Gunsmith Won't Return Rifle

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Turkey Creek

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One year ago I sent a 1885 Low Wall Uberti 22LR to a gunsmith via USPS to have the trigger lightened up a bit and to have the stock sights replaced- I have used this guy before with no problems- I know some gunsmiths are busy, but after a full year of waiting with periodic checks with him about the progress, I decided enough was enough, and requested the rifle back-

Emails to him are not answered- Several phone calls have been answered by someone who says he is not the gunsmith but works for him- His standard response is that the rifle "is on his work bench"- My requests to have the rifle returned are answered by this guy saying he will leave a note for the gunsmith- I asked to be called to let me know what I owed for any work done and return shipping- Again I was told a message would be left for the gunsmith- No return calls have been recieved-

Of course all kinds of thoughts run through my head for the extraordinary delay and general runaround I am getting- Has the trigger been screwed up irrepairably?- Has he sold the rifle?-

I'd like some suggestions as to how to proceed- I'd rather not get involved with the Feds but is this an option?- Any other ideas?
 
Send a registered letter staing the rifle is to be returned immeadiatly. I do eccommend seeing if there's anyon in his area that would be willing and able to stop in to see this gunsmith personally to see what's up.
 
Document your requests for termination of requested work and return of your property. Save all e-mails.

Send a polite but firm request via US Postal Mail (certified/registered).
Explain in your letter that you intend to file criminal theft charges with the police if you do not receive weapon within a reasonable time frame.

If no response...file report of theft with your/his local police, contact better business bureau in his state, and contact the BATFE.
 
I'm going to assume that the smith has an FFL. Get the ATF involved.
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I disagree most strenuously. The AFTE is NOT a consumer protection agency. They exist to enfore firearms laws, and they deal with a heavy hand. Nuking the site from orbit sounds a bit over the top to me. Frankly, I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that we can call Mommy ATFE every time we have an issue in our ranks. Geez louise, guys - do you want the rifle back, or do you want to ensure that the gunsmith gets jacked up in Federal prison?

Were this my rifle, my first step would be to try and find a local THR member who can pay a visit to the gunsmith and have a face-to-face chat. Failing that, I would send a registered letter requesting immediate contact and the subsequent return of the rifle. If, after a reasonable amount of time, I received no contact and no rifle, I would probably attempt to file a civil suit against the gunsmith. I wonder how effective a criminal charge of theft would be, given that you freely sent him the rifle with no promised date of return.

I would do everything in my power to keep the matter in civil court and out of criminal court. After all, I would just want my rifle back and criminal charges seem a bit excessive unless all other options have failed.
 
Don't assume that the person answering the phone is passing your message along to the smith properly. If you have used him before without problems it seems like there might be something else going on. It could be that the employee who answered the phone made the gun disappear. Until you speak with the smith directly I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He might just have a dishonest employee that he doesn't know about. As others have suggested I would send a certified letter with delivery confirmation requiring not just a signature, but the signature of the smith. The guy answering the phone could also sign for the letter and make that disappear. In the letter I would let him know what steps you have taken to contact him so far and that you would like to have your rifle returned by xx/xx/xxxx or you will have to escalate the issue to the ATFE, police, attorney general's office, better business bureau etc.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

-Wuchak

Response to rbernie
I understand where you are coming from but I think if there is a strong reason to believe that a firearm has been stolen you need to contact the police immediately. If you believe that a gunsmith or FFL holder is involved in the theft then notifying the ATF is also a good idea. Based on what was reported so far I would be concerned but I do not think there is enough information to call it stolen yet. I think either the rifle is still sitting at the gunsmith's waiting to be worked on or the employee on the phone has made it disappear. Until the gunsmith himself is heard from I would assume that the rifle is still sitting in his shop and the employee on the phone has just messed up the communications.
 
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ATF might be the only recourse...and...post this con-artist's name everywhere if he doesn't cooperate so others won't become his victims!

Hopefully you have solid proof that he received the gun (?) so that he can't claim otherwise...

While a backlog can happen, there is NO excuse for lack of communication.

I went through a similar experience where I dealt with a dealer to sell my guns thru an online auction. Seems he was always "waiting for buyers' checks to clear" when I inquired about the $$ due me from the sales...finally bought a gun from him to use up my "credit".

Good luck!
 
In Michigan, to refuse to return a person's property is theft! Does he want to become a felon?

Don't go via the BAFTE. Call him and send a certified letter to advise that if the rifle isn't returned, that you will be contacting the State Police in his area. I would CC: that letter to the State Police. In the event he does not return the rifle by the specified date, have them retrieve the rifle.

The danger, if they arrest him, the rifle becomes evidence until the trial is over. Caught between a rock and a hard spot.

Please post the name, address and telephone of the business and "smith" so that others do not fall into this situation. Place it here, and create a thread in the transactions area.
 
Good Lord. Don't call the ATF. If they take action, you'll never get your gun back. They will confiscate all the guns at the shop, toss them in big barrels, scratch-dent-damage them, let them sit somewhere to rust for years, ignore your requests for your property (but put you on the list of troublemakers), etc., etc., etc.

The ATF is not your friend. The ATF is not there to help you. The ATF does not like you. The ATF has almost unlimited power.
 
Report it stolen and be sure the police in his area go to his door and seize it so it can be returned and he can be summoned for being in possession of stolen property. AFTER YOU DEMAND IT'S RETURN.

I'm a detective for a Sheriff's office, that's how it works in my area.
 
