Guys I need help in a letter to the editor battle

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crewsr

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A Scott Magnuson-Martinson a chair-elect of the Sociology, Anthropolgy & Law Enforcement departments of Normandale Community College in Bloomington,MN made a few comments about my letter to the editor, by writing his own letter (of which is anti Minnesota conceal carry) and in it he states
"Can he name even one well-docummented incident of someone with one of these new permits who has saved their own, or another's, life because they were armed?"

" Ask virtually any chief of police. Few of them support this legislation because they know that it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."

"Unfortunately, Neither existing laws nor the new legislation make people that much safer. More guns in the hands of the public generally means more homicides between friends, relatives and neighbors, as well as more suicides."



I need help on gathering data, websites....anything about these 3 statements to really kick this guys butt on paper.





this was my letter that he commented on:



Is your Life worth Protecting?
It appears that the Majority of Minnesotians, with
passage of the new Minnesota Personal Protection Act
2005, agree. It also appears that Kim Stanley, who is
a rep from the Repeal-conceal carry coalition, that
from her letter to this editor on May 19th, disagrees.
It is a sad but true irony that on page 20a of the
same Sun Current Bloomington edition that her letter
appears that, a headline reads,: "Home Burglarized as
two residents sleep" Now as a father of two small
boys I cant think of anything more violating and scary
then to have crminals walking around my house going
from room to room doing what they please. God forbid
they take one of my kids in the dead of night. If
their intent is evil, what I am going to
do....Kim...call you?...call the police and hope that
in the five minutes it takes them to reach my house,
my wife is not raped and kids are not killed? Whos
responsable for the protection of my family??
You?....the Police? United States Courts have
universally ruled that the police have no legal
obligation for the personal protection of any citizen.
So what should law-abiding citezen do?
Minnesota is now among 45 states that realize
law-bidding citzens have the dignity and the right to
protect their own lives from crime. While you and
others spend so much time limiting the rights of
law-abiding, tax paying citizens. It is not time we
serious about crime, justice....and Liberty?
 
Here's some info.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html


Liberalized Concealed Carry Laws


Introduction
First, what are "liberalized" concealed carry laws? They are a set of requirements, when met by an applicant, require the issuance of a concealed carry permit, which allows a permit holder to carry a gun (concealed) in public places. These requirements may consist of a license fee, a safety training program or exam, fingerprinting, a "clean" record, no history of mental illness, etc. In other words it is not left to the discretion of local authorities to decide whether or not to issue a permit. Liberalized concealed carry laws are more often referred to as "shall-issue concealed carry weapons" laws.

In 1987, when Florida enacted such legislation, critics warned that the "Sunshine State" would become the "Gunshine State." Contrary to their predictions, homicide rates dropped faster than the national average. Further, through 1997, only one permit holder out of the over 350,000 permits issued, was convicted of homicide. (Source: Kleck, Gary Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, p 370. Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.) If the rest of the country behaved as Florida's permit holders did, the U.S. would have the lowest homicide rate in the world.

David Kopel, Research Director at the Independence Institute comments on Florida's concealed carry experience:

"What we can say with some confidence is that allowing more people to carry guns does not cause an increase in crime. In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit." ("More Permits Mean Less Crime..." Los Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5)
Thirty-five states have enacted "shall-issue" concealed carry laws , and two states, Alaska and Vermont, do not require any permit of its residents (state map of concealed carry laws).

The Lott-Mustard Report

John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime. Lott writes, "Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes."

(Source: "More Guns, Less Violent Crime", Professor John R. Lott, Jr., The Wall Street Journal, August 28, 1996, (The Rule of Law column).

Whether or not one believes a portion of the drop in violent crime is due to "shall-issue" legislation, Lott's study provides strong evidence that allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not increase gun crime or fatal gun accident rates.

Do states with right-to-carry laws have lower violent crime and homicide rates?

John Lott's paper (PDF format) and datasets.

John Lott refutes claims that Texan concealed carry permit-holders are not as law-abiding as other Texas citizens. [ HTML]

Economist and Nobel Laureate, Milton Friedman, on John Lott's research:

"This sophisticated analysis yields a well established conclusion that supports the wisdom of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution rather than of those who would limit the right of law-abiding citizens to own and carry guns. . . . Lott has done us all a service by his thorough, thoughtful scholarly approach to a highly controversial issue."
John Lott responds to criticism from Stephen Teret JD MPH of the Johns Hopkins Violence Research Group.
Former New York Congressman (now Senator), Charles Schumer makes an insinuation regarding the funding of John Lott's research, William Simon rebuts, in letters to The Wall Street Journal.

