Guns not wanted in "family-friendly" Target

[SuperNaut]

Why not? If you can get enough signatures, why not?
Moms DEMAND Action did it? Why not you?

Nonsense response.

Some here have been fighting for 2A causes their entire lives.

This is a forum full of potential allies that you are alienating, well done.

 

[TennJed]

So far I have only seen one photo of an open carrier that is referenced as being in Target.
I have not read any stories in the news about groups of people with rifles continuously showing up at Target, or any other location for that matter.
You see, aside from Chiploltes(?) and the one image from Target, I have yet to see this occurring at any level to scare the public.
Believe it or not, MDA is trolling FaceBook looking for gun photos and using them as "proof" that "millions of people" are doing it all across the nation.

In case you haven't noticed, you are flat out wrong. Nobody is trolling facebook looking for photos. OCT is posing for them. Everywhere they can

 

[TennJed]

I noticed that only two of the pictures were tagged as OCT. The rest of them? Pfft...
So what? What is there, twenty people or so armed (not everyone is shown armed!)?
Clearly you have a case of "The British are coming! The British are coming!".
Don't fret! It's all gravy son!

What does it matter how many are tagged OCT? Are you embarrassed by them? Also the majority of them are obviously OCT, regardless of it being tagged or not. Pretty easy to tell when they are wearing OCT shirts and waiving OCT flags.

You were clearly caught either stating wrong information or being uninformed on the subject. Your claim that they are not showing up at several places is clearly been proven false, now you are backtracking and changing the subject

 

[nyresq]

I am also waiting for the first time a small group of OCers gets held up by a couple of thugs and have their guns stolen...

I would bet its already happened, but no one is going to post that up anywhere... 230lb "Mom" and the 18 year old daughter with the ARs across their backs probably aren't very schooled in weapon retention, so that would be easy pickens for a couple young punks even if they were unarmed...

But I digress...

 

[barnbwt]

I have yet to see this occurring at any level to scare the public.

Even if it's only been the two notable photos (as you see, there's others slightly less stupid/threatening looking but still inflammatory), it is plainly provoking a fearful response from the public. You can't just say "oh, it's those astro-turfing Bloomers" and pretend this activity is not shocking or offending anyone besides, as a way to justify their actions --that form of denial is associated with irrational zealotry, and is a death spiral of radical activity and reprisal. Be warned.

btw.. the guy in the blue t-shirt is holding his AR with his hands (facing upwards/sideways) and it's not slung over his shoulder.... if a cop would see him doing that (in TX) he would be in trouble...

Hell, the Chipotle guys photographed themselves brandishing and have not been prosecuted! Perhaps that's what we gunnies really need to be doing, is shepherding this escalating OC behavior back towards what is acceptable, and legal. The whole point of this exercise, whatever its motivations, was not to be against the law or civil disobedience. Civil disobedience with firearms is historically a monumentally stupid and counterproductive tactic. We have got to be anal-retentive stickler squares about this, like how the Civil Rights people were about remaining non-violent. Abiding the law is the one shred of credibility we have with the other side, on which we are unassailable, and when we tolerate people breaking it, we have got to police it harder than anyone else will.

The next OCT(or other location) photo that pops up with hands on the gun, we need to be peppering DA's and police chiefs to do their jobs, even if no one got hurt. Seeing how productive the refusal to enforce laws is for other political areas, we need to be very cognizant of how OC-hostile cities may intentionally letting these lapses go unaddressed in order to encourage this publicly-unacceptable behavior --you don't interrupt your enemy when he is self-immolating.


The attackers, seen hiding behind cover of a bullet-ridden vehicle, had been in a stand-off with authorities for over two hours outside a local Black-Eyed-Pea restaurant, after disagreement over a fee for extra onion rings escalated to the point of physical violence

Activists: The one thing you have to do, the one thing, is avoid becoming a damn satire of yourselves. Chrissakes

TCB

 

[TennJed]

The level of immaturity and lack of awareness these people OCT people have is truly alarming.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Bull**** response.

Some here have been fighting for 2A causes their entire lives.

This is a forum full of potential allies that you are alienating, well done.

Well, this is a sure way to get people on your side, isn't it?

This thread is going downhill fast, and some of you are letting your emotions get the better of you. We are all relatively of the same opinions on firearms, and there's no need to be hostile with each other. It's just a discussion people. Try to relax a bit.

 

[TennJed]

Why not? If you can get enough signatures, why not?
Moms DEMAND Action did it? Why not you?

Because along with signatures, Mom's demand action has Open Carry Texas helping them. Working for them. It is people fighting for 2A rights vs MDA and OCT.

