Guns to sale/trade in a National Emergency

[Acera]

A close friend and I were having this conversation last weekend, and I thought it was worthy to see what the THR members positions would be.

If there was an emergency where people needed firearms and asked you for a firearm, do you have any that you would trade for something of value? Things of value might be gasoline, food, medical supplies, shelter, money, gold, safe passage, etc. Or even to better arm your neighbors in case of riots or other civil unrest.

Lets assume that you would not take advantage of your family and close friends. Lets also assume that current laws regarding transfers in your part of the country are either not enforceable, or not being enforced due to the crisis. So no detrimental legal effects from a weapon transfer will come down on you. (taking precautions to not get shot with the gun you just sold)

I defiantly have some, since I probably would not be able to carry all them if I needed to relocate. I have others that are better suited for use as a defensive or offensive weapons.

1st Italian military Terni 6.5mm 40 rounds
2nd MAS36 with 60 rounds of ammo.
3rd Mosin with 40 rounds
4th K98 with 40 +/- rounds
5th SMLE with a few rounds


I figured all those due to the small amount of ammo I have, the difficulty of obtaining those cartridges, slow rates of fire, and ease of understanding their working by an untrained individual. Plus the bayonets should add value as a knife. (possibly good guns to get another gun with)

Now here would be a jump in expected compensation for the next sets. Which would all come with easier to get ammo.

Couple of bolt action shotguns
Variety of Lever guns from .22 to .357 (but not the model 94)
Single shot .22s
Black powder pistols

Bigger jump in expected return....

Cetme
03A3 Springfield
AK 47
Brothers FN/FAL (if he did not come get it)
Older pistols and single action revolvers
Prototypical hunting rifles and hunting shotguns.


This would leave me with an practical set of military style rifles (able to hunt all types of North American game), handguns, and a couple shotguns (if I needed to shoot a bird or two, and/or for close in defense). These I would not give up without a fight. Plus there would be enough to arm each member of the family/group of friends. Limiting my ammo needs to a handful of the most popular, effective and my largest current inventory.

Ok, lets hear where you stand. What would you give up, if you would give anything up.

(I am not talking about openly selling to gang bangers, thugs, but maybe to the single mom down the street. Always taking precautions to maintain security of my group.)

 

[armoredman]

If they know you have enough firearms/ammo to trade some away, they may want to use what you gave them to take the rest.

 

[Ed Ames]

It's a very good reason for having a few single-shot rifles/shotguns around. If you have the AR with a full mag and they have a 20ga break action and a handful of shells they aren't likely to try anything.

I can see many cases where I would give/barter firearms in an emergency.

 

[wideym]

Even a 20ga break action with one shell will kill you, or a knife to the gut, or rock to the head, etc.., but I would limit who I would barter a firearm with.

It would have to be someone I know well enough and never with a stranger, even if you would get a huge return. It's just not worth the risk to yourself or your family to have it potentially used against you.

That would expecially include ammo. You may not think much of a guy wanting some .308, .223, 9mm, or 45acp rounds, but they could have a FAL, AR, or quality pistol that only needs ammo to out gun you and take what they want.

 

[RyanM]

Anyone who I'd be willing to trade or sell a firearm to in a crisis like that, I would give the firearm to, no strings attached, if they needed one, and I had one to spare.

 

[Baba Louie]

I think it was Jeff Cooper who opined that ammo might be used as bartering money in an emergency type setting... not a bad thought process in a manner of thinking.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Worth considering of course--but the few potentially 'expendable' weapons I have would go to needy members of my family (related by blood and otherwise). I don't really own any junk guns and not planning on carrying passengers or trading them--I have few to spare they are completely adequate for one or two.

But then again, ask me again in that moment what I'm willing to trade for something my family needs. The world is uncertain.

 

[CZ223]

I certainly have extras

and in a situation like that portrayed in the show Jericho I can see where might I need to trade for other things. But remember, some people should not have guns because they don't have the mindset to use them. Shortly after 911 a friend of mine called asking which gun to buy. He is a great guy but he is a pacifist. I told him he shouldn't buy anything. I asked him what he thought he was going to do with it anyway. He said he was afraid of more attacks. I told him unless they were sending armies of people who was he gonna protect himself from. I explained that if there were more attacks and mass panic set in the biggest threat to him involved fighting his neighbors in the grocery store for the last gallon of milk. I told him to think about it for a while and if he still wanted to buy a gun I would be willing to help him buy one and teach him the basics. When our conversation was about over he said if there are more attacks can I go shopping with you?

 

[velojym]

I'd be careful what I gave away before knowing what sort of barter I'd need to do to take care of my family. I'd loan a rifle to a neighbor in a life-or-death situation, but I'm pretty sure if they really needed it, they'd have something to trade.
You could add some value by packaging, which would also increase their "Need it NOW! utility. Say, if you packaged a Makarov with two boxes of ammo and two magazines, having already cleaned, test fired, and properly wrapped it all up in a neat bundle, that could be sold as a 'ready to roll' pack.
No, it isn't nearly a Glock and a full loadout, but for trade goods, sure.
I agree with the single shot rifles and shotguns, too. Anything you can pick up for under a hundred bucks now, and set aside with a couple boxes (at least) of ammo each, could be a virtual goldmine one day.
Naturally, you'd need to be pretty picky when bartering, but I wouldn't screw myself out of an excellent source of 'income' out of fear that it'd be used against me. Hell, they could do that with some other gun anyway. Just take precautions at the swap meet. If there's any concern over safety, maybe a group of GOOD folks can offer some security services in exchange for... whatever can be arranged.