A Reason Online interview with John Lott who "discusses the benefits of guns--and the hazards of pointing them out."

An interview with John Lott Jr. (With a plug for his book.)

A paper by Mark Duggan, "More Guns, More Crime," which as the title suggests comes to a different conclusion than Lott's research, is summarized in this article from the Economist magazine. Lott's response to the article is available here.

A Critical Examination of John Lott's Paper


A page of links critical of John Lott's research, responses, and comments. (Also see site author David Friedman's comments.)

Although this article by Rutgers University professor Dr. Goertzel is critical of Lott's study, regardless of which side of the gun control debate you reside, he offers sound advice: "When presented with an econometric model, consumers should insist on evidence that it can predict trends in data other than the data used to create it. Models that fail this test are junk science, no matter how complex the analysis." (Goertzel's comments bring to mind the old saw: Economics is the one science that makes astrology look respectable.")

An exchange between John Lott and physics professor and author, Robert Ehrlich, who claims more guns simply means more guns.

More links to papers discussing Lott's research.

John Lott's Newest Paper on Concealed Carry (April 1999)

From the conclusion of John Lott's latest paper titled, "Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings,and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement:"

The results of this paper support the hypothesis that concealed handgun or shall issue laws reduce the number of multiple victim public shootings. Attackers are deterred and the number of people injured or killed per attack is also reduced, thus for the first time providing evidence that the harm from crimes that still occur can be mitigated. The results are robust with respect to different specifications of the dependent variable, different specifications of the handgun law variable, and the inclusion of additional law variables (e.g., mandatory waiting periods and enhanced penalties for using a gun in the commission of a crime). Not only does the passage of a shall issue law have a significant impact on multiple shootings but it is the only law related variable that appears to have a significant impact.
--- To view the entire paper (Adobe Acrobat Reader required) click here.
(A critique of Lott's study is available in the links cited in the previous section.)
Should Permit Holders be Subject to the Same Training as Police Officers?

No. Of course permit holders should be knowledgeable and proficient in the many aspects of defensive gun use, however as Jeffrey Snyder says in FIGHTING BACK: Crime, Self-Defense, and the Right to Carry a Handgun :

"Permit holders need concern themselves with only one thing: protecting themselves from a sudden, violent assault that threatens life or grievous bodily injury. Rape, robbery, and attempted murder are not typically actions rife with ambiguity or subtlety, requiring special powers of observation, great book-learning, or a stint at the police academy to discern. When a man pulls a knife on a woman and says, 'You're coming with me,' her judgment that a crime is being committed is not likely to be in error."
"Police, by contrast, do not carry arms solely for the purpose of defending themselves, but also for the purpose of enforcing the law. They deliberately inject themselves into potentially dangerous and violent situations, responding to calls for assistance, investigating crimes, intervening in domestic violence, and making arrests."

The police have much wider duties and responsibilities than civilian concealed carry weapon (CCW) permit holders do. As a result, opposing CCW laws because police receive greater weapons training or requiring civilians to receive the same training as police officers is unwarranted. (Snyder's article also points-out that police mistakenly kill roughly 300 innocent victims per year versus around 30 per year by civilians.)
Additional Sources

The NRA's viewpoint on right to carry laws.

Handgun Control Inc.'s Carrying Concealed Weapons - Questions & Answers and Concealed Weapons, Concealed Risk.

One attorney's opinion why carrying a handgun in public may not be for everyone, but it is a right that government ought to respect. A brief, but informative history of concealed-carry laws, the motives behind early handgun licensing and registration laws, and misconceptions regarding concealed carry are discussed.

The Florida Department of State - Division of Licensing, concealed weapons/firearms reports on CCW holders.

The Texas Department of Public Safety, arrest information for Texas concealed handgun license holders.

Concealed carry statutes at gunlaws.com.

Additional concealed carry statute information by state from packing.org.
 
"Can he name even one well-docummented incident of someone with one of these new permits who has saved their own, or another's, life because they were armed?"

My name is David Haagensen. I work at Abbott Northwestern. I used my CCW to stop a carjacker last year. It was in the paper.

Google is your friend.



FWIW, the Minneapolis PD treated me like crap. Listen to those who say to shut up and lawyer up. The police are not your friend in Minneapolis. YMMV.
 
