H&Ks vs Sigs and Walther

[sigarms228]

H&K does hate you.

Honestly, this is old outdated news. HK customer service is excellent and has been for a number of years now for the "little guy". I have not needed service myself but have emailed them a couple questions and always got a very helpful reply within a business day. I emailed CZ once and never heard back from them. On the HK forum on the rare incidents where one needs service on an HK the owner has reported fast and prompt service.

 

[Old Dog]

Uh, well, if you're a armorer with a couple hundred H&K pistols on hand and you need help, yeah ... Love that "on the HK forum" ... heh, heh ...

So, edited to add: in my experience, H&K produces reliable, acceptably accurate and exceptionally durable pistols. Often heavy, not always the best in terms of feel, pointability and general ergonomics, but, yeah, better than most. I'm not down on H&K pistols, just think there's some better options out there. (Love their carbines and sub-guns).

 

[CoalTrain49]

H&K has such a dismal share of the market here in the US I'm not sure why they even try to compete. They had a small share of the LE community for a while but all of that changed when they failed to support those dept's with parts and service. The old screw me once your fault, screw me twice my fault syndrome takes effect here.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

H&K has such a dismal share of the market here in the US I'm not sure why they even try to compete. They had a small share of the LE community for a while but all of that changed when they failed to support those dept's with parts and service. The old screw me once your fault, screw me twice my fault syndrome takes effect here.

Really, because I can think of 4 dealers in my area alone that regularly carry HK guns. I know that may not be true everywhere though.

Honestly, the VP9, P30SK, and the P30 in 40 S&W are very competitively priced. I think they may have more of a piece of the market than you realize, but I don't have any data to support that. Are they up there with the other major sellers? I don't know, but I don't think we can assume anything here. They are still in the market, and are focusing more on their civilian market than in the past. They are bringing models to market that are being requested by their civilian market, and the one service request I made was handled exceptionally well and free of charge.

HK may have hated us in the past, but that no longer seems to be the case in my experience. Years pass by, management changes, business practices change with it. While I am not trying to tell anyone how to feel about the HK company, nor what anyone should find to be acceptable pricing, I do think the company and their products deserve serious consideration given the changes that are apparent to more current HK owners.

Buy what you like, and give your money to whom ever treats you the way you want to be treated, but please don't give new shooters or potential new owners the impression that problems from the past are still problems, without any evidence to support it.

 

[RainDodger]

I have a number of choices when I carry... and I'll tell you one thing. I almost always carry my HK USP Compact. It has never, ever, failed to function.

 

[SIGLBER]

H&K's are superb weapons. Every bit as good as SIG or Walther. I only have USP's. The SIG's double action trigger is better. Single action about equal. Yes the H&K's were expensive. But lately their prices have come down. And SIG's are going through the roof. Their are sites where you can order the VP9 for around $500.00. Same on the SK2000. Most of the metal SIG's start at close to $800.00.

 

[sigarms228]

HK is gearing up for the USA civilian market with a new manufacturing facility in Columbus Georgia. That may also help them be more competitive in pricing though with their newer models they have been very competitive. My LGS had about 25 new HKs on display last time I was there. HKs seem pretty popular in this area.

http://hk-usa.com/heckler-koch-expand-columbus-georgia/

 

[CoalTrain49]

Really, because I can think of 4 dealers in my area alone that regularly carry HK guns. I know that may not be true everywhere though.

Almost nonexistent around here. Must be something in the water.

 

[Chuck R.]

Honestly, this is old outdated news. HK customer service is excellent and has been for a number of years now for the "little guy". I have not needed service myself but have emailed them a couple questions and always got a very helpful reply within a business day. I emailed CZ once and never heard back from them. On the HK forum on the rare incidents where one needs service on an HK the owner has reported fast and prompt service.

This has been my experience as well, I've ordered parts direct from HK CS multiple times (Much, much cheaper than other sources) and found them helpful, courteous and quick, even when you're ordering parts that will produce a trigger variant that voids your warranty....

The HK "You suck and we hate you" is old news and based on new models IE the VP9 and VP9SK HK is interested in the civilian market.

Chuck

 

[sota]

all of the brands listed make excellent combat ready firearms. for the average person out there you could blindly pick one and be fine for your lifetime.
having said that, I own several H&K hand guns, and a Beretta 92G. I'd take either into combat with no hesitation. If I had my pick though, it'd be my P30 v3 9mm. It's my preferred carry firearm.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I'm just gonna point out that H&K never breaks 5% representation at the USPSA production nationals (nor any other division, but production is where they would have the best chance). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/h-ks-vs-sigs-and-walther.820930/

The point he is trying to make is H&K is almost universally loved by people who shoot on a casual level. There is nothing wrong with that, but those who shoot handguns on a high level go elsewhere.

 

[sigarms228]

Sure, kind of like SEALs (who use HKs) versus gamers,

 

[NWcityguy2]

You're a SEAL, or just name dropping?

