Guns of Haiti

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dom1104

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In looking thru the pictures of the violence down in Haiti, watching the news and such I came across something interesting.

The majority of the guns seen being use by the police, and by looters are 3 types. <most likely they are what the police are issued, and the looters stole them.


1. mossberg 590 w/ heat shield
2. M14 <lots of m14s>
3. Beretta 92s, nickle plated

I just find this combination... kinda odd.

Especially the nickle plated berettas. Isnt a M14 a little .. huge for a police weapon?

So does the US supply Haiti with surplus firearms? M14, Mossberg, Berettas are all military arms, maybe the plating is refinished ?

Attached are picture examples.

haiti22_1560985i.jpg


haiti8_1561016i.jpg


haiti18_1560995i.jpg



OK so the meat of the question I have is, if M14s are plentiful down in S. America, and say someone was planning a S. American vacation, what is the feasability of picking up a cheap m14 and having it imported back into the US?

I totally have never thought this out before and have NO idea whats involved with all of this.

But it made me wonder. South American Surplus M14s.
 
Weapons are common international currency to support regimes your government approves, hence the M14s and Mossbergs.
Could the nickel plated Beretta perhaps be a stainless Taurus? I can't see the trigger guard shape to tell a difference. That would be a cheaper gun from a closer source.

It would not, of course, be legal to import an M14.
 
I can't imagine the equipment budget in Hati is that large, and the Taurus/Beretta the one guy is wielding is probably a purchase of his own.
 
In general, importing a firearm is vastly more trouble than it's worth. Especially as we have freer access and availalbility to just about anything you might want than do most other countries. And, as Jim said, you won't be legally importing an M14. The rest you can get here.


(Note to self: If ever involved in a fire fight, make sure to wear a neon green, high-vizibility vest.)

-Sam
 
Ok thats kinda what I thought.

Thats not the only nickel beretta <or taurus, didnt think about that> picture I have seen tho. I have seen at least one other.

I ASSUME it could be the same guy, but I doubt it. I will try to find the other pic.

Interesting. I found this article on Tactical-Life <what a name...>

"Once remanufactured in steel in 1955, the Model 951 was adopted by Egypt, Haiti, Iraq, Israel, Nigeria and by the Palestinians."

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/berettas-military-classic-m92-9mm/

So apparently the haitian military adopted the beretta m92 way back.

Interesting.
 
MichaelLaughlin_01.jpg


Also found this little gem of a photo-op.

Is that a M4 with NO SIGHTS at all in front? :)

"Joe, you take point!"

"But I have no sights!"
 
"Once remanufactured in steel in 1955, the Model 951 was adopted by Egypt, Haiti, Iraq, Israel, Nigeria and by the Palestinians."

So apparently the haitian military adopted the beretta m92 way back.
Click to expand...

That piece does not say so. A Model 951 (1951) is not a 92. It is a single stack single action pistol that got Beretta into the Walther locking system before double action.
 
K so the meat of the question I have is, if M14s are plentiful down in S. America, and say someone was planning a S. American vacation, what is the feasability of picking up a cheap m14 and having it imported back into the US?
Click to expand...

Bil Clinton gave all the M14's away (those that he didn't have destroyed) to countries like this so they are a fairly common sight.

The chance of bringing one back is zero. The ATF considers any gun that was EVER a machine gun to ALWAYS be a machine gun. And, no M14 was ever built that was not full auto capable, at least from the point of view of how the receiver was made.

Most were made semi auto along the way of course, but the receiver itself was a "machine gun" receiver so...... not a chance.
 
Carried one in the trunk of my car. 308 goes through windshields better than 223. And yes it was a real M14 owned by the state.
Click to expand...

CO. HP Gus? The guy up the street had one in his trunk, I liked living on a dead end street with a CO.HP Crown Vic parked in a driveway at the entrance.
 
I watched a video yesterday that was linked from Free Republic. I looked today and couldn't find the link.
But anyway it was a video of Haitian Police shooting at looters, and one of the Police had what looked like a K98 Mauser. I only saw the profile. And another for sure had a Enfield.
The only other firearm I saw in the video was a pump shotgun, with a full length magazine.
 
That piece does not say so. A Model 951 (1951) is not a 92. It is a single stack single action pistol that got Beretta into the Walther locking system before double action.
Click to expand...

Wow nice catch Jim, I admit it I was in a hurry. Thanks for dispelling mis-information.
 
There was a comment about the officer in the neon vest. One might consider that he was on traffic duty when everything went wrong and that he might not have had time to remove the vest and had to engage muy pronto. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
There was a comment about the officer in the neon vest. One might consider that he was on traffic duty when everything went wrong and that he might not have had time to remove the vest and had to engage muy pronto. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

Oh, of course. In fact, under such cricumstances, I think there actually may be something to be said for wearing highly visible identifying garb. It could attract bullets from some folks, but could also keep you from being shot by the good folks trying to defend themselves, and by your buddies.

It was a mildly humorous juxtaposition of images (seeking cover in the rubble, and wearing neon high-viz clothes) but not a condemnation of the men or their tactics.

If that officer manages to find some time (and a computer, and some electricity, and a connection) and he logs in here and is offended by my comments, I'll apologize publicly.

Now... as for the guy using a carbine without sights... :D

-Sam
 
OK so the meat of the question I have is, if M14s are plentiful down in S. America, and say someone was planning a S. American vacation, what is the feasability of picking up a cheap m14 and having it imported back into the US?
Click to expand...

Always open with a joke! :)

I have some pics from a few years back on my other HD showing Haitian soldiers with M1 Garands. You frequently see US arms in the hands of friendly regimes. "International Aid" shipments often contain arms and ammunition as well as food and medicine.
 
That picture seems odd to me. They are both aiming at the same thing, yet they dont SEEM to be very stressed about it. Also the guy on the motorcycle seems to not be going very fast, and the cop in the street seems oblivious. Just saying.

They seem very... relaxed. So it might just have been a reporter saying " hey can you pose for me?" :)
 
That picture seems odd to me. They are both aiming at the same thing, yet they dont SEEM to be very stressed about it. Also the guy on the motorcycle seems to not be going very fast, and the cop in the street seems oblivious. Just saying.

They seem very... relaxed. So it might just have been a reporter saying " hey can you pose for me?"
Click to expand...

Quite possible. I noticed the same things about the bystanders, though it's hard to tell exactly what they may be doing or thinking from a quick snapshot. But, if they were actually taking incoming rounds, my hat's off to the photog for sticking right there beside them through the fire fight.

-Sam
 
I have a distinct memory of seeing the Haitian soldiers armed with M-1 Garands a few years ago. I can't place where I saw the photo, but I think it was during the late unpleasantness down there before they dissolved the country's military. If my memory is correct they must have been one of the last military forces still using them. It now looks like their police forces have upgraded.
 
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