" Ask virtually any chief of police. Few of them support this legislation because they know that it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."
So what? At one point in time, a majority of those in power supported slavery, too.
 
"...it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."


Tell this loser that the exact same thing can be said of GUN CONTROL -- or else there would be no gun crime in cities like Washington D.C., New York, Chicago...

If gun control were doing what its proponents assert, why are people robbed, maimed or killed by criminals with guns in those cities? :scrutiny:


-Jeffrey
 
Here's a link to a story you might find interesting:
http://www.kmsp.com/news/story.asp?1640605
This concerns the CCW holding manager of a hardware store about a half mile from my house who used his weapon to foil an armed robbery in the parking lot after locking up his store. Note that this is the only media reference to this incident. Kudos to KMSP for airing it. The Red Star and the other local TV stations never mentioned a word about this even though it resulted in a person (the robber) being shot. God only knows how many other incidents have been swept under the rug while the Red Star was claiming in their editorials that CCWs have not been used for defensive purposes.

Nonq
 
Seems to me the first week Brian Williams took over the newsreader position on NBC he broadcast a story of a robber sticking a gun in the face of a convenience store clerk. He told her to come out from behind the counter. She responded by pulling a handgun and shooting the badguy. All on film, all broadcast to NBC's nightly news audience.
 
"Can he name even one well-docummented incident of someone with one of these new permits who has saved their own, or another's, life because they were armed?"

This has been well covered. Expect him to come back, if he does (there will be a long gap between letters) with something like "That's a nice story, but anecdotes don't prove anything." I know he asked you for anecdotes, but it probably won't matter. I would preface the argument with "Now, I don't set much store by anecdotal stories, but since they seem to be important to the good Doctor. . . ."

" Ask virtually any chief of police. Few of them support this legislation because they know that it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."
1. Chiefs of Police are usually political appointees. They parrot the party line. Sheriffs, who are elected, tend to favor CCW in most states (but not in metro areas, necessarily, and not necessarily in your particular area, so check.)
2. The Law Enforcement Alliance of America is a police professional organization that lobbies actively to extend the RIGHT of concealed carry to all 50 states. Their website is full of good statements on CCW and why good police officers tend to support it, often in direct opposition to their chiefs.
3. AGAIN, if CCW "fails to accomplish" anything at ALL, then it's a wash and what is he so upset about? If things are going to be the same either way, then the course that maximizes personal liberty is the only logical choice.

"Unfortunately, Neither existing laws nor the new legislation make people that much safer. More guns in the hands of the public generally means more homicides between friends, relatives and neighbors, as well as more suicides."
That's just plain untrue. Ask him rhetorically to show any kind of evidence. He can't. He might as well be saying guns spread the AIDS virus and peel your paint. He's basing his argument on a false premise. More guns do NOT cause more suicides, or else gun-free (but culturally suicide-friendly) Japan has more suicide than the U.S.
As far as more homicides between friends, relatives, and neighbors--he's on crack. England has doctors demanding a ban on pointed kitchen knives now. They've outlawed bats in one of the Northern European countries, maybe the Netherlands. These places thought banning guns would solve their homicide and violence problems, too.

By the way, he's running two different threads here. He's arguing for gun bans with some of this stuff and against CCW with others. You might point out that he doesn't even seem to be clear on what the law actually does. A CCW law does NOT put "more guns in the hands of the public."



Just remember not to lose your temper. Don't sound frustrated. YOU WON. You have a fairly clean CCW bill that has survived a Constitutional challenge and been passed TWICE. He's being pretty shrill; you should be the voice of reasonable calm.
 
thanks everyone

I did post this on packing.org as well. I knew you all would help!! Now I'm in the gathering my thoughts stage. I will post my final draft here before it goes out. I have Jeff Synder's book Nation of Cowards in hand!! I still want to hammer the concept of; Is your life worth protecting? If so, who is responsible for protecting it? Should we call you, Scott if we are threatened? I want to force this concept....."sticking to the message"
 
What proponents should assert as the acomplishment of CCW is incremental rights restoration. Crime reduction is just an incidental benefit. The incontrovertable fact that CCW has never resulted in an increase in crime simply shows that there is no downside to this measure of rights restoration.

But that argument probably isn't emotional enough to be persuasive in your case.
 
I strongly agree with Henry. Going the "whose job is it to protect you" route begs him to answer "the police will protect you. Certainly, more guns in more hands will not protect you."