I think it would be pretty marketable to the folks who get caught out in the cold; a rifle and/or pistol with ammo and accessories, one place, one price, no worries (maybe no warranty, but let 'em know everything's been inspected and test fired). Pretty durned attractive, ya ask me. Worth more than a few chickens.

 

[Moonclip]

I could basically arm my whole block quite well and then some but I don't really ever see that happening! Of course a few guns would go to the appropriate people.

 

[aaronrkelly]

No trading or selling of firearms from my house in such occasions.

I have plenty, they are for me and mine.

Mine includes close friends and family.....if you need a gun and are contributing to the solution and not the problem Im willing to help.

But Im not trading them or bartering with them.....if you qualify they are your to used, if not you couldnt buy them nothing.

 

[stubbicatt]

Unless there were some tactical advantage to me in the trade, my thought is why didn't the ninny buy his own gun when he could. If his family is worth defending now, why wasn't it worth defending then?

 

[jackstinson]

and in a situation like that portrayed in the show Jericho I can see where might I need to trade for other things.

Hey in the Jericho situation, I'd be just fine and dandy. I'm living in the new capital of The United States Of America! Thank you Robert Hawkins!
I do have guns and ammo to trade. But in that sort of situation, useful skills might be better than guns for bartering. As for family? They would be supplied with guns and ammo, they are family.
Jack

 

[Aaryq]

Sorry, Charlie. My guns are for me and mine to defend/feed me and mine.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I might barter medicine and food, possibly seed if I had more than I could plant and reap and thought someone else could grow a good amount as well. I can think of a lot of things I'd barter in a TEOTWAWKI....Firearms and ammo are NOT in that list (at least not on a list for strangers).

EDIT: Let me make that two lists... One of my "community", folks I can trust. The other list is what I would/wouldn't trade to strangers "passin' through".

 

[wuchak]

I'd rather turn them into arms that are generally available to everyone in whatever compound I find myself holed-up in. They become the rifles for those without to carry on watch or the extra rifles to have set by each window. This way my guns are still playing the role of defending me. They are just in someone else's hands. Of course since we are a group if my contribution is the guns to help keep everyone safe then I would expect that "payment" would come a) by people carrying the guns and helping defend my family and me, b) the availability to my family and I of food, generators, and other supplies brought by others.

Picture a couple of hundred people taking refuge in the old stone Church in town. You know, the one with 24+" thick stone walls and the tower with the shooting notches and a commanding view of the surrounding area. A group like this is going to need some extra arms for defense and if they'll let my wife and I join them I'll let them use my guns.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Picture a couple of hundred people taking refuge in the old stone Church in town. You know, the one with 24+" thick stone walls and the tower with the shooting notches and a commanding view of the surrounding area.

Reminds me of a bit of trivia about why old churches looked like forts... because they were. All of the really old traditional churches also had fountains. They got installed for "religious ceremony" reasons but they were also -always- attached to a well dug within the church so if folks had to "fort up" they had a source of water that couldn't be interrupted.

 

[mbt2001]

During the depression, many bartered / traded .22lr shells.

A good option is to stockpile blackpowder guns. Eventually, no matter how much ammo you have, making your own black powder is a good idea. If for no other reason than to prolong the life of your shells. Once they are gone, they are gone and it makes since to keep them for a tactical situation in which you need to outgun the enemy.

Trading blackpowder guns wouldn't be as risky and if you have all the black powder and were making more, it would give you "customers". But eventually you would run out of lead... Fortunately, you can stock pile lead somewhat cheaper and easier than just about anything else.

 

[tinygnat219]

Depends on who we are talking about. If it's a trusted friend and neighbor seeking refuge, they get a weapon and limited ammo if they come to stay with me. If it's a neighbor I don't know, then they don't get a thing. The last thing I need is for them to hold me up with my own gear.

 

[Ed Ames]

Old stone church? Huh?

Anyway, here's the deal...

You can't live alone. You can't live without at least some people to trust. You need a community. Community means people who share approximately your values and behave in ways you find acceptable.

If you are a reasonably ethical person of good character you'll need a community of people you consider to be reasonably ethical and of good character. You should be living near/with them now. If you are a zombie/vampire you'll need a hive/nest/whatever of others you consider to be zombies/vampires. You should be living near/with them now. I say now because when disaster strikes you aren't going to have a lot of spare time to find a new social group.

In any case you should be able to trust those people enough that the idea of them with weapons doesn't change your desire to be part of their community. Why? Because a lot of them already have weapons and more will end up with weapons in the long run.

So there you are... in a community... and someone shows up saying "Hey! Gunsman! I tripped and bent the barrel on my shotgun... you got anything I can use? I'll share my next few deer with you and I got some diesel fuel set by..."

What are you going to say? "I've got a lot but you can't have any. I care about my family and you should've thought about the consequences before you went and tripped!" Or maybe: "Yeah, I got something you can use... but I won't sell it to you because you migt shoot me... or gut me with a knife... or.... whatever...." Or... here's something I can just see some of you saying, "Diesel! You have diesel? Well I've got a shotgun right here...hehehe...let's have that diesel before I shoot you with my NightAvengerTM SuperPowerMaxTM Slugs...hehehe...I don't want to have to carry diesel and a body now do I?"

Doesn't sound like you are much use to the community.
Doesn't seem like any decent community would want to live near you.

Now try this: "Well I don't have much... but I tell you what... you give me that bent shotgun of yours and a whole deer next time you can and I'll give you this NEF Pardner 12ga and a box of assorted shells... and, if I can get your shotty's barrels straightened out I'll let you know."

Will that scenario ever play out? Not really... but scenarios like it do play out every day and no matter how bad the disaster your community is what it you make it.