I crossed my fingers, did what I could and didn't lead myself or anyone else into sticky situations and fight my way out as a hero. I much preferred following the leader all my life and im at a crossroads to decide if I want to change that.
I've been a good law abiding citizen all my life. A few speeding tickets and police pull over’s but beyond that, I have been pretty much a clean slate in regards to my criminal history, or lack thereof. I have known policemen and law enforcement officers both family and friend and I greatly respected and feared them. Is is that same fear that makes me VERY uneasy about taking up arms to protect myself from a situation or person that may or may not happen to me. The idea of having to face and talk to a police officer on the street if I was open carrying a gun around scares the living sh1t out of me. No joke, the concept of going to this next level of "freedom" and the whole legal and law can of worms it may open up compels me to say "Back the hell up, I’m not cut out for this kinda thing, I am not a conflict kind of person in a face to face basis, so I sure as hell don’t' need to be introducing new stress and trouble in my life by carrying around a firearm. I should just go back to being a quiet computer nerd, do my thing and hope fate/God protects me from such things”
And there's what it boils down too. What do I leave to fate/chance/God and what do I do to take action on my part? How much am I willing to leave to the chance that something may or may not happen that will require my usage of a firearm against another human being vs keeping my faith and hope that it simply doesn't happen to me, but to someone else. The problem is, I AM that someone else TO someone else as well.
I spoke with my father earlier tonight and I told him about the CCW course I had signed up for and his voice changed to his usual serious and stern tone. The conversation went something like this
"Why would you want a CCW?"
"I dunno, because I can, I like the idea that I can protect myself an others from threats from society. But its really scary at the same time, and im not sure if im ready for that level of responsibility yet or ever"
"If you were living in LA or a another crime ridden city, I'd say absolutely, however your still living in Montana and the police will be asking ALOT of question and pulling you aside if they find out your carrying a piece"
"Yeah true, I am concerned about, I’ve never been good about conflicts, let alone starting one"
"I've thought about joining you on the CCW course but I’ve decided that im not going to. There is simply to much stress and responsibility that goes with. I carried my .44 mag when we went on family trips in the vehicle and when we camped but beyond, I simply don't see the reason to be armed 24/7 and I don’t want to be finger printed and watched by the government more then I already am”
"I haven't made any decisions either way, but the older I get the more I realize that this world isn't getting much better and I feel it might be a bad idea not to start taking action to protect myself and others from society’s problems"
"I wouldn't recommend it. Its simply to much for you to handle, especially with your mental condition *I am diagnosed with OCD and have been on medication for 10+ years* I remember years ago at the mall at the sporting good store I was managing watching a few gentlemen with pieces on their belts walking in and causing a real stir and worry among people around them. They said it was "Their God given and American right and freedom" I agreed but I also believed that was fine for hunting season and back woods trekking, NOT for walking around a public mall in, even though it may be legal. I asked them to leave and they did and I never saw them again"
"I dunno dad, part of me is compelled and driven to try this and see how it feels to be empowered with so much power and responsibility. I've been so used to a safety shell and bubble all my life and I'm basically wonder if I want to really *pop* it or not"
"Again, I don't recommend it. Carry bear spray and hit people with that and they will WISH they were dead and its alot more legal to carry around without disastrous results. My opinion is no, not to do it, but I can't tell you what to do, that’s up to you"
What should I do? Do I finally test and stress the outer limits of who and what I am by becoming an armed citizen? Do I start taking in the stress and responsibility of carrying a firearm at my side and the ramifications that come with that? Or am I just going through this as another side hobby? Nothing more then "I want to try this and say, yes this is fun or no, this is boring, I’ve moving on?"
Do I just keep to myself in my safety bubble and just keep living my comfortable and safe existence as myself and not stress my boundaries and keep hoping that fate/God/luck will be on my side in all future situations.
I am asking for any incite suggestions, tips, personal experience and some prayers to help me come to a decision of what to do.
