Guns of Billy the Kid

[osteodoc08]

Sitting in bed tonight, my fiancé asks if I had ever heard of Billy the Kid. "well sure honey" was my response. Apparently she was cruising Facebook while I was on THR. (I hate FB BTW). The article was stating that the "old west" gun slingers would only load 5 in their six shooter. I explained this to her and the load one skip one load four. But in reality, if they were going into a fight, I'd sure as heck would load all six. Anyhow, she asked me what guns he carried and, rightfully, I didn't know the answer. So I come to you gents tonight after I came up empty handed on a reliable source to find out what he carried.

 

[EdJennings]

For some reason, a Colt Lightning comes to mind. Not real sure of that, however.

 

[javjacob]

that's a good question. also got me curious to what guns jesse james had

 

[JohnBiltz]

I don't know why but I want to say JJ had S&W top breaks

 

[OARNGESI]

smith and wesson model 3

 

[SleazyRider]

I'm thinkin' he must have used a wide variety of weapons to dispatch the alleged 21 men over the course of his career, but I believe the Colt Thunderer in .41 caliber was said to be his signature piece. When he commandeered the Lincoln County jail in New Mexico, he had 8 rifles and 11 handguns at his disposal, one of which was used to kill John Bell:

 

[Hunterdad]

I was told years ago that I am actually related to John Bell

 

[lemaymiami]

Pretty sure the one iconic photo of Bonney shows the weapons that he had when the photo was taken pretty clearly.... He did pretty good for a boy from New Jersey.

 

[EdJennings]

That seems more likely than a Lightning. The .38 Colt round was pretty marginal. Both are the model 1877.

 

[berettaprofessor]

WikiAnswers is your friend:

"We know with out a doubt he owned and used a Colt Model 1873 Army SA in 45 long (single action) and a Winchester Rifle Model 1873 44-40. Both of these weapons are in Billy's possession in the only known photo of him.
Billy has his Colt on his left side and is holding his Winchester (which was his weapon of choice). Due to the Colt being holstered on his left hip many people believed he was left handed. This how ever is an error. Any "gun guy" worth a lick of salt would have noticed the Winchester was backwards on close inspection. Back then when the photo was developed they had to reverse them because they were backwards. That was never done.

As for other guns many historians believe he had a Colt Thunderer, or Lightening and more then likely he owned my favorite revolver a S&W Schofield in 45 S&W, known know as 45 short. Even though the Colt and the Schofield are both chambered in a 45 caliber projectile the caseing is longer on the Colt which gives it a little more power but the Schofield can reload much, much, quicker. Especially while on hoarse back."

Now I don't know what a "hoarse back" might be, but I'll take the writer's word for the rest of it.

 

[osteodoc08]

I read the wiki article but I don't consider it to be absolute authority. I rely on y'all for that!

 

[spm]

For some reason, a Colt Lightning comes to mind. Not real sure of that, however.

That's what I remember.

 

[hammerklavier]

He traded for the Colt Lightning, that's what I read while touring in Lincoln County NM. Also read that Bell was killed with a shotgun.

 

[Onmilo]

The only possibly certain Billy weapons are the ones pictured in the only authenticated photograph of him which are a single action army colt, caliber unknown, and a Winchester 1873 carbine caliber unknown though probably .44/40

A Whitney lever action .44/40 is held by the New Mexico historical society and it is claimed this rifle and a handgun type and caliber unknown were surrendered to deputies by Bonney after his arrest at the cabin.

During the jailbreak some historical sources noted he used a colt thuer .41 rimfire derringer that had been hidden in the outhouse to brain shoot one guard, J Bell, killing him instantly, other sources say he shot Bell who then staggered down the stairs and died outside the jailhouse, or Bonney brained Bell with a set of shackles then shot Bell with his own gun. Unlikely since Bell was likely carrying a .45 Colt revolver and he was head shot giving very little possibility of staggering down to the street where he did die.
Bonney then he used Bob Ollingers own shotgun to shoot him down in the street from the second story window of the jailhouse.
He broke the shotgun down and threw the pieces onto the street after the killing

Pat Garrett was presented a .38 Colt Lightening revolver after shooting William Bonney and some speculate this gun is where all the heresay of Billy the Kid using a double action Lightning revolver comes from.
Some claims were made that the presentation Lightning was Bonney's own gun though this has never been proven.

