Schools, Kids, Guns

[CountryUgly]

Guess what our schools are teaching our kids about guns???? A friend of my wife brought her daughter (she's 11) with her on a visit to our house recently. I was in the "gun room" loading rounds and my daughter brought her friend in with her to ask me a question. The 11 yr old girl asked me "Why do you like guns if they kill people?" I ass-u-med that line of thinking most likely came from her mother so I go and ask. Nope. Momma has nothing against guns and has tried to encourage her daughter to shoot with her grandpa. Turns out since "Sandy Hook" the kid's school has been hammering kids with the whole Anti spill of lies. With her mother's permission the little girl got a crash course (and my daughter got a refresher) in gun/reloading safety and we went down the list of myths the school had told her and debunked them. She now understands the it's physically impossible for any inanimate object to kill anything, that there are proper and improper ways to handle firearms and their ammo and that it's perfectly legal for a CC permit holding LAC to carry in/on/around school grounds. I've managed to fix one kid (who's now looking forward to a range trip to put her new found safety skills to the test and cannot wait till school starts back in the fall to spread the gospel to the other kids). But how many kids will now be future Antis for no other reason than the fear instilled in them by their teachers when they were children? The most shocking part of the situation is that this is the same school I attended and even as recently as the late 90's it wasn't uncommon to see a lever action rifle or shotgun in the back window of my truck and many other students vehicles in the school parking lot waiting on class to get out and go hunting. The place has really changed in just the short 15 years since I was there.

 

[Hondo 60]

Well, just think about it for a minute.
Who's teaching our kids?
Who taught those teachers?

All Democrats!

And the professors? they're the ones who (or were taught by the ones) who protested during Vietnam.

As a card-carrying member of the Disabled American Veterans, I have zero use for the protesters & their progeny.

To me, those who protested, burned their draft cards or ran to Canada are ...
(well, this is the high road, so I won't finish that thought.)

 

[biohazurd]

I'm glad you set her straight. It gives me chills to think what the next generation is going to be like as adults if you don't start them on the right path now, at a young age.

 

[OneWound]

How big is the school she attended? When Sqndy Hook occurred, that never happened to me.

 

[wrs840]

Government School is toxic. Homeshcool. It's the only way to keep kids these days safe, much less sane.

Trust me.

 

[TennJed]

Sorta on the same topic, we joined the local YMCA this weekend to use their gym and pool. Taking the kids swimming I noticed a lot of them we playing with water guns. Years ago I would not even paid any attention to it, but with all the school stories in the news about kids getting suspended for making guns with their fingers and cookies, I was pleasantly surprised they allowed it.

 

[Hillbillyz]

Thank you Hondo.

 

[Reloadron]

Turns out since "Sandy Hook" the kid's school has been hammering kids with the whole Anti spill of lies.

Sandy Hook? Better look back way beyond Sandy Hook. Try the past few decades. America's public school system is a mecca for the liberals. Gone are the days when children were taught Reading, Writing, Arithmetic. Today the public school system serves as a platform to promote the liberal agenda. Teachers like to promote their beliefs on the children well beyond what they should be teaching.

Take a good long hard look at who is "teaching" America's children as Hondo points out.

Ron

 

[allaroundhunter]

My mother teaches school, she is actually a speech pathologist and frequently works with disabled children. Outside of school she works with private clients (i.e. not having to follow public school policies). One time I was working with her and mentioned something about firearms and the clients parents suddenly got fairly concerned faces and asked what I was doing shooting guns so young (I was 19 at the time). Well, after a little talking I asked them to join me at a private range and bring their son who has down syndrome. They happily agreed and I brought out the .22s and we had a blast! The family had heard the typical anti-gun media and as they said "had formed very false impressions"

The look on their son's face was enough for them to schedule another range trip with me two weeks later. They still shoot and went out and bought a Ruger Mk III after our second outing.

After spending so much time with children with various disabilities I have never found one that didn't like shooting the .22s, out of those who were physically able... We even made a contraption that used a hydraulic system to fire a .22 for a student who could only move his head. It was wired to a head switch (the same one that he used to operate his "talker" ). As soon as the assistant was aiming the gun well, they would take the gun off safety and the student would tap the switch with his head when he was ready for it to shoot.