I don't know why anyone in the RKBA movement stresses the self-defense angle as much as one tends to do. It gives the anti's dozens of stock responses--when have you ever needed to defend yourself, handguns are not defensive weapons, more guns just means more to defend yourself against, etc etc. The rights reclamation argument is colder, but more effective--people tend to say just about anything to win a heated argument, but will stop and think about what you're saying in a subdued argument.

Stay away from personal arguments: don't address the other person directly, at all. Don't call him Scott or Doctor. Attack the issue, not the person.

Also, attack his methods of argumentation. Notice he calls you out on not citing instances of CCW owners protecting themselves, and then goes on to say that more CCW permits will increase the rates of friends killing each other, without citing anything to that effect.

Take him up on his advice and talk to police chiefs. Call the station up, tell them you're fact-checking an article for whatever paper it is on CCW issuance, and get him to give you a statement you can use. Then put that in your article: "in order to be sure I wasn't just making this stuff up, I called six of the largest police departments in our state; no one I talked to had ever heard of a homicide between friends where the one with the firearm had a CCW permit for it. They knew of at least seven different instances, however, of a CCW holder defending himself from an armed attacker. Shots were only fired in one of those instances."
 
Can't look for it now, but how about the story of the guy in Texas that gave his life to protect two people he didn't even know. IIRC, the bad guy had an AK or something and went to the courthouse to ambush his wife and kid. This guy saw the whole thing and rushed out and was able to distract the bad guy for long enough so that the cops could finally react. Saved the kid and a bunch of innocents. Got killed for his trouble. THR had a long thread on this one with pics and video.

J
 
"Can he name even one well-docummented incident of someone with one of these new permits who has saved their own, or another's, life because they were armed?"

From MN, CHL and recent even...
http://www.kmsp.com/news/story.asp?1640605

One person who is happy with the state's "permit to carry" law is the owner of a small hardware store in Minneapolis. A man with a gun tried to rob the manager of Camden Hardware in the 48-hundred block of Lyndale Avenue North just after 9 last night. The manager decided to fight back, and it’s not the first time.

At this hardware store in north Minneapolis, owner Andy Lange helps his customers with repairs and home improvement projects. But when it comes to bagging bad guys, Lange and his employees are more do-it-yourself. "I guess they should defend themselves but actively going out and chasing someone in the long run is probably not a good idea."

The store manager was locking up Wednesday night when he noticed a strange car parked across the street. He ran over to his truck, but before he could get there, he was met by a man with a gun pointed right at his face, demanding money. That's when the manager pulled out his own gun and started shooting.The suspect then ran back across the street, got in a vehicle and sped off.

Police caught up with the suspect a short time later at North Memorial where he was being treated for a gunshot wound. Officers also arrested two accomplices who were in the car. The store manager wasn't hurt.

"I think he was very concerned and shook up as somebody would be after something like that. But the way it sounds, he handled himself well and is not a person to mess with."

This isn't the first time workers have foiled an attempted robbery at their store. In November of 2003, Lange and another employee ran after a suspect who robbed the store at knifepoint. They held him until police arrived. "Those people would still be out there and maybe the next person out there might have gotten shot or hurt or whatever, so it is kind of nice that things work out for the good guys."

Lange has no plans to move his business, but he may upgrade the store's security system. As for the store manager, he's enjoying a few well-earned days off. But he's sure to be a shoe-in for “Employee of the Month” when he returns.

"I'm just happy he's OK and hopefully he'll be back soon doing what he does best."

Minneapolis police say the manager does have a legal permit to carry a weapon. Investigators say no charges are expected against him because this appears to be a case of self-defense


" Ask virtually any chief of police. Few of them support this legislation because they know that it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."

From LA:
Penny Brown Roberts
May 2, 2005 Advocate article, archived at:
http://concealcarry.org/archive/2005_05_01_archive.html

But Baker Police Chief Sid Gautreaux said he's changed his mind about the law.

"Since the law has been in effect, we haven't had a bad situation develop because of a person carrying a concealed weapon -- and, in fact, we haven't come across that many," Gautreaux said. "Although I was opposed to it for obvious reasons, I feel better with it now than I did then."


Sgt. Don Kelly of the Baton Rouge Police Department -- who also had initial concerns about the concealed-carry law...

"What really worried me was that we might see rapid escalations of disputes over things like parking spaces," Kelly said. "But I can't think of a single incident that's happened in Baton Rouge, and that speaks well of the people who are carrying the guns."


