H&R Auto Ejecting Issues

[badwithnames]

Hey guys, my father recently picked up a 32 caliber large frame h&r top break which has a strange issue that I was hoping we could get some help with. The cylinder will rise quite high upon breaking the revolver open and can even fall out of the frame quite easily. I've done my best to take helpful pictures but please let me know if you'd like some more.

 

[NMexJim]

So, the cylinder shouldn't rise. Just the ejector assembly. Is there a model number on the revolver? Here is a YouTube link that shows the ejector operation.

Harrington & Richardson H&R Automatic 32 SW antique revolver

Close up video of an old Harrington and Richardson automatic revolver.

youtu.be

Numrich Arms (GunParts.com) has a schematic that looks similar. Interesting piece. I vaguely remember one in the family back in the '50s.

Harrington & Richardson 925 Parts | Numrich

Get your Harrington & Richardson Model 925 revolver parts and more today with Numrich Gun Parts Corp.. America’s leading revolver parts supplier.

www.gunpartscorp.com

 

[badwithnames]

So, the cylinder shouldn't rise. Just the ejector assembly. Is there a model number on the revolver? Here is a YouTube link that shows the ejector operation.

Harrington & Richardson H&R Automatic 32 SW antique revolver

Close up video of an old Harrington and Richardson automatic revolver.

youtu.be

Numrich Arms (GunParts.com) has a schematic that looks similar. Interesting piece. I vaguely remember one in the family back in the '50s.

Harrington & Richardson 925 Parts | Numrich

Get your Harrington & Richardson Model 925 revolver parts and more today with Numrich Gun Parts Corp.. America’s leading revolver parts supplier.

www.gunpartscorp.com

Thanks for the reply, there isn't a model number perse but it is marked "auto ejecting" on the side of the barrel alongside the cartridge (32 s&w). Numrich actually does have a parts list for an auto ejecting top break, however, I'm not entirely sure what part needs to be replaced to correct the issue. I should note that besides the cylinder popping up the gun seems fine mechanically; even the timing is good.

 

[NMexJim]

From one of my books.

 

[Johnm1]

In general the H&R’s have a lug on the barrel and the cylinder has a gap for the lug to pass through allowing the cylinder to move forward all the way. There is a lip on the cylinder that once the lug passes through the gap retains the cylinder as it rotates and through the ejection cycle.

In order to remove the cylinder one pulls back on the cylinder while rotating the cylinder until the lug lines up with the gap on the cylinder and frees the cylinder.

To replace the cylinder you push on the cylinder until the gap lines up. You should be able to feel it when it happens.

So check to see if the cylinder is in all the way. If it is it could only be one of two things.

1. The lip on the cylinder is worn (not likely)
2. The lug on the barrel is worn or broken.

 

[Johnm1]

In general the H&R’s have a lug on the barrel

As I prepared to take pictures of what I described above, I realized what I described was for an Iver Johnson top break. I'll see if I can't retrieve the same information on the H&R.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I think that PDF that Jim from the desert supplied is of a different model. The OP's 3rd pic shows a cylinder friction spring on the cylinder arbor; there's none in the drawing and that is not of a freewheeling cylinder.

Once the cylinder is out, can you push the ejector rod up or is the ejector star frozen in place?

 

[Johnm1]

I still haven’t come up with a definitive procedure for this H&R top break. But as I look closer at the OPs 3rd photograph one can see a course thread on the end of the center pin (some call it an arbor, others like S&W call it a base pin). This should be what retains the cylinder during the ejection cycle. There must be a stud or lip (or less likely a corresponding course thread ) machined into the inside diameter of the cylinder that engages that course thread and prevents the rearward movement of the cylinder when rotated clockwise. To install the cylinder one rotates the cylinder (EDIT MISTAKENLY WROTE COUNTER) clockwise. The course thread is only threaded for a short amount. 1 or 1 1/2 threads. Once the stud or lip travels to the end of the thread it retains the cylinder and won’t come out while the cylinder turns in its normal clockwise direction.

So similar to the IJ described above, I suspect either the threads on the center pin are worn or the stud or lip inside the cylinder is worn.

Now all of that is just a guess and you’d have to confirm how it actually works. And I’m not sure how to fix either at this point.

Before we move on to potentially difficult repairs I’m going to ask a dumb question. Are you sure the cylinder has been installed all the way? I’m pretty sure you said the revolver was in nice shape and wear on either the threads or inside the cylinder wouldn’t be expected on a lower usage revolver.

As you rotate the cylinder counterclockwise You’ll feel it when the stud or rim clears the course thread and the cylinder will be able to move slightly forward/backwards when it is installed all the way.

 

[Johnm1]

I forgot that I own a H&R Premier in 32 S&W made sometime around 1908-1913 and it looks very much like thr OPs. Aat least the cylinder retaining is the same.



I can confirm what I wrote above. The threaded part of the center pin engages the inside of the cylinder. I can't close the revolver unless the cylinder is in the fully forward, locked in, position. So if you can close the revolver and the cylinder still pops out, I'd strongly suspect that either the threads are worn ot the inside of the cylinder is worn. The center pin is replaceable. Not easy but doable. If the inside of the cylinder is worn im not sure there is a repair. But replacement is an option. Maybe one of the true gunsmiths can think of something to repair the cylinder.

Here is my center pin

 

[Johnm1]

I'm still learning about H&R revolvers, the 'Auto Ejecting' model was different model than my 'Premier' thogh they appear superficially the same the overlapped production for quite a while. Sure wish we still had Bill Goforth to talk to. I really need to buy his books. Here is what I can find on the 'Auto Ejecting' model.

From https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/h-r-32-auto-ejecting-top-break.80070/

AUTOMATIC EJECTING THIRD MODEL
(SMOKELESS POWDER)----------------------------------1905-1940
Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W Long, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available, top of barrel markings include company name and address and early production has patent dates, the one recognizable difference in the Second and Third Models is the caliber is marked on the left side of the barrel on the Third Model “IF IT HAS A CALIBER MARKED ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER”
First Variation 4 patent dates (5-14 & 8-6-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-97) model name and caliber on left side of barrel ---1905-1908
Second Variation 2 patent dates (8-6-89 and 10-8-95) model name and caliber on left side of barrel ---1909-1912
Third Variation no patent dates the name of the state is marked as MASS----1913-1915
Fourth Variation no patent dates the state name of Massachusetts is spelled---1916-1924
Fifth Variation new grip frame, it is now the same size as the rest of the frame with no step down for the grip panel—1925-1941
After 1931 listed in Catalogs as: AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 10 .32 S&W LONG CALIBER 6 shots and AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 25 .38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
After 1932 38 caliber iis listed in Catalogs as: AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 20..38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
VALUE: 100%=$235 60%=$85 For all Auto-Ejecting 3rd Models; add 75% premium for 2½” barrel; add 25% for 4”, 5” & 6” barrels; add 15% for blue finish;

 

[Johnm1]

Before we delve into replacing hard parts, let's step back a d consider if there's an easy fix. As I look at mine, there is a projection on the bottom of the top latch that is intended to retain The cylinder. For all I know that is the primary way to retain the cylinder. As I see it, even if the threaded center pin isn't working the projection on the bottom of the top latch should. I don't think that would be correct, but it seems to me it would be both functional and safe. Here are a couple of very poor photographs of the bottom of mine.









Just a thought. What do others think?

 

[Kp321]

Ding,ding, ding. That is more than likely the problem.

 

[Johnm1]

Ding,ding, ding. That is more than likely the problem.

That can only be part of the problem. I can lift the latch out of the way but the course thread still holds the cylinder in place.