Yeah, I enjoy teaching these kids to shoot... I love it actually

 

[Twiki357]

It's good that a child was rescued from the anti-gun mentality ramped in the liberal controlled schools. Unfortunately, there are millions of kids who don't have opportunity to hear anything other than the propaganda spread by their [teachers] indoctrinators.

 

[herrwalther]

Things are a bit different down here. I was working TDY as a recruiter and went to a few local high schools. Not my strong suit but I did get asked some interesting questions. One prospect I enjoyed talking to asked how similar the military bolt actions were to Remington 700s. Took me by surprise as this one did his research to know the M24 was loosely based on the 700 that his father owned and taught him on.

Others were not so enlightened asking how it felt to fire an M16 on full auto like the movies or comparing an M4 to their bird shotgun. But still good teaching points.

 

[Reloadron]

Things are a bit different down here. I was working TDY as a recruiter and went to a few local high schools. Not my strong suit but I did get asked some interesting questions. One prospect I enjoyed talking to asked how similar the military bolt actions were to Remington 700s. Took me by surprise as this one did his research to know the M24 was loosely based on the 700 that his father owned and taught him on.

Others were not so enlightened asking how it felt to fire an M16 on full auto like the movies or comparing an M4 to their bird shotgun. But still good teaching points.

Nice story. Along those same lines I left Vietnam in '72 and was assigned to Recruiter School at MCRD San Diego, CA. Ended up in Cleveland, Ohio as a US Marine Corps recruiter and schools were a source of recruits. Here is what is interesting going back to '72 through '75. The US Military was not winning a popularity contest during and immediately following Vietnam.

Cleveland is an interesting city in that even then within the inner city circles Cleveland was typical rust belt, heavy steel and union driven. These folks had a strong sense of patriotism and even then a healthy respect for the military uniform. The inner belt schools welcomed us with military career days. However, as we moved out East, West or South (there is no North or you get wet) that patriotism died out. This was especially true of the higher income more affluent areas. The military recruiter wasn't quite welcome. The schools didn't really host a military career day. Their stance on guns was about the same as one would expect. The suburb teachers were more liberal while many of the inner ring teachers were former military. Go figure huh.

Ron

 

[Trent]

Ron, may have been that way back in the 70's but now even rural schools are bad about it.

We live in the country. Graduating class as the local high school is 25-30 kids. Small farm town, the type that runs the tornado sirens at noon and 6 so the farmers know to come in from the fields, and eat. (They've done it every day since the things were installed 60+ years ago; even in the winter...)

Anyway, you'd expect EVERY kid out here in farm-land to grow up with a rifle for pest control, a shotgun for feeding the family.

Nope. NONE of the kids in my son's High School had any exposure or experience with firearms.

I've been making "converts."

Even got my NRA instructor certification so I could make sure I was teaching them properly and correctly.

We WILL lose this fight in a generation or two if we do not pass our skills and knowledge down to the new generations. I guarantee you this.

Since they've won in the schools, and the media, it's just a matter of time before we (as a nation), lose it ALL.

 

[Reloadron]

Trent, your post worries me. We need to get today's youth that are in school off the golf courses and onto the rifle ranges. My HS in 68 when I graduated in NY had a class of 400 and we had a school rifle team. All of that is gone. However, they do have golf teams.

Discounting the politics for a moment the shooting sports build character and self discipline. Two attributes necessary to survive in today world. Those along with a knowledge of Reading, Writing and Arithmetic which many of today's schools seem to have problems teaching. Shooting is in itself a great sport and we need to work to get more of the youth into it and involved.

I am not knocking golf as it also requires skill and self discipline. I am saying there should be room for the shooting sports in today's schools as there was years ago.

Ron

 

[RTR_RTR]

I'm only 24, and there's been plenty of gun/hunting interest in my south louisiana high school classmates, south alabama college classmates, and south louisiana grad school classmates :shrug:

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Well, in all honesty, this is exactly what you get with children when a sizable chunk of society wants to treat schools as some kind of baby-sitting or daycare facility and not take an active parental role in the education and upbringing of their own children.

