Guns smuggled on planes from Atlanta to New York

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For what it's worth the illegal gun "trade" here in my area is pretty small and very exceedingly private in my experience (22 years on the street here in south Florida). Any bad actor with knowledge of illegal gun stuff almost has a "get out of jail free" card in his/her back pocket...

I dealt with a few widely diverse snitches and never found one that could turn me on to anything like illegal gun stuff. Most bad guys that I've known simply steal what they need or purchase one off, here and there, in a stranger to stranger transaction. Anything else is mostly TV stuff with the below exception....

I'm sure that weapons headed out of the country are an entirely different proposition.

This entire proposition looks like amateur night to me and no matter what's been said publicly I'll bet someone that knew about it got in a jam and used that card I mentioned to get themselves out of whatever trouble they were in. Anyone that thinks their friends won't fall all over themselves to turn them in if they need to is just dreaming...
 
Lemay...

There was also a not-so-well publicized cocaine distribution racket via a scheduled airline out of...all places...Miami...not so long ago, on my employer airline. Daily flights from Colombia, into MIA, and then the distribution network, potentially...wherever we fly. Which is all over the US.
Did you hear about that? I did...you may not have. It happens, more than you might like to know. Airlines sure don't publicize it. And if the networks don't pick up on it, you won't hear about it.
But just like FedEx employees stealing guns, it happens. Only takes a few percent of any given employee population...and if that population is 100,000 employees, that ends up being a lot of criminal behavior.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Crime is a high risk job, but that does not mean that the criminals are really stupid. Apparently, they managed to ship 131 guns successfully, which is pretty impressive. If they beat the system multiple times, who is stupid?
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The risk reward makes them stupid. The consequences of getting caught far out weigh the reward they could receive to any intelligent person. To risk what they do for the reward they may temporarily get makes them stupid. And they got caught

Stupid people doing stupid things
 
The plan seems too stupid for reality. In those cases i tend to look for the reaction to this percieved crises. More scans for innocent folks and and more gun restrictions for all. Hopefully, constituents are becoming aware of the "crises demands action" scare tactics and will force this isolated stupidity to remain just that. I think we all are getting tired of trading liberty for promises of safety. I used to fly a lot and now opt to drive whenever possible if less than twelve hours away and connected by a bridge.
 
As a couple of people have commented, Airport Security is a JOKE!

All people on the plane go through the same security as the passengers, (which is silly, the pilot could fly the plane into a building if he desired, but they freak out that he might have a pair of fingernail clippers on him!). But the baggage handlers, mechanics, and food and cabin cleaning service people do not.
In fact many of them are felons and foreign citizens, (hopefully with green cards).

According to the news reports, these people who didn't go through the security checkpoints, smuggled the weapons in, and then passed them to people who would be flying on the plane.

Fortunately, the criminal smugglers were only interested in smuggling contraband, not bombs.

Next time you go flying, think about this enormous hole in airport security, and pray that some terrorist organization, or a "lone wolf" doesn't decide to take advantage of it.

Have a nice flight.:)
 
OldMac said:
The plan seems too stupid for reality. In those cases i tend to look for the reaction to this percieved crises. More scans for innocent folks and and more gun restrictions for all. Hopefully, constituents are becoming aware of the "crises demands action" scare tactics and will force this isolated stupidity to remain just that. I think we all are getting tired of trading liberty for promises of safety. I used to fly a lot and now opt to drive whenever possible if less than twelve hours away and connected by a bridge.
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This plan which "seems too stupid for reality" operated for several years. And as in the case of "Fast and Furious" was probably only the tip of the ice berg, with many more uncaught or reported on.

It, from all accounts, operated successfully for several years.
 
we are not amused said:
This plan which "seems too stupid for reality" operated for several years. And as in the case of "Fast and Furious" was probably only the tip of the ice berg, with many more uncaught or reported on.

It, from all accounts, operated successfully for several years.
Click to expand...