 

[NWcityguy2]

but am I missing something transcendental by not owning an H&K?

From a purely objective stand point, no. The people who focus on what they hit, instead of what they shoot, don't have a preference for HKs over other guns.

From a subjective stand point, it depends on who you ask. The irony with HK is that they are most famous and popular for their sub-guns that none of us have ever shot, but were super popular back in the 80s and 90s. And then you have the expensive firearms from that period too, that truly were over-priced. But because so few people owned them, and the people who did spoke so highly of them, they gained a cult following. They always were considered exclusive, not for their trigger pull, ergonomics or accuracy, but because the people who owned them talked so much about those things that it became generally accepted that they were special and better than cheaper pistols.

If I got an HK, it would be a USP. Not because it is the best gun they make, but it was the ultimate "shooters" gun in my mind, before I became a shooter, or was old enough to buy a handgun. Their newer guns are better, and cheaper, but not as exclusive.

 

[usp9]

If I got an HK...

If you don't own or shoot HKs, why would you comment on that with which you have no personal experience?

 

[herrwalther]

The irony with HK is that they are most famous and popular for their sub-guns that none of us have ever shot, but were super popular back in the 80s and 90s

None of us? Oh I wouldn't go that far. I would say the best sub gun by HK is the MP5-SD, but the one I got to play with didn't have the suppressor.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If I got an HK,

And with that, I stop paying attention.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

My only experience with HK is their USP line. I was shooting an HK USP 45 the other day, actually.

While they are nice shooters, and I appreciate the safety selector options, the triggers do not seem to be all that great and their grips are large and square. I don't really find them all that comfortable to shoot/hold.
I don't think their decockers are as nice as Sigs.

I have zero experience with Walther guns.

I have been shooting Sigs for a number of years now and think the ergos are better.
I prefer the Sig of the HK and have zero experience with Walther.

 

[NWcityguy2]

If you don't own or shoot HKs, why would you comment on that with which you have no personal experience?

Because I've shot HKs on multiple occasions, I've just never owned them. This is the problem with HK enthusiasts, very few of them want to hear an honest opinion, unless that opinion is glowingly positive about how awesome HK pistols are.

 

[Old Dog]

Well, speaking as one who actually was issued H&Ks for serious work for some time, I will state that I barely tolerated the USP-40 and USP-45. In 9mm incarnation, the USP was so huge and overbuilt with such crappy ergonomics and mediocre accuracy, there were simply far better options out there.

Always had a soft spot for the MP-5, though -- a fun gun to train with in particular, though I think these days, I'd just as soon go with a shorty .300 or other AR for an entry weapon.

I've always felt H&K made durable and reliable pistols, but for the same money, I'd personally go elsewhere.

I do find it ironic that two of the guys allegedly responsible for developing the HK-45 -- the improved .45 ACP blaster -- Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers, are unabashed fans of the Glock for carry pistols (although both keep getting custom 1911 makers to put out pistols with their signatures on 'em). Notwithstanding, I like the HK-45.

 

[RPZ]

The point he is trying to make is H&K is almost universally loved by people who shoot on a casual level. There is nothing wrong with that, but those who shoot handguns on a high level go elsewhere.

Just what is "a high level"?

 

[Old Dog]

Just what is "a high level"?

Good question.

Competition? On the highest levels, shooters are sponsored. Does H&K even have a team?

Combat? On the highest level, shooters are issued handguns (and most aren't H&Ks, though the Navy and SOCOM reportedly still has some MK-23s in its inventory).

 

[NWcityguy2]

Just what is "a high level"?

My last 5 competitions I finished; 1st of 15 (IDPA), 6th or 38 (USPSA), 1st of 22 (2-gun),6th of 41 (USPSA), and 2nd or 19 (IDPA). To some, I shoot at a high level. At bigger competitions, I'm just another guy in the top 3rd range. There is no one right answer, but I don't consider "a high level" to only include national level shooters.

 

[FL-NC]

I have no experience with Walther (besides when I carried a PPK years ago) but I have some experience with Sig and HK. I used the 228 (M11) in the military for a bit and I'm quite familiar with the 226. Both excellent pistols, in my opinion superior to the M9. My HK experience includes extensive use of the MK23 and the USP in the military, along with being a HK certified armorer on them. In my opinion, they are superior to the Sigs that I used. They are extreme durable, accurate, and reliable, and in my opinion would also have a longer service life. Some guys i worked with in the navy agree on this. I understand the HK45, P30, and P2000 are similar to the USP handguns, but I don't have any experience with them as they weren't in our unit inventory, in fact all the HK pistols were removed when we began getting Glocks. I would welcome the chance to fire their striker fired pistol just to see how it performs on the range, but I haven't had the opportunity.

 

[Chuck R.]

My last IDPA match (APR) I shot with an HK P30L: 1st SSP (15), 2nd overall (37).

So I guess that means someone is shooting an HK at a "High Level"....right? And what exactly difference it makes is beyond me.

Chuck