I help moderate another site, a social Q&A site, and I often see questions about why "the schools don't do this or that" about any number of subjects, ranging from poor performance/grades, pregnancies, bullying, and more. My answer to many of these types of questions are "Where are the parents and what are they doing about this?"

If my child is getting bad grades, then it's my responsibility as the parent to see to it that the reason(s) for poor performance are addressed and that my child gets whatever assistance required to overcome this. Sitting on my laurels and ignoring the situation, expecting the school to do everything, is not the right answer.

Taking an active role in the education and upbringing of our children is not a responsibility to be handed off to someone else lightly. What you get in return is a child who is necessarily indoctrinated in the mores and ideology of the people you just relinquished all that power to. If you want your child to have mores and ideologies similar to your own, then you take an active role in ensuring that happens.

After Sandy Hook, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised at my children (11, 14, and 14 years old). Even the youngest expressed the inherent stupidity in many of the knee-jerk reactions taken when they saw much of the rules and actions put into place as a result.

- Why put a police officer on duty at the school when such shootings are so extremely rare?

- How can the school afford a police officer or other armed security when they have problems getting enough paper and toner for the copiers?

- If a bad guy REALLY wanted to come to the school, how could you really stop him from shooting the officer first, when he wasn't expecting it?

- What would stop a bad guy from simply driving a car loaded with explosives into the school?

- Why is all that expensive, high-tech ID and tracking stuff required, when the old way of doing things when you entered through the school office worked fine? (And my youngest so droitly pointed out how that new ID scanner either doesn't work half the time, or it doesn't scan my name and drivers license number correctly when it does.)

- What would stop a bad guy from tossing a bomb or can of gas through a window into a classroom?

Daddy's Little Troublemaker (my 13 year old daughter) pointed out what is obvious to so many of us...If somebody WANTED to commit such a crime, OF COURSE they'd go to a school because nobody else there is allowed to have weapons! When was the last time you heard of somebody attacking people at a police station or gun shop?

And my children aren't what some would consider to be raised in a gun-toting environment. BB guns were about it until recently, when my wife and I took them to a gun ranges last week to shoot rifles, pistols, and a shotgun. Guns were just ever treated as mysterious objects which autonomously kill other people. We always answered questions about them honestly and explained the dangers inherent in handling them. They knew Daddy and Grandpapa had guns and it was no big deal.

There IS hope out there for our children...if WE care enough to take our roles as responsible parents seriously. People who don't...well, they get whatever other people drill into their children's heads as a result.

When a brother of mine, who taught shop class in a junior high school after he retired from the Air Force, had to call the parents about Little Johnny who was having problems at school, the mother said "Well, I just don't understand why my child is having so many problems!"

My brother responded by asking "Does Johnny have any responsibilities around the house?" "What do you mean?", she asked. "Does he mow the lawn? Does he do the dishes? Is he expected to make his bed and keep his room clean? Does he do his own laundry?" All the answers to these was essentially "No, we do all those things."

My brother's response was "Congratulations. You got exactly what you trained your son to be. Not many parents can honestly say that." A moment of silence and, shockingly, the mother agreed. With a little cooperative work between both of the parents and him as a teacher, Little Johnny turned himself around.

People need to quit giving up their parental authority to others.

 

[Hatter]

It's just a giant <deleted> of ignorance being feed to the children of the United States, and It's sad to say but wrs is spot on, seems to be the only option where you can still parent your kids.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

It's just a giant <deleted> of ignorance being feed to the children of the United States, and It's sad to say but wrs is spot on, seems to be the only option where you can still parent your kids.

Reposting what wrs said here for continuity:

Government School is toxic. Homeshcool. It's the only way to keep kids these days safe, much less sane.

Trust me.

With due respect, I disagree. Homeschooling is NOT the "only way to keep kids" safe/sane. Safety is relative, in any event. One may even go so far as saying that one's definition of sanity depends entirely upon which side of the line one is standing on.

To be sure, there are many aspects about homeschooling I do agree with, and many I do not. Our own three children were partially home schooled, for example.