It took more than signatures to get Target to issue a statement. The fact that this is not clear to you and to OCT is amazing.

It's just a discussion people. Try to relax a bit.

It is more than a discussion. This is an open to the public forum. Anyone can read what is written here. We need to make it clear we do not support OCT and we are disgusted my their antics. This is an opportunity to make it clear they are not representing the majority of gun owners.

Also OCT believes "in your face and abrasive" is the only way to get a point across, so I doubt they will understand any subtle or rationale discussion.

 

[barnbwt]

Wow, that guy must really hate that muzzle crown

The one photo I've seen posted that is remotely flattering is the woman petting the little dog, and even she is wearing dark-mirror aviators that severely hurt the "humanity" of a person in visual media. The others are various shades of blurry, to Bubba, to threatening.

To the guys in the actual Target photo; it sure looks like you all were swaggering through the store. What the heck made you think that was a good idea for the cameras? Because mugging with a gun is about the stupidest thing you can possibly do to make yourselves empathetic. Might as well dress up like those militarized cops we all resent, complete with balaclava, for your demonstrations.

TCB

 

[Freakshow]

Because along with signatures, Mom's demand action has Open Carry Texas helping them. Working for them. It is people fighting for 2A rights vs MDA and OCT.



It took more than signatures to get Target to issue a statement. The fact that this is not clear to you and to OCT is amazing.

That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road....

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

It is more than a discussion. This is an open to the public forum. Anyone can read what is written here. We need to make it clear we do not support OCT and we are disgusted my their antics. This is an opportunity to make it clear they are not representing the majority of gun owners

Perhaps so, but that can be done without treating your fellow forum members with animosity.

 

[barnbwt]

"Well, this is a sure way to get people on your side, isn't it?"
Well, in Supernaut's defense, some random guy did just show up on one of the most well-established gun-rights forums there is, make a series of loud denouncements of the general disagreement with his views here, then claim people here haven't been pulling their weight the last ten years or whatever this forum's been around...

"That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road..."
It's not slanderous, it's observational. He didn't say OCT was taking money from MDA, he said OCT's actions are working toward MDA's purposes, which they quite obviously have, and continue to be. If the OCT guys weren't so headstrong and insistent on doing it exactly their way, these highly motivated, courageous, and (apparently) free-time-sacrificing folks could be a valuable asset; instead their energy is being worse than squandered, as is ours in countering their impact.

TCB

 

[zxcvbob]

That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road....

Perhaps. But it is a reasonable conclusion based on what we are seeing. (libelous, not slanderous)

 

[TennJed]

Perhaps so, but that can be done without treating your fellow forum members with animosity.

I am not so sure it can in this case. Look at the way OCT behaves in public. I honestly do not believe they are mentally capable of understanding civil reasoning. The only thing their mind can grasp is in your face bravado and look at me I need attention acts. That is not a flame, that is just being honest

 

[Freakshow]

I don't think that I have ever seen the kind of animosity posted here against fellow gun owners on ANY of the other gun forums!
You guys are seriously rude in describing your "brothers in arms" and I find it astounding!
Calling OC people gun nuts, less than intelligent, jerks and other things add nausea!
Do you seriously think that OCT or any other group that OC's is the reason that they've been targeted?!
Don't you worry then because every gun.. Every single gun... They will be targeted, soon enough.
MDA, Mr. Bloomberg and every gun group on this continent will be targeted.
But before that happens, you're just going to throw OCT under the bus..... Bravo!
When big brother comes for your guns, and he will come for them, you just remember that "you" sold out your brothers first...

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I am not so sure it can in this case. Look at the way OCT behaves in public. I honestly do not believe they are mentally capable of understanding civil reasoning. The only they can grasp is in your face bravado and look at me I need attention acts. That is not a flame, that is just being honest

We aren't OCT, we're THR. There's no need to behave as they do to get our points across.

 

[Freakshow]

Perhaps so, but that can be done without treating your fellow forum members with animosity.

Thank you for your incite and the point I've been trying to make for the last few hours.

 

[TennJed]

That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road....

I am not saying they are on their payroll, but they are doing more to advance MDA than anyone else. They are helping MDA and hurting open carry. You work for the people that benefit from your actions. MDA is clearly benefiting from OCT

 

[barnbwt]

You guys are seriously rude in describing your "brothers in arms" and I find it astounding!

OCT is seriously rude in how they get their message out; how is that not similarly destructive to our mutual goals?