If I am already uncomfortable with the idea of dealing with police and the legal ramifications and responsibilities of handling and carrying a firearm, is that that a big signal that I’m just not cut out to be one of the many "armed" US citizens? Am I just better of sticking to what I know best which is living my life how I see fit and comfortable and handle the bad/dangerous situations as they come and pray that somehow I or people in my life come out all right via fate/luck/God? Or do I take a stance and start to really stretch the outer of limits of who I am and who I can become and these are just the growing pains that I am not accustomed to for living in a safety net for so long.
Thanks everyone for reading and listening in. I’m grateful for any words that can help me find clarity during this confusing time in my life.
I'll go into as much detail as I can without going overboard and hitting on the major points of my life up till now to help you know what im asking help about.
I grew up with a father who taught me the responsibility and usage of guns. He had a few revolvers when I was growing up and sold them for money for other things and rarely used them except while in the woods for target shooting. He taught to ALWAYS treat weapons with respect and care for them. On a somber note, his father killed himself with a handgun after giving up on life from stress and alcohol when he was younger; something that still affects my father to this day. In short, I knew guns were to be respected and treated as such at all times. Guess that’s off to a good start.
My first REAL gun was a .22LR Marlin rifle after years of pellet and BB guns. I got it when I was around 15-16. I have shot a few other guns from random people at various times but guns weren’t a huge factor in my life and I thought they were cool from what I saw of them, but I didn't get heavily into it.
Since moving out finally when I turned 25 *back in summer 05* I began to really flex my independence muscles and started to see and experience the world in a new light, away from my parents upbringing and protection. I had thought owning my own gun for a few years up until now. Recently as of last year, I was very interested in purchasing a shotgun for home defense as I felt maybe it was time to invest in something could save me and my loved ones lives someday, especially with how things are going in this world.
That being said, I grew up in a very safe and comfortable living in Montana where the world of crimes, gangs, thieves and what not were very foreign and far away from me. I only new and saw what I watched on the TV and movies. The idea of murders and shootings in my own neighborhood was simply beyond me, I couldn't grasp or understand living life like that. I was used to *and still am* staying in my "Safety bubble" where the world didn’t trouble or bother me and I didn’t’ go out of my way to leave my safety and comfort zone. This is something me and the girlfriend have discussed/argued about many times before in our relationship, but that’s whole nother topic
Still living in Montana for the time being however, I have begun to really notice the changes around my once "peaceful" town. Murders rates have risen and gotten uncomfortably close to where I live or have spent time at. Crime has gotten higher with more vandalism, especially in regards to cars and houses that where once very quiet and safe neighborhoods, including my childhood house. For the past few years, the reports have been growing in regards to vandalism for people’s cars, breaking and stealing stuff from lawns and open garages. The safe and trustworthy neighborhood I grew up with was changing, and it scared me and my parents.
They still live there and luckily, nothing major has happened other then some kids walking into their open garage one night and taking my fathers smoking pipes and tobacco, ignoring the thousands of dollars worth of downhill skiis, mountain bikes, hiking equipment and such. However, I can't help but wonder how long will it be for something very bad happens closer to my former upbringing home.
I'm already seeing in my apartment neighborhood. It’s a lower income area due to the cheap nature of the apartments. It’s nice and clean and well lit, but for the first time in my life, I was experiencing cop sirens running through the back alleys, arrests for domestic disputes only a few doors away from me and a few people's doors being knocked on very late in the night and the shouting and screaming of arguments and fights only a wall away from me.
Around my area, the signs of the times were also showing. Gang and wannabe gang signs and graffiti mark area’s here and there, on walls, sidewalks, buildings and sometimes signs. People are becoming more "weirder" and "sketchy" looking in the downtown area or when the night time comes. Teenagers zip around in crotch rockets at high speeds not caring who they cut off or how fast their going down narrow streets. I'm seeing ALOT more Goth looking and very depressed looking kids and teenagers wandering the streets at all times during the day that I can’t help but feel very unsafe and unsecure when I am around them, even in a public place. Going downtown at night just to a local bar scares the crap out of me, as I’m afraid im going to be hassled by some teens or jumped by a begger or robber, even though the likeylhood of such a thing in my town is very slim.
