Gus McCrae's Colt Walker in Lonesome Dove

[ClemBert]

Its been quite a while since I last watched the movie Lonesome Dove. Does anyone recall watching Gus reload his Walker? I can't remember if Gus was supposed to be shooting it cap-n-ball style or if it was supposed to be a cartridge converted Walker. We know from the Internet Movie Firearms DataBase that you can see it is cartridge converted but is this done only for the benefit of safety during filming of the movie? Or, is he really supposed to be presented as having a cartridge converted Walker? If I recall correctly, there is a reload scene during the attack by Indians where he is holed-up along a creek bed. Anyone recall the specifics?

It is interesting to see the cartridge conversion has no loading gate. You would think there would be the potential of the rim of the cartridges jamming in the loading area as the cylinder is rotated. That is, if the firearm is pointed up while the cylinder is rotated. Also, there doesn't appear to be a firing pin spur on the hammer which lends me to ask how they would even firing blank cartridges in this conversion. On modern day cartridge converters there is a rear ring that contains the firing pin(s).

 

[TheBigAR2003]

It was converted that's obvious but I don't recall a reloading scene might have to watch it again. In the book Gus carried a dragoon not a walker and deets carried a walker

 

[Bluehawk]

I would think if it was supposed to be represented as a cartridge gun, wouldn't Gus have had cartridges on his belt? I seem to recall he had a small pouch on his belt..much like many would if it was still cap & ball

 

[mykeal]

Cartridge belts are a Hollywood invention. They would not have had such a thing in the time frame represented by Lonesome Dove.

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Holster Belts with cartridge loops circa- post 1847


A while back I picked up the 2 Disc Collectors Edition of what Robert Duvall calls his most memorable role. Augustus (I named an Old Yelow Tabby after him years ago) doesn't reload the converted Walker during the fight at the creek. He is wearing some leather pouch looking thing on his right hip, behind the knife. It could of course be a cartridge pouch, but this is of course Hollywood so it would be pretty much left to who was doing wardrobe that day. With the Walker on the left side he would have little room for anything there.


Most soldiers during the Civil War and the later Indian Wars were pretty much stuck with what they were issued. Above is a picture of a 7th Cal pouch, from the Civil War or Indian Wars. With what the average grunt was getting paid back then, he could afford little else.

Augustus and the fellows from Lonesome Dove of course fictional characters but in the spirit of our discussion, if they had been real in that era....Texas Rangers they would have been issued or acquired certain tools of the trade. Since these guys were retired and augmenting their incomes with those little trips across the border, they would have a few dollars to spare.


Did they have cartridge belts in that Era? Here's a few from 1858.


This was of course a more basic belt.



Here are a few more from the 1860s-1870s Era.


Granted they may not have caried a lot of those holster rigs we see in the movies but there were a few fellows back then who spent some bucks for some great rigs. Which of course are now selling for about $800. as antiques.


http://www.auctionflex.com/showlots...ate=20110901&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=34&lang=En
I've been sitting in the office at home this morning, waiting for a phone call from Poulin's regarding some phone bidding I'm supposed to be doing today.

Have a look at these little bits of leather works being sold at auction in Maine.

It's always nice though to pass a little time, by throwing in a DVD and checking out Lonesome Dove. The "Ex-Wife to be" made off with the original DVD Set of the Lonesome Dove mini-series. Good thing I had a spare.

 

[ClemBert]

Nice pics!

I guess we are left to wonder if he was supposed to be shooting a cartridge conversion or not. I'm gonna assume that he's supposed to be shooting a cap-n-ball revolver. The year is 1876 so I suppose it could be either way. No tellin' what some gunsmiths were converting back then.

 

[Bluehawk]

I was always curious as to what time frame the movie purported to be...Clembert how did ya figure out it was 1876?

 

[ClemBert]

Look under the section labeled "Plot". Lonesome Dove

 

[Bluehawk]

Here are two cartridge belts from 1876...throwing out the myth only Hollywood cowboys had belts of this type.
Description:
Both marked “J. S. Collins & Co. Cheyenne, Wyo.” Circa 1876.
1) 3 1/4” wide w/ 38 cal. loops. Belt re-stitched but retains orig. billet & buckle. Bottom edge well worn & end of billet shows heavy use.
2) 4 1/2” wide Hunter’s style belt w/ 1 row of orig. loops & 1 row of replaced loops. Belt re-stitched around edges. Added holes on billet go through maker’s mark. Retains some nice color. CONDITION: fair to very good. PROVENANCE: David Crocker Collection. (02-2593-1/BL) $800-1200 lot

 

[surbat6]

The pouch could also be intended for nitrated paper cartridges.
I believe the intention was to represent Gus as clinging to the old C&B Walker from his days as a ranger. Note that he also carries a Henry rifle when improved repeaters were available.
Other characters in the movie carry 1873 Colts as well as 1866 and 1873 Winchesters.

 

[panzer426]

In Dead Mans Walk, which is the prequel to Lonesome Dove, I remember Gus, Woodrow and other Texas Rangers being presented with the brand new Walkers. I THINK I remember the Lonesome Dove reload scene in the gully shows Gus start to reload by operating the lever under the barrel (don't really know my bp revolvers), scene cut, then back to Gus putting Walker back in holster.

 

[ClemBert]

Slowhand was correct. You can watch the clip here.

 

[FiveStrings]

My Alma Mater, Southwest Texas State University (now Texas State) hosts an exhibit of a lot of items and props from the Lonesome Dove movie, including Gus McCrae's pistol and gunbelt. It's called the Witliff Lonesome Dove Collection.

http://www.thewittliffcollections.txstate.edu/collections/lonesome-dove/film/online-exhibit.html

 

[SpikeBayonet]

Based on the above link - it looks like Gus' belt has a Civil War-era (percussion) cap pouch attached.

However, this doesn't really answer the cap-and-ball v. percussion question at all since it was a common practice to use a cap pouch (or even several cap pouches - the result looking like some sort of Victorian-era Batman utility belt) attached to a belt to carry loose cartridges (especially pistol/revolver cartridges) in the early cartridge era - especially in the Army since there were a lot of cap pouches in inventory left over from the Civil War...