You have a couple of choices here:

1. Speak directly to the gunsmith, or the business manager of the shop, find out what's going on, explain the situation with the clerk, and ask for it back. If he stutters, or refuses further state you will be going forward with a criminal and civil suit unless the rifle is returned in a reasonsable time, say 2 weeks. Follow this up with a certified letter.

2. Contact a local attorney and have him be your middleman for communications.

Either way's going to be pricey.
 
understand where you are coming from but I think if there is a strong reason to believe that a firearm has been stolen you need to contact the police immediately. If you believe that a gunsmith or FFL holder is involved in the theft then notifying the ATF is also a good idea.
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I do not disagree with this. But right now, there is no proof of theft - only an inability to determine the rifle's status. That's why I think that the first step is to establish reliable face2face comm.

Report it stolen and be sure the police in his area go to his door and seize it so it can be returned and he can be summoned for being in possession of stolen property. AFTER YOU DEMAND IT'S RETURN.

I'm a detective for a Sheriff's office, that's how it works in my area.
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If someone steals my property, this is exactly what I'd do - it's good advice. But let's not all jump on the 'treat it as stolen' bandwagon until reliable comm has been made and the gunsmith still refuses to return the rifle.

I'd feel pretty bad jacking somebody up until I knew in my heart that they were trying to jack ME up.

Good Lord. Don't call the ATF. If they take action, you'll never get your gun back. They will confiscate all the guns at the shop, toss them in big barrels, scratch-dent-damage them, let them sit somewhere to rust for years, ignore your requests for your property (but put you on the list of troublemakers), etc., etc., etc.

The ATF is not your friend. The ATF is not there to help you. The ATF does not like you. The ATF has almost unlimited power
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This bears repeating. Calling ATFE is the equivilent to nuking the site from orbit because its the only way to be sure that it's destroyed. It is not a means of surgically extracting your rifle.
 
It must be a professional quality, I've never known a friendly Gunsmith, this one obviously sounds like he is going for the top job of ornery smiths.
 
I'd send a certified letter demanding it's return within a time frame. In that letter I'd also nicely explain that if the gun is not returned in X number of days that it will be reported stolen, the local police notified, and the ATF notified.

After that letter you'll know if you'll ever see your gun again.
 
+10 for resolving this yourself, using the courts or BATFE as worse and worst resorts.

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt: maybe the smith is sick and for whatever reason his people don't want to make it known. A year is a long time to wait, but if you've waited this long another month won't kill you.

Do send a certified/registered letter requiring the smith's signature, notifying him that you expect the return of the rifle within, say, 14 days unless he speaks to you personally. Mention the possibility of a civil suit, but leave theft charges out of it unless things continue to deteriorate. The money you spend in court will cost more than the value of the rifle.

It's also possible, as was suggested above, that the rifle has been lost, stolen, or damaged. If so, you need to speak to the smith personally to figure out what he's willing to do to compensate you for your loss.

As always, IANAL.
 
I agree the ATF is last resort. Call them one last time. Inform the "helper" that if the smith does not contact you by end of week you will start legal proceedings. Then on Wed send a certified letter. (you do know how to mock up a legal sounding letterhead don't you) "From the Offices of E. R Morgand and Stanley"
Dear Sir:
Our client (you) has informed us you have had in your posession a rifle (serial number/model) sincle (date). Our client has requested the status from your shop both via e-mail and telephone. etc.etc.etc.
End it out with "Unless contact is made by March 21st we will have no option but to consider legal actions"
(that way you are not making a serious theat as legal actions can make anything)
 
Registered letter, demanding return of your property immediately. Send the letter to the gunsmith by name, not to the company, and ask that it be delivered only to the addressee with signature required.

If he refuses to accept it the USPS will send it back to you and so note.

If he refuses delivery, or if he receives the letter and doesn't return the rifle immediately, report the weapon as stolen to your local PD and give them the details.
 
(you do know how to mock up a legal sounding letterhead don't you)
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DO NOT DO THIS. The last thing you need is to be accused of impersonating a lawyer or whatever. While a lawyer's advice might be helpful, you don't need a lawyer's intervention to threaten legal proceedings. Just send a letter by certified mail.

DO NOT DO THIS.
DO NOT DO THIS.
DO NOT DO THIS.
 
Thank you all for some very good advice- I too am reluctant to get the Feds involved- Sounds like a rather strongly worded Certified letter is the way to go initially- If push comes to shove, reporting the problem to the local or state authorities would be the follow up action- I will keep everyone ifnormed as to the progress of this situation- Again, thanks to all for some very helpful advice-
 
Thank you all for some very good advice- I too am reluctant to get the Feds involved- Sounds like a rather strongly worded Certified letter is the way to go initially- If push comes to shove, reporting the problem to the local or state authorities would be the follow up action- I will keep everyone ifnormed as to the progress of this situation- Again, thanks to all for some very helpful advice-
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It is hard to come to a message board for advice. You're going to get a lot of it... and a lot of bad counsel.

You've figured out the right thing to do here. I don't know what state you're in, but the authorites may tell you it is a civil issue, not criminal. The gun is not stolen; you gave it to him to repair. You may have to sue him and have the court compel him to produce the gun.

I would hire a lawyer to do this and be sure to sue for legal fees as well.

But, you have the right idea. Write a certified letter spelling out the entire case.... "I gave you my gun, serial #####, on such and such a date, over a year later, blah blah... repeated attempts to contact you... blah-blah blah. I strongly urge you to contact me within 72 hours at ###-###-#####.

Keep a copy of the letter, don't threaten further action. Just follow through if he doesn't contact you.

And good luck.
 
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