Not more then a few weeks ago however, one of my local banks branch’s that I visited often was robbed by a guy with an assault weapon that fired into the ceiling and led the police on a chase across town. Only to have a gun fight between eachother and him going down. Now I began to feel VERY vulnerable, as if the black void and evils of the world that I pretended I was immune to, were start to slowly close in around me and my safety bubble was going to be popped.
I grew up and am still a quiet natured computer nerd. I didn't have many friends in my life, and I was picked on and bullied most of my school years. I have few close friends still and I love my family dearly and have always honored my mother and father for all that they have done for me and my sister over the years. I know how it feels to be picked on and harassed so I have never had the courage or desire to do the same to other people, regardless of intent.
I'm at a crossroads. I am feeling the pull of my independent self wanting to "take action" and "Be prepared" for whatever may come my way in the coming years. I feel compelled and pulled to start becoming more mentally stronger in myself and how I view society. I'm sick of feeling weak and unable to stand my ground against people. I hate having to feel like I’m completely useless in stressful situations, as if I couldn't protect myself as I just don't have that "fighting blood" within me. I have never been good with conflicts all my life, even to this day when my father has a temper fit, its VERY hard for me to summon up the courage to tell him to chill out. Or in another case, tell my best friend that he needs to get his act together and get mental help for himself so he can help support and raise his family of four children instead of drinking and refusing to take responsibility for his actions.
Since purchasing my first ever handgun and gun in general for myself, i've been feeling a "torn" feeling between what I know, feel and felt all my life and what I could become if I decide if I wish to take a more "aggressive" stance at life and stop sitting on the sidelines waiting for fate/God to intervene with dangerous situations and deal with it accordingly.
I was raised Lutheran and have Christ as my savior and i've learned much about myself and my faith as I have gotten older. At the same time, with my freedom of being on my own with my also Lutheran and very open minded girlfriend, we have many aspects and viewpoints that lean on the far left and also on the far right. I guess you could classify me as a "Centrist" that take both a little from the left and right viewpoints and none of anything I don't like.
Which leads me up to this question that i've been pondering for sometime and not sure how or even if it can be answered. I believe in God and thought my faith is definitely not strong in comparison to some, I have to believe that over looking the course of my 28 years on this imperfect world that I have been watched over and protected by powers beyond my comprehension of understanding. It has served me well in that the words of the bible stating "God will only give you so much that you can handle"
For the most part, I agree that the difficult times in my life at their points seemed impossible or unable to be solved. Yet time and time again, as my mother stated over and over when I was a child "Things work out in the end"
And that leaves me to the biggest question I have for myself as a imperfect human being. How far and willing am I going to take my self defense and protection with a firearm too? Am I truly capable of being able to step up to this new mountain of unknowns to face evils and trouble that may or may not come my way? I've learned much about guns, safety and utilization and legal ramifications of guns in the few short months i've been a personal gun owner.
I am having a personality clash. Part of me wishes to believe that this world is truly not getting better and that its simply not right or morally correct for me NOT to take my American right and freedom to arm myself to protect me and my loved ones from danger, which way or may not come Gods will dependent. However, I also feel a clash somehow going to this next step in personal security makes me feel not myself. I've always just waited things out and hoped for the best rather then taking stiff action to solve a solution. Basically, I crossed my fingers, did what I could and didn't lead myself or anyone else into sticky situations and fight my way out as a hero. I much preferred following the leader all my life and im at a crossroads to decide if I want to change that.