However, public or private schooling options aren't environments where one has no parental authority or influence. Indeed, exerting your parental influence as part of the process is very important and extremely beneficial to your children.

And if one has the attitude that education ends when the public/private school bell rings in the afternoon, then I submit that this is a fallacy every bit as damaging as those who expect the schools to take care of everything with their children.

 

[Solo]

Schooling at a good public or private school combined with extra lessons at home would be my suggestion.

 

[CountryUgly]

How big is the school she attended? When Sqndy Hook occurred, that never happened to me.

Small, probably less than 1K total students in K-12 now and in a rural area in the South at that.... It's those reasons why it was so shocking to me..

 

[wrs840]

...and many I do not...

The unsupportable but often parroted myth that peer-based immersion in same-age "Socialization" is somehow healthy, necessary, or in the slightest bit historically common, I presume ?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The unsupportable but often parroted myth that peer-based immersion in same-age "Socialization" is somehow healthy, necessary, or in the slightest bit historically common, I presume ?

Actually, no. Socialization IS important for children...however, public or private schooling is not the only way to obtain that. I fully understand that.

However, there are other very practical reasons that home schooling may not be a viable option for some parents and/or children.

One is that it takes TIME and SERIOUS EFFORT on the part of the parent(s) conducting the home schooling. It doesn't just happen by osmosis, you know. A number of factors contribute to this time and effort which may or may not work out. The understanding and ability of the parent(s) to convey the required level of knowledge on a variety of subjects is crucial to this. The ability of the parents to control and conduct the formal training required is important. And the attitude and personalities of the children (and parents) is important as well.

For example, Daddy's Little Troublemaker (our 13 year old daughter) is NOT a viable candidate for home schooling for a variety of reasons, most of which stem from her personality & attitude and my wife's personality & patience. They're two stubborn, bullheaded individuals who tend to clash a lot, bless their hearts.

Daddy's Little Troublemaker SAYS she'd rather be home schooled...but I know from experience that what she REALLY means is "I don't want to be in school where I HAVE to learn all this stuff instead of goofing off and doing all the other things I'd rather be doing."

As for my wife, bless her heart, she started out home schooling our children...but does not have the patience or ability to plan her way out of a wet paper bag. Combine her lack of patience and planning skills with the fact that she has an authority problem (which is clearly communicated in the responsive behavior of one of our children) and what we have is a somewhat less than optimal home schooling environment.

Just as some children would do better home schooled, there are some who will NOT.

Either way, parental involvement is required for optimal results. One should choose whatever works best for one's situation, not just blindly follow one path or the other hoping for good results.

 

[wrs840]

Fair enough.

 

[radiotom]

When she starts telling the other kids about guns in a positive light, she'll probably end up suspended.

 

[jmr40]

Well, just think about it for a minute.
Who's teaching our kids?
Who taught those teachers?

All Democrats!

I taught school for 30 years before retiring, I'm a Republican. I've never met another teacher who admitted voting for Gore or Obama.

this is the same school I attended and even as recently as the late 90's it wasn't uncommon to see a lever action rifle or shotgun in the back window of my truck

That was pretty much true everywhere, but that was before kids started taking them inside and shooting other kids with them. It isn't the same world we grew up in and schools aren't to blame. It would be gross negligence for schools not to take a hardline on weapons on campus today. Don't blame the schools.

The 11 yr old girl asked me "Why do you like guns if they kill people?"

After spending a lot of time with kids that age, and even older they often only come away with 1 thing from a lesson. It is highly likely a very fair and balanced program was presented, and the girl woke up just long enough to get 1 single snippet from the entire program. Happens all the time.

Government School is toxic. Homeshcool. It's the only way to keep kids these days safe, much less sane.

Home schooling can be a positive thing but I've never seen it work. Every single example I'm aware of works like this. Parents and kids are socially backwards and cannot function in society. Kids come to school and cannot behave and follow rules, because their parents can't either. Kids get in trouble at school and parents pull them out somewhere around 4th-6th grade. Parents get tired of dealing with the brats and send them back to us and enroll them in 9th or 10th grade with a 3rd grade education. They drop out when they turn 16 and go on welfare rolls for the rest of their lives.