First off, I am not a gun-runner and don't know all of the risks and benefits involved. The part that was stupid is that it took several persons to coordinate a somewhat complex smuggling operation. Each added person is a liability as well as well as an asset. The whole crime could have be done by other means with less risk. In addition, it also has a high chance of bringing out the best prosecutors that the US Government has on its staff when they are caught.

Lastly, what it did do was show that there was the huge hole in the airport security model. Hopefully the problem can be fixed before it's exploited by someone with bad intentions for the crew and passengers.

chuck
 
If I've learned anything by reading on THR is that there are bloggers out there who setup web sites just to "create buzz" and perhaps reap advertising revenue. Somehow, I had "side bar headline" saying Moms Demand Action (aka MDA) says Georgia's "Guns Everywhere Law" allows guns pass TSA checkpoints. As I know NO state's carry permit allows anyone though TSA checkpoints, but reporting that it is would be irresponsible at best. I am the very last person to defend MDA, but I didn't see the claim when went to their site. If I had proof MDA had actually claimed this, I would not hesitate to call them liars.

http://buzzpo.com/moms-demand-action-says-ga-guns-everywhere-law-allows-guns-pass-tsa-checkpoint/ <<< LOTs of ads and other junk shows up.... There is the same article floating from another site, but I can't seem to find it in my history.

chuck

PS: Now that I went to MDA website, I will need to run a "anti-anti-gun malware check" on my system. :rolleyes:
 
I'm sure my removing my shoes at the airport has saved millions of lives.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were found out when a baggage handler looking to steal stuff out of luggage noticed them. With all the cameras, security, etc., valuables being looted out of luggage is still a flourishing phenomenon.
 
Here is a question that interests me, when an FFL goes and buys an estate. Like an estate sale of dozens or even a hundred guns, how do they bring them back home?
If they fly them into their home town, what's to stop someone from doing the same thing using forged documents.
That would make the most sense, just put them out in plain sight. With the false ID that is available today, you can probably get any documents you need, including new id and licenses for the crooks. Thus it would look like a legal business deal.
Private citizens pass away all the time and sell their collections. Just following the same procedure as they do would make the most sense. The same would go for driving a rented van with a complete set of papers including bill of sale etc, It may not make sense if they checked each guns serial number, but in a busy airport, I doubt they have the time to do that.
Also flying private is another option on a larger scale.
 
steelerdude99 said:
First off, I am not a gun-runner and don't know all of the risks and benefits involved. The part that was stupid is that it took several persons to coordinate a somewhat complex smuggling operation. Each added person is a liability as well as well as an asset. The whole crime could have be done by other means with less risk. In addition, it also has a high chance of bringing out the best prosecutors that the US Government has on its staff when they are caught.

Lastly, what it did do was show that there was the huge hole in the airport security model. Hopefully the problem can be fixed before it's exploited by someone with bad intentions for the crew and passengers.

chuck
Click to expand...
While I would agree that it seems an overly complicated way to smuggle guns into New York, they apparently did it for quite some time. I am not going to pretend to know why they did it that way.

As far as airport security, it is a joke. It is security theater, for public relations, not for real.
 
george burns said:
Here is a question that interests me, when an FFL goes and buys an estate. Like an estate sale of dozens or even a hundred guns, how do they bring them back home?
If they fly them into their home town, what's to stop someone from doing the same thing using forged documents.
That would make the most sense, just put them out in plain sight. With the false ID that is available today, you can probably get any documents you need, including new id and licenses for the crooks. Thus it would look like a legal business deal.
Private citizens pass away all the time and sell their collections. Just following the same procedure as they do would make the most sense. The same would go for driving a rented van with a complete set of papers including bill of sale etc, It may not make sense if they checked each guns serial number, but in a busy airport, I doubt they have the time to do that.
Also flying private is another option on a larger scale.
Click to expand...
You need an FFL for that. Aparently these guys didn't have one.

Forged documents pose their own risk, in this day of computerised records and cell phones. Too easy to check.