 

[Kayaker 1960]

Billy the Kid

I read a book about Billy several years ago, I don't recall the author but it was written not as fiction but as historically accurate. I don't recall what revolver he used but I remember that he wasn't very good with it. He killed several people with a 10 gauge shotgun. As the story was written, there were no real feet's of marksmanship or speed, more like ambush most of the time. He really wanted to be known as a gunslinger.

 

[Onmilo]

With the exceptions of JM Bell and Bob Ollinger noted, as there were several reliable witnesses to the shootings, there is no real positive "Proof" Billy the Kid ever actually killed anyone else,,,

Bob Ollinger was killed with a 10 guage shotgun, his own, by William Bonney.
It is the only documented event where William Bonney used a shotgun to kill anyone as well...

Bonney was present at a number of shootings, however, so were a lot of other "Gunmen" and he wasn't as well loved as history makes him out to be.
Many considered Bonnney to be a loud mouthed little assbag and it wouldn't take much persuation to have others point the finger at him for their own misdeeds.

His reaching out to the Govenor of New Mexico to secure a Pardon included revealing the truth of some unsolved shooting incidents that had occurred.

When the Govenor refused the request William Bonney's fate was sealed by guilty men....

 

[gym]

Scofield comes to mind.

 

[osteodoc08]

Interesting tid bits guys. Such a wealth of knowledge here.

 

[Slamfire]

I read Pat Garret’s book about Billy the Kid. Today people are fixated on what guns the Kid carried, but back then, what he used was common to the era.

The Kid was a gambler, then an outlaw, and any firearm would have been a better choice than no gun. Early in the book he and a bud were broke, but were befriended by passing Indians who were going to trade animal skins. Mounted on Indian loaner horses they could not convince the Indians to let them have the horses based on promises of future compensation so he and his bud simply shot the Indians off their horses and took everything. This is the mentality of the guy. When he became an outlaw, going shopping at the local gunstore would have attracted unwanted attention. There were several times when he was captured and he lost the firearms he had at the time. I suspect he supplied his needs by robbing whomever he came across and if he could trade up, he would, but it all depended on what the victim carried.

When Billy died he was carrying a knife.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I'm always a little skeptical of guns in old photos. Back then, you'd have your photo taken in a studio, carefully posed against a background, and many studios had various prop guns that their clients posed with. You'll see this in lots of old civil war photos, soldiers with pistols and knives and swords sort of stuck haphazardly into their belts or where ever they would fit.

The historical record on most of these famous figures is very spotty. Most of what we have are published accounts, which were often inaccurate to the point of fiction, and even the few personal accounts (from diaries and the like) will often just repeat local rumor. First hand, credible, written accounts of what these men were like are rare. Later interviews with individuals, like the contemporary news reports, were sensationalized and are often contradictory as well.

You can make a good case that Billy was really not such a bad guy, and you could make a good case that he was what we would today call a criminal psychopath.

There must have been an awful lot of psychologically damaged people walking around in that era, in the aftermath of a gigantic war that chewed up soldier and civilian alike. I can imagine that there were no shortage of genuinely dangerous men wandering the lonely places then.

 

[3feathers]

Caught an episode of diggers that new metal detecting show and they were in new Mexico poking around the place where the army had Billy and the regulators cornered and the historian on the show said he was known too carry a .44 bulldog as a back up piece!

 

[itsa pain]

I was told years ago that I am actually related to John Bell

that name does ring a bell lol

 

[MICHAEL T]

surprised he hasn't been credited packing and testing a KelTec 380

 

[hammerklavier]

Right, I got Bell & Ollingers mixed up. He reportedly yelled out Bob's name while leaning out the the armory window with the shotgun, then fired when Bob looked up at him.

 

[hammerklavier]

When Billy died he was carrying a knife.

Perhaps. The sheriff of Lincoln County was tracking him down to one of the NE NM counties, heard his distinctive high pitched voice coming from inside a saloon, and with gun at the ready, entered and shot him down.

Billy had a gun on him, with one fired round, but the record does not state whether he got a shot off that night.