From Texas (via NCPA policy paper):
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba324/ba324.html

Both John B. Holmes, Harris County district attorney, and Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police Association, initially opposed concealed carry in Texas but have subsequently embraced it. Holmes said, "I . . . [felt] that such legislation . . . present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my initial fears absolutely groundless." And White said, "All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen. . . . I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert."

"Unfortunately, Neither existing laws nor the new legislation make people that much safer. More guns in the hands of the public generally means more homicides between friends, relatives and neighbors, as well as more suicides."

You can't address that last line and keep the letter brief enough to get published. I would let it go since he manages to make an incredibly broad statement covering a topic criminologists have studied for 30 years and still don't fully agree on. However, should the topic come up again in the future take a look at: http://www.guncite.com/
 
So far we have, in Minnesota alone:

* Goalie's DGU (Pioneer Press article here

* Hardware Hank

* On joelr's blog, an Eden Prairie man defended himself against an attack by an irate bicyclist (http://www.ellegon.com/features/data/bingo/). A copy of the police report is included. The Shotgun News wrote it up here.

* In Askov, MN, two auto body shop workers with carry permits captured a murder suspect who was the subject of a manhunt. See here and here for fascinating comparisons of media reports.

(Most outlets seemed to go out of their way to underemphasize the fact that citizens caught him, and when it was reported, they mostly neglected to mention that it was at gunpoint. The one paper, the Strib, that did mention the guns didn't mention that they were permit holders.)

* A homeowner in Lauderdale, MN shot a gun-weilding burglar. Pioneer Press story here

* A Columbia Heights resident drove off four home invaders with a few gunshots - reported in Clayton Cramer's blog here.

That should be a good start. It is almost certain that there are more; these are just all the instances we are aware of.
 
Do a search on Mark Wilson on this site. He was credited by a Law Enforcement Spokesman with saving a life with his CHL. Unfortunately it cost him his own life.
 
Rory Vertigan of Phoenix, Arizona fired his Glock .357 Sig after a Phoenix cop was shot (and killed) by mexican smugglers.

http://www.kc3.com/self_defense/keepsecret.htm

Cops support off-duty concealed carry... *for them*

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27332

Police support Wisconsin carry bill

From State Senator David Zien

John Lott reports a national study showing 3 to 1 police support

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/kansascitystar.html

Note, I have read several article (Texas, Florida) where Chiefs of Police or State Police say something like "I am pleasantly surprised at the success of concealed carry. I didn't think it would work, but..." I've attempted to google them, but got no hits.

Rick
 
"Can he name even one well-docummented incident of someone with one of these new permits who has saved their own, or another's, life because they were armed?"
So, I'd say the answer is "yeah, I can." and begin with the list. Ask if they would prefer it by date or geography.

" Ask virtually any chief of police. Few of them support this legislation because they know that it rarely accomplishes what its proponents assert."
Folks used to support slavery, too. They thought that the sun revolved around the earth. They felt justified in denying facts because "everyone knows" something different. They also encouraged a culture of persecution for intellectual apostates. So, my question to this dip is, "are you willing to bet MY life that you are right? I'm not willing to bet yours."
 
Anecdotal vs Statistics

Agree with the poster who predicted the anti will pooh-pooh anecdotes. But certainly the statistics on gun deaths also fail to support his argument. When looking at these figures, first remove suicides, about half, because suicides with no access to guns find another means. Then remove gun violence by people possessing guns unlawfully. The remaining number is very small, and almost all NDs.
 