I've been a good law abiding citizen all my life. A few speeding tickets and police pull over’s but beyond that, I have been pretty much a clean slate in regards to my criminal history, or lack thereof. I have known policemen and law enforcement officers both family and friend and I greatly respected and feared them. Is is that same fear that makes me VERY uneasy about taking up arms to protect myself from a situation or person that may or may not happen to me. The idea of having to face and talk to a police officer on the street if I was open carrying a gun around scares the living sh1t out of me. No joke, the concept of going to this next level of "freedom" and the whole legal and law can of worms it may open up compels me to say "Back the hell up, I’m not cut out for this kinda thing, I am not a conflict kind of person in a face to face basis, so I sure as hell don’t' need to be introducing new stress and trouble in my life by carrying around a firearm. I should just go back to being a quiet computer nerd, do my thing and hope fate/God protects me from such things”
And there's what it boils down too. What do I leave to fate/chance/God and what do I do to take action on my part? How much am I willing to leave to the chance that something may or may not happen that will require my usage of a firearm against another human being vs keeping my faith and hope that it simply doesn't happen to me, but to someone else. The problem is, I AM that someone else TO someone else as well.
I spoke with my father earlier tonight and I told him about the CCW course I had signed up for and his voice changed to his usual serious and stern tone. The conversation went something like this
"Why would you want a CCW?"
"I dunno, because I can, I like the idea that I can protect myself an others from threats from society. But its really scary at the same time, and im not sure if im ready for that level of responsibility yet or ever"
"If you were living in LA or a another crime ridden city, I'd say absolutely, however your still living in Montana and the police will be asking ALOT of question and pulling you aside if they find out your carrying a piece"
"Yeah true, I am concerned about, I’ve never been good about conflicts, let alone starting one"
"I've thought about joining you on the CCW course but I’ve decided that im not going to. There is simply to much stress and responsibility that goes with. I carried my .44 mag when we went on family trips in the vehicle and when we camped but beyond, I simply don't see the reason to be armed 24/7 and I don’t want to be finger printed and watched by the government more then I already am”
"I haven't made any decisions either way, but the older I get the more I realize that this world isn't getting much better and I feel it might be a bad idea not to start taking action to protect myself and others from society’s problems"
"I wouldn't recommend it. Its simply to much for you to handle, especially with your mental condition *I am diagnosed with OCD and have been on medication for 10+ years* I remember years ago at the mall at the sporting good store I was managing watching a few gentlemen with pieces on their belts walking in and causing a real stir and worry among people around them. They said it was "Their God given and American right and freedom" I agreed but I also believed that was fine for hunting season and back woods trekking, NOT for walking around a public mall in, even though it may be legal. I asked them to leave and they did and I never saw them again"
"I dunno dad, part of me is compelled and driven to try this and see how it feels to be empowered with so much power and responsibility. I've been so used to a safety shell and bubble all my life and I'm basically wonder if I want to really *pop* it or not"
"Again, I don't recommend it. Carry bear spray and hit people with that and they will WISH they were dead and its alot more legal to carry around without disastrous results. My opinion is no, not to do it, but I can't tell you what to do, that’s up to you"
What should I do? Do I finally test and stress the outer limits of who and what I am by becoming an armed citizen? Do I start taking in the stress and responsibility of carrying a firearm at my side and the ramifications that come with that? Or am I just going through this as another side hobby? Nothing more then "I want to try this and say, yes this is fun or no, this is boring, I’ve moving on?"
Do I just keep to myself in my safety bubble and just keep living my comfortable and safe existence as myself and not stress my boundaries and keep hoping that fate/God/luck will be on my side in all future situations.
I am asking for any incite suggestions, tips, personal experience and some prayers to help me come to a decision of what to do.
If I am already uncomfortable with the idea of dealing with police and the legal ramifications and responsibilities of handling and carrying a firearm, is that that a big signal that I’m just not cut out to be one of the many "armed" US citizens? Am I just better of sticking to what I know best which is living my life how I see fit and comfortable and handle the bad/dangerous situations as they come and pray that somehow I or people in my life come out all right via fate/luck/God? Or do I take a stance and start to really stretch the outer of limits of who I am and who I can become and these are just the growing pains that I am not accustomed to for living in a safety net for so long.
Thanks everyone for reading and listening in. I’m grateful for any words that can help me find clarity during this confusing time in my life.