As far as flying them in on private planes, I imagine it happens.
 
I have personally witnessed the failure of airport security when I inadvertently passed through security with a box of 9mm HP's. I didn't notice them until walking fast to a connection at the second airport and I heard a familiar rattle coming from my bag.
I proceeded to my destination and left them there when I returned.
It was by no means a gun but anyone looking at that image on a screen should have clearly been able to know what he was looking at.
I was without my shoes and belt at the time.
 
orionengnr said:
There was also a not-so-well publicized cocaine distribution racket via a scheduled airline out of...all places...Miami...not so long ago, on my employer airline. Daily flights from Colombia, into MIA, and then the distribution network, potentially...wherever we fly. Which is all over the US.
Did you hear about that? I did...you may not have. It happens, more than you might like to know. Airlines sure don't publicize it. And if the networks don't pick up on it, you won't hear about it.
But just like FedEx employees stealing guns, it happens. Only takes a few percent of any given employee population...and if that population is 100,000 employees, that ends up being a lot of criminal behavior.
Click to expand...
I do remember hearing about, or at least about another such incident.

Good point about not advertising it too.

While the flight crew has to go through screening to board the plane, the baggage handlers, mechanics and service personal don't.
 
If you work on a flight ramp throwing bags or refueling aircraft you figure out pretty quick that anyone can put anything onto an aircraft. All of the security theater is up at the gates. There's almost no security on the ramp. We all had full access to the aircraft cabin, cockpit, baggage holds - everything. No one was searching us or running their hands down our pants or looking in our shoes. Airport security is simply to make silly people feel good. It does absolutely nothing to stop attacks on aircraft. Think about how stupid it is to search the pilot/copilot of the aircraft. After you search them they take complete control of the aircraft and its trajectory. They don't need a gun or a knife. They're already in control. I remember a pilot ranting about being searched and they took away his airline silverware he kept in his flight bag because of the butterknife. He said "You realize that they give you this AFTER you board the plane, right?" Nope, we can't let you board with a knife.
 
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Next time take a good look at the airport employees that are behind the wire, it doesn't take an FBI profiler to notice that there are some shady looking folks that have quite a bit of access to the secure portions of airports.
I don't know the reason it hasn't happened but I'm convinced that when our enemies decide to strike it will be due to what we are talking about right now.
 
Now you're thinking like the Israelis. And that's good. Focusing ALL of your security efforts on ONLY the passengers and crew at the boarding gates is pretty dumb when you look at the big picture. But the Govt. doesn't really care if you're safe - as long as you feel safe. And pay your taxes and keep electing them.
 
They probably used planes because it is cheaper then driving. Reducing costs is just good business even for criminals.

Personally the only problem I have with this is that those guns were getting sold to scum bags in NYC instead of law abiding residents.
 
I've gone through the Israeli profiling and you best answer truthfully and not get your story tangled up or your probably going to miss your flight.
 
About 4 years ago there was a FEDEX air hub theft case on the same route. Airline workers were taking overnight packages heading to gun shops and sporting goods stores and taking the firearms to resell.
 
For Orion, actually there have been lots and lots of conspiracies regarding dope coming out of south Florida (and it's been moved by everything under the sun).. It's so common (even though it's settled down a bunch from what was going on down here 30 or 40 years ago -I'm a pretty old dude -my police career, only 22 years worth was from 1973 to 1995) that in my era you couldn't even get DEA to come out for less than a kilo of high grade powder.

One other small note... I'd rate drug type smuggling almost 1000% more common that gun smuggling. After all when I started as a cop.... a kilo of coke (according the Miami Herald) was around $63,000... When I left the job the same nasty stuff was going for 16 to 17,000 a key (and our local importers were fronting three or four bricks to some of their customers - and would allow payment later....). That, to me, means that we absolutely lost that particular "war"... Guns, now, at least in my area, were always a very small and quiet proposition - unless you were trying to export weapons for somebody's conflict somewhere outside the states....
 
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