my letter....so far

Mr. Magnuson is your life worth protecting? Simple question. If it is, then who is responsible for your protection from crime? Me? the Police? If anyone thinks that that is what the role of law enforcement
is they are mistaken. United States courts have universally ruled that the police have no legal obligation for the personal protection of any one citizen from crime. So what can the good people of Minnesota do to protect themselves from crime? They answered with the Minnesota Personal Protection Act of 2005. Which passed with bipartisan MAJORITES in both the House and the Senate. Period. Your quibbling about what is a true majority reminds me of Mr. Clinton's misunderstanding of what the word is, is.
As for your statement:
"Unfortunately, Neither existing laws nor the new legislation make people that much safer. More guns in the hands of the public generally means more homicides between friends, relatives and neighbors, as well as more suicides."
Mr. Magnuson, where is the blood bath? Your assertion that “the people” in general, are seething cauldrons of homicidal rage ready to go off the deep end at any slight to their dignity is utter nonsense. I don’t fear law-abiding citizens that want to protect themselves from crime…nor should you. I will trust "the People" with their Liberty and Rights more than I will trust the likes you deciding what is best for us.
And yes Mr. Magnusson I can name for you one well-documented incident of someone with a new permit protecting his or her life from crime. He emailed me,: "My name is David Haagensen. I work at Abbott Northwestern. I used my CCW to stop a carjacker last year. It was in the paper." Jim Ragsdale of the Pioneer Press, April 29, 2004, features his story. You can google a search and find it. This was just one person who emailed me willing to share his name. There are many more. I would love to believe in a world where crime is not an issue but this is not the case and Thomas Paine-like common sense has to step in.
And finally, the fastest growing population of new conceal carry permit holders in the 45 states which Minnesota now joins, are women and America’s senior citizens, could it be that while you talk a good game in the classroom, real people are seeking the liberty to obtain real protection from crime?
As far as the Billy Walsh case, the permit holder is a murderer and should be brought to justice. But to use criminal behavior as away to control social behavior, please keep this quote in mind:
"But to ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and
law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own
conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the
law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the
lawless will allow. ... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding."
--Jeff Snyder’s book, Nation of Cowards.

This paper I am sending this letter to does have space-management issues so I cant address every point. And yes is a bit personal....but that me

Also is there a list of the Police organizations that support CC??
 
Well, I think the letter needs some work. Your first paragraph restates the same information in the same format as your original letter. As a result, there is little new meat here to interest either the paper or passing reader.

Your quibbling about what is a true majority reminds me of Mr. Clinton's misunderstanding of what the word is, is.

Can you post the entire text of his response to you? You don't necessarily want to answer every point, especially since space is limited. You just want to make a few good, convincing ripostes that may not convince him but may reach out to others who are reading. Why bring up the Clinton thing and risk offending people who you might reach on guns but who like Clinton?

Also, the letter doesn't flow, it seems disjointed and hard to follow. You quote four different people in your letter (yourself, Magnuson-Martinson, Haagensen, and Snyder) with very little in the way of transitions. By trying to cram so many points into a brief response it comes out being close to unreadable. I think you need to narrow your focus on a single good point that will relate well to the largest number of people and write about that. I wouldn't make a point of quoting him directly in any of your letter... maybe something like this instead:

"Scott Magnuson-Martinson wrote in to ask whether there was one well-documented incident in which a concealed carry permit holder had saved their own or another's life because they were armed. I was writing to inform him there isn't one incident; but many. One example would be David Haagensen. He works at Abbott Northwestern. He used his legally-owned firearm and permit to stop a carjacker last year. This was reported by Jim Ragsdale of the Pioneer Press, April 29, 2004. (try to use the name of the newspaper that is printing this letter if you can)

It is incidents like this that have caused police in other states to reverse their initial opposition to concealed carry laws. These law enforcement officers know first hand that police cannot always prevent a crime and must sometimes respond to one. They know that ultimately a citizen must be able to take responsibility for his own safety and that disarming the law-abiding to control the criminal is an exercise in folly"

This is a short, sweet response that makes your main point well while bringing new information. It notes you are responding to questions/accusations from another letter printed by the paper which hopefully will encourage them to print your response that clarifies those questions. It is small enough to fit in almost anywhere and makes a point that almost anyone anywhere can agree with.
 
I like Bart's reply, but the first sentence should be changed to:

"Scott Magnuson-Martinson wrote in to ask whether there was one well-documented incident in which a concealed carry permit holder had saved a life because he or she was armed. I was writing to inform him there isn't one incident; but many."

Holder is singular, so the pronouns relating to it have to be singular to.

From crewsr's letter, I would remove any references to Clinton, slavery, or women and the elderly: Clinton for the reason Bart stated, slavery because it's becoming the new Nazi, and women and the elderly because it assumes that women and the elderly are less able to defend themself from a man. Many women and elderly would take offense at this statement, and there's no real reason to have it in your letter.

I would start with documenting one to three in-state examples of a CCW holder saving a life, and then move on to a discussion of how you shouldn't deprive responsible citizens of their rights based on the possible actions of the irresponsible. The founding fathers believed that Americans were capable of defending their life, liberty, and property, and recognized their right to do so by enumerating it in our nation's most important document.
 
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