I hate to say it, but some folks truly are unhinged and need to be brought back in line, for all our sakes. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the next photographed instance of brandishing that gets posted by these guys, and I'm reporting it & encouraging others to do the same. Similar to the "irresponsible gun owner of the day" shaming TTAG does frequently.

TCB

 

[Sam1911]

That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road....

Some suspect that at least some portion of the organization -- or other groups doing the same thing -- are actually bankrolled by Bloomberg's organizations as a false flag effort to blow the gun rights movement backward in the public view and even in legislation if possible, by being extremely alarming and over-the-top in the eyes of Joe and Jane Q. Public. Instead of continuing our slow march of progress (that's been going on for more than 20 years now) he's paying folks to ensure that "we" over-reach, push too hard way too soon, and foment a backlash that causes the pendulum to start to swing against us. It wouldn't need be a conspiracy of many. Just one or a handful at the top would be enough to be effective. To draw those who see themselves as gun-rights fanatics/heroes to the organization and a charismatic leader (with just a little Bloomberg money to work with) could push his people to do things willingly that will scare enough people to cause society to sit up and demand "we" be put in our place.

Now, as others have said, I'm not quite ready to buy that tinfoil hat.

But in the end, whether Bloomberg financed it, or just reaped the benefits of it, really doesn't matter if the effect is the same.

Hopefully these groups will fade into the background soon and be forgotten -- or even better, disperse and go attach themselves to more useful pro-gun efforts.

I'm sure the rank-and-file of these groups are really good guys and gals who just drank a little bit of the wrong kool-aid, so to speak. It is an awful lot to ask of the average foot-soldier in a political action organization to think critically about the disconnect between the group's claimed goals and the means they're employing to try and reach those goals. Sort of like imagining a member of the Black Panthers stopping at the foot of the California State House back in 1967 and saying, "Hey, guys, wait a minute...what if we totally screw up the right to bear arms in California for the next fifty years?"

 

[TennJed]

That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?
I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road....

I am not saying they are on their payroll, but they are doing more to advance MDA than anyone else. They are helping MDA and hurting open carry. You work for the people that benefit from your actions. MDA is clearly benefiting from OCT

 

[Freakshow]

"Well, this is a sure way to get people on your side, isn't it?"

Well, in Supernaut's defense, some random guy did just show up on one of the most well-established gun-rights forums there is, make a series of loud denouncements of the general disagreement with his views here, then claim people here haven't been pulling their weight the last ten years or whatever this forum's been around...



"That is a pretty stiff statement to make. Are you seriously posting that OCT works for MDA?

I hope not because that is a slanderous jab at OCT and it's not very high road..."

It's not slanderous, it's observational. He didn't say OCT was taking money from MDA, he said OCT's actions are working toward MDA's purposes, which they quite obviously have, and continue to be. If the OCT guys weren't so headstrong and insistent on doing it exactly their way, these highly motivated, courageous, and (apparently) free-time-sacrificing folks could be a valuable asset; instead their energy is being worse than squandered, as is ours in countering their impact.



TCB

You sir are what I like to refer to as "anti-gun light".
You're doing MDA's job just as surely as if you claim the OC crowd is doing...
Chopping down carriers who think differently than you do just like Mr. Bloomberg !
MDA would be proud of you!

 

[Freakshow]

Perhaps. But it is a reasonable conclusion based on what we are seeing. (libelous, not slanderous)

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if it was liable or slander.

 

[TennJed]

I don't think that I have ever seen the kind of animosity posted here against fellow gun owners on ANY of the other gun forums!
You guys are seriously rude in describing your "brothers in arms" and I find it astounding!
Calling OC people gun nuts, less than intelligent, jerks and other things add nausea!
Do you seriously think that OCT or any other group that OC's is the reason that they've been targeted?!
Don't you worry then because every gun.. Every single gun... They will be targeted, soon enough.
MDA, Mr. Bloomberg and every gun group on this continent will be targeted.
But before that happens, you're just going to throw OCT under the bus..... Bravo!
When big brother comes for your guns, and he will come for them, you just remember that "you" sold out your brothers first...

Please quit lumping OC in with OCT. The people here are against Open Carry Texas antics, not opening carrying. You are purposefully trying to imply that board members here have a problem with open carry, almost all do not. the problem is with the long arm open carry demonstrators.

They are not the same thing. The people carrying rifles in stores are NOT doing it for protection, they are doing it for attention. Not the same thing and it is insulting to people who open carry for self defense

 

[TennJed]

We aren't OCT, we're THR. There's no need to behave as they do to get our points across.

Some people in this thread support and defend OCT. They are for all intents